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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Sagngrael View Post
    To everyone saying non raiders need to be able to farm heroics for the prior tier so they can get into raiding post release: did none of you play this game during vanilla and BC? I didn't start raiding until T2, and the grind to get my FR gear for MC, and then get my T1, so I could get into a guild doing T2 content, was long and time consuming. But that same grind made me value my gear 500% more than running a heroic once a day for a few months. Not to mention at that point there were guilds that suited just about everyone's abilities. If you weren't quite good enough for upper tier raiding, you just stayed in a guild that did lesser raids. If you didn't raid, you stayed in a leveling/social guild. Why do the social players need to raid and obtain tier? I decided to raid after seeing a warrior standing in SW wearing full T1, and I though it was the most amazing thing ever. At that point I had two purples, one of them my Krol Blade, and the other a drop I had gotten after lucking into a UBRS run. Epics were just that, epic. Epics are the new blues, and we're all worse off for it.

    And to those claiming their lack of time is why they need this ability to obtain easy epics and tier: Skunkworks (US). No more than 8 hours a week of raiding and they've downed H LK25. If you're running a heroic once a day you already have close to that amount of free time to spend in WoW. And if you don't have that amount of free time, you're never going to raid, so you have zero need for raiding gear other than to make heroics easier, thereby letting you farm them faster for more gear to farm them faster. You're doing the same content over and over, do you really need full tier to do that?

    And honestly, at the end of the day, I don't care who has what piece of gear, regardless of how difficult or easy it is to obtain. But the side effect of the daily heroic giving valor points is once again ensuring that raiders are going to need to run the heroic every day to remain competitive. That extra tier piece over 1 month across 10/25 players is considerable. Anyone that is lacking in time should hate this, because if you DO want to start raiding, it ensures that not only do you need to put in raid time, you need to run a daily heroic to stay in a progression guild. I hated it in T10/11, and apparently we'll continue the same grind. Honestly, if Blizz wants everyone to have some tier gear, just reward everyone with that 75 Valor points every day for logging in and checking our mail. Everyone wins right?
    As somebody who started playing WoW on vanilla release day, yeah I thoroughly remember those times and vastly prefer the current emblem/point reward set up. Why? Because the ability to rapidly gear up a player to be raid ready matters a TON. You didn't mention what guild you screwed over that geared you up with your T1 just so you could dump them and move on. Most of the guilds that were stuck on lower tier content weren't doing them because that was all they wanted to do, it was because they kept getting set back by losing their most geared players to the more advanced guilds who needed to fill holes in their roster caused by burnout, flunking out of school, spouses threatening divorce, etc etc.

    Personally, I play to raid. I do not want my raid to run into a brick wall because the available character pool of replacements is tiny because it is too time consuming for the majority of players to gear up. Why does gear mean a lot less emotionally to most folk now than it does in vanilla? Well it should be pretty obvious by now that all gear is transitory. Odds are any active toon will replace most of their gear every 6 months or so. Getting all misty eyed over individual pieces is kind of pointless given that fact.

    Do I think heroics should be faceroll easy? Absolutely not. Cata heroics require you to know your class. If the valor point earned-per-week cap is set low enough that almost all raiders can hit the cap through raiding alone the Cata heroics will STAY hard because the majority of people who seriously outgear them with raid gear just won't be running them. Under those conditions, people who have built up gear sets out of heroics really will have earned them.

    EDIT: What matters most to serious raiders is skill, translated as what you've managed to do and when you managed to do it. This is as it should be. No matter what gear the vast majority of players have or can get, the hardest encounters of the game are still going to be beyond most, at least within the current expansion.
    Last edited by Sollia; 2010-10-08 at 09:03 AM.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by yellowbiz View Post
    I'm not too sure about Heroics awarding the same as Raids.. we'll have to see how it is in action first
    Cataclysm raids don't award the same as Heroics, Justice Points are different from Valor points.

    And if you meant Lich King heroics giving the same points as Lich King raids....well, it's simply to prepare ungeared people for new content like they do with every new tier.

  3. #243
    I'd like to ask...are your Justice points goning to be RESET once you outgrow a content, or they gonna stay...

