Ret mobility buff coming...

[Thumos]

Sounds like they will probably allow cleanse to dispel snares when used on self. The posts is actually a bit ambiguous on certain topics so have fun speculating :P

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...geNo=1&sid=1#8

[Straton]

!!!!!

[Monath]

Meh, the "cleansing snares" thing could be interesting depending on how they decide to go about it. It just really sucks that we still aren't going to be getting a real gap closer, although I suppose if the "cleansing snares" mechanic is designed well enough we might actually get some good usage out of LAotL.

[Lothaeryn]

This one change alone could balance a few things for ret in PVP, i hope it gets implemented.

[Badpaladin]

HOLY GOD PLEASE DO THAT

I think this guy sums up my feelings....perfectly.

[Talen]

Sounds like they will probably allow cleanse to dispel snares when used on self. The posts is actually a bit ambiguous on certain topics so have fun speculating :P

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...geNo=1&sid=1#8

Again with the interesting mechanics.

Why don't they just admit Ret needs either proper in-combat mobility or a way to get around it. Self cleansing of snares, etc wasn't a great workaround for the past few years and letting it continue only creates yet another exception to the norm - and exceptions and "interesting" mechanics often have a way of backfiring.

Really liked the answer about rets being a "team player" - looks like they are intent on Rets being a support class. That explains a lot.

EJL

[raziel083]

Again with the inetersting mechanics.

Why don't they just admit Ret needs either proper in combat mobility or a way to get around it. Self cleansing of snares etc wasn't a great workaround for the past few years and letting it continue only creates yet another exception to the norm - and exceptions and "interesting" mechanics often have a way of backfiring.

Really liked the answer about rets being a "team player" - looks like they are intent on Rets being a support class. That explains a lot.

EJL

It also contradicts their goal to make us more offensive. They took away things like cleanse, and sacred shield because of that. In exchange...nah not getting into it, no mood to get worked up again. Being a team player means more utility, more utility with ret to them equaled "we cannot give ret more, because they have such strong defensive utility." I CONFUSED AND FRUSTRATED!!! HALP!!

Edit: We are in such bad shape now, that giving us that cleanse ability = a step in the right direction.

As far as that whole thing he got into with a possible non-dispellable HoF? Its an easy fix to not make it op. Lower the duration, up the cd. Realistically though...with still yet a real gap closer, i wouldn't think it would be op as it exist as it becoming non-dispellable. I would take that and having cleanse back and be happy....even if it doesn't pull you out of a stun anymore.

At this stage....I AM THE MOUSE THAT'S WILLING TO TAKE JUST THE COOKIE...I PROMISE I WONT ASK FOR MILK!!!!

[Thumos]

Again with the inetersting mechanics.

Why don't they just admit Ret needs either proper in combat mobility or a way to get around it. Self cleansing of snares etc wasn't a great workaround for the past few years and letting it continue only creates yet another exception to the norm - and exceptions and "interesting" mechanics often have a way of backfiring.

Really liked the answer about rets being a "team player" - looks like they are intent on Rets being a support class. That explains a lot.

EJL

I agree that using cleanse as a mobility tool in the past was a bad solution; however since cleanse will now target roots/snares only it may actually become quite a bit more reliable.

[Alixie]

Why cant they just let ret keep the old (current) Cleanse mechanic? I mean it sounds like they're being overly cautious not to make Ret overpowered. Anyone's that on ptr knows for a fact, ret is far from being op. Casters and DKs and Rogues, have so many kinds of debuffs and dispels to use against paladins, and everything in our arsenal has been neutered or taken away.

[Thumos]

It also contradicts their goal to make us more offensive. They took away things like cleanse, and sacred shield because of that. In exchange...nah not getting into it, no mood to get worked up again. Being a team player means more utility, more utility with ret to them equaled "we cannot give ret more, because they have such strong defensive utility." I CONFUSED AND FRUSTRATED!!! HALP!!

Yeah, they really seem to be running in circles when it comes to balancing Ret, just like they always have. I wish they would grow some balls and just give us Tirion's leap attack that they blatantly taunted us with at the beginning of WotLK.

[Badpaladin]

It also contradicts their goal to make us more offensive. They took away things like cleanse, and sacred shield because of that. In exchange...nah not getting into it, no mood to get worked up again. Being a team player means more utility, more utility with ret to them equaled "we cannot give ret more, because they have such strong defensive utility." I CONFUSED AND FRUSTRATED!!! HALP!!

To be fair, the meme that "beta is beta anything can change huurrr" holds true here. Just because they stated they wanted something to work one way doesn't really mean it will necessarily follow that way. As it stands we're far more powerful as offhealers that can help pressure here and there, and if that's what they want for ret then so be it. These changes indicate that we'll be getting some self utility, thus making us more offensive, but it doesn't change much right now.

[JohnnyTKF]

Oh god, please, PLEASE do that! Like Badpaladin said, that post summed up my feelings, and the feelings of 90% of the Ret pallies here :P

[Alixie]

Not to double post but I seriously hate that I cannot Cleanse magic DoTs off myself. DoTs are doing a ton of damage by themselves, Im spending most of the time trying to heal through it with puny heals that make me oom fast, then Im a sitting duck.

I dont know if they thought wed be swimming in holy power that those mana free WoG's would make up for no shield, instant flash of lights, and Cleanse, ON TOP of dealing enough damage with TV. A three holy power buffed TV, since 2 is way too weak.

Im just so unhappy with the ret pally changes, honestly things were good before the whole re-work. I liked it and still do.

[Varabently]

Cleanse will still be very expensive for ret.

[Ronark]

Cleanse will still be very expensive for ret.

They could tack a mana reduction talent into, say, Guardian's Favor.

[Mancowski]

I had already stripped Cleanse off my bar and was planning on putting inquisition there, hah.

Now I may not have too!

Edit: Also just thought about it costing 700 mana at the current level cap. Thats bad.

[Talen]

I agree that using cleanse as a mobility tool in the past was a bad solution; however since cleanse will now target roots/snares only it may actually become quite a bit more reliable.

The problem then is that it still doesn't address mobility. Cleanse and HoF never did. What they did do was prevent the target slowing you down that easily. Both worked as abilities to stay in melee range but neither really worked to get you there. Unfortuantely, its getting there that is the real problem and the issue that