  4. #244
    Look I'm not trying to troll anyone, but I'm a raider, that's what i do, its the only thing fun in this game to me. I'm trying to understand it from the point of view, of someone who doesn't raid but still wants raiding gear.
    you raid to get gear, no matter what anyone says that's the underlying reason for being there, its your incentive, so why should raid gear be available to people who don't raid. i also understand that Blizz doesn't care about raiders, only money so they will continue to give away free gear.
    I like to stand out, when you see me on my server, you know i raid, you can tell i know what I'm doing by the gear I'm wearing. you heroics runners say you deserve the gear we are wearing but don't we deserve something to ourselves?

    looking for honest answers here no jk
    -tehsklatt

  5. #245
    I'm content in my lower tier gear, since I don't raid.
    Nothing against it, just don't have the time.

  6. #246
    You can't buy level 85 gear with JP if you are level 80. So even if you were gaining JP faster than everyone else, you'd have no way of accumulating/spending it. Also, guice, 10/25man lockout does not affect 5man H rewards....... this thread discusses the JP earned from raids as well. Maybe you should read the the OP before making fun of people.

  7. #247
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TehSklatt View Post
    Look I'm not trying to troll anyone, but I'm a raider, that's what i do, its the only thing fun in this game to me. I'm trying to understand it from the point of view, of someone who doesn't raid but still wants raiding gear.
    you raid to get gear, no matter what anyone says that's the underlying reason for being there, its your incentive, so why should raid gear be available to people who don't raid. i also understand that Blizz doesn't care about raiders, only money so they will continue to give away free gear.
    I like to stand out, when you see me on my server, you know i raid, you can tell i know what I'm doing by the gear I'm wearing. you heroics runners say you deserve the gear we are wearing but don't we deserve something to ourselves?

    looking for honest answers here no jk
    -tehsklatt
    Right.. you asked for a honest answer..so here it is: (It isn't hard to come up with it yourself and also ppl like me have been trying to hammer it out on the forums..but here goes)

    -people quit the game due to RL reasons
    -people do not all buy the game on release date
    -ppl get sick, break arms, suffer diseases
    -people burn out, quit, die..you name it
    -people join late..in short, not everybody joins at day 1 and plays day in day out. Some due to issues that are beyond their control.

    So you may assume, that the people who try to GET raiding gear WANT to raid. The great thing is (incidentally since Early 2008 when Isle of QD was released in TBC): Now when somebody returns to the game who has lost contact due to any of the above reasone, he can now gear up on his own without imposing on a guild and THEN JOIN THE RAIDS..instead of forcing his guild to go back to old raidcontent and gear him up. Or forcing him to find 24 equally delayed players who may or may not exist on his server.

    It really is so easy...don't assume that ppl who do not raid want or need raidgear...just assume they WANT to raid..and that is why they gear up for it. The items gathered from running endless heroics MOSTLY granted you quick full gear of the tier below the current raid tier. Ilv 232 and 245 from Triumph emblems without limit, but raiders had ilv 251-264 while doing current tiers.

    To gear yourself fully in Frost emblems, you needed 600 emblems. WITHOUT raiding, your 7 weekly heroics supplied you with 14. Your Voa and weekly raid (which actually were raids) supplied you with another 7.

    That would have been anything between 30 and 40 weeks to gear outside raids. That is a FACT. So why the hell do ppl moan if somebody even decides he will spend 40 weeks outside raids to get gear that we others, inside our raids get faster AND of higher quality WHILE HAVING EVEN MOAR FUN?.

    Do you ask why some guy drives a Porsche that goes 220 in the city? Do you really need 3 TVs in your home? Do you only do things because they absolutely make sense? Do you need 73 different flavoured chewing gums in your life? Why the hell do you need to apply rules that are fit for prisons or totaitarian regimes to a bloody video game and to people you don't know or don't even play with?

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnywasy..that said...I am standing right now at the Justice and Valor quartermaster and you can save all your buckets of tears because the system continues as it did in WotLK. between 700 and 1600 valor points for relics, cloaks, gauntlets and others.Those points come indeed ALSO from doing heroic dungeons as the newspage of this topic tells us.

    Tier gear CURRENTLY only comes from tokens dropping in raids. That is fair enough. But it will very likely become available for Justice or Valor points when the next tier of raidgear is released.

    What did you expect when Blizzard said "The Wrath system of raiding was a success"?
    Last edited by det; 2010-12-01 at 07:07 PM.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  8. #248
    Tier gear CURRENTLY only comes from tokens dropping in raids. That is fair enough. But it will very likely become available for Justice or Valor points when the next tier of raidgear is released.
    Decided to skim your post to see if it was worth reading fully and came across this that showed me it isnt. What would be great is if before you post you knew what you were talking about, especially when it comes to cata, JP and VP.

    I am standing right now at the Justice and Valor quartermaste
    T11 is NOT only from tokens. It is tokens AND 3/5 can be bought with valor points. i know it sounds cool when you say your actually doing something, but i can tell your not standing there when you posted this. how? cause I'm actually there and here is why. Yes i know, i looked at more then the first page of a vendors loot. shame on me.





    not the greatest image but its just to illustrate the point. As you can see, for the right price you can buy Chest, Legs and Gloves T11 for VP. When T12 is released any items bought with VP become purchasable with JP. Now the only thing we don't know yet is if they will put the Helm/Shoulders in for JP as well.
    Last edited by Evilmonkey; 2010-12-01 at 10:44 PM.
    Death Knights are good for one thing. Bank Alts. Nothing more.

  9. #249
    Some stated that there wont be 3 lvl of tiers only 2 so if 1 drops from normal and other from hc we're good these points will be nice to buy accesories till we arent well geared and some Boe items might help alts also . Not entirely sure about the only 2 tier lvls as the pictures show 3 but 3rd could be a non set item wich looks like the tier as it was in wotlk different color tho.

  10. #250
    what picture shows 3 different lvls of T11? the picture from the previous poster? no, it shows 1 lvl of T11 per item on that page, but it shows items for 3 different talent speccs.

  11. #251
    Blademaster
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    Details, details, what's a 5 between friends? :P

  12. #252
    The Insane det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilmonkey View Post
    Decided to skim your post to see if it was worth reading fully and came across this that showed me it isnt. What would be great is if before you post you knew what you were talking about, especially when it comes to cata, JP and VP.


    T11 is NOT only from tokens. It is tokens AND 3/5 can be bought with valor points. i know it sounds cool when you say your actually doing something, but i can tell your not standing there when you posted this. how? cause I'm actually there and here is why. Yes i know, i looked at more then the first page of a vendors loot. shame on me.


    not the greatest image but its just to illustrate the point. As you can see, for the right price you can buy Chest, Legs and Gloves T11 for VP. When T12 is released any items bought with VP become purchasable with JP. Now the only thing we don't know yet is if they will put the Helm/Shoulders in for JP as well.
    Well, give me a break. As you said you skimmed my post and found a couple of things that were wrong. Sue me. The point I was trying to make is that the system introduced in TBC and continued through WotLk will (despite all the QQ that is shed) continue in Cataclysm (though again it is refined and adjusted a bit). Raidgear can also be obtained by doing 5 mans and getting points there - I was in fact checking the JP and VP Quartermasters for that. What item for what cost is secondary to me atm, so beg your pardon that I overlooked a couple of pieces.

    So people can nerdrage all they want about "raidgear should only come from raids" or "the death of tiered and progressive raiding" - if they feel so strongly about it and hoped Catclysm would revert to the very old system of Classic and the first half of TBC...it isn't happening.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    One cause is a cognitive bias called projection bias. Essentially living inside your own head your entire life makes it exceedingly difficult to understand how others do not also live your same life, think your same thoughts, and hold your same beliefs. In many cases it's quite frustrating to try to empathize and understand why you yourself may not be the center of the universe, which generally results in one 'acting out' in various ways.
    So, in short: the internet.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Zamiel View Post
    Wow only 25 more points for 25 man I was expecting alot more I feel sorry for them.
    25points pr boss give a huge bonus for a good progressing guild

    We got magmaw, defense, atramedes, chimaeron and maloriak on 25man farm now in blackwing and conclave of wind, that's 6x25 pr week, next will probably be halfus 25man, more importantly we are now capable of easily achieveing VP cap each week. Also there are more drops on 25man, and bigger chance someone needs it.

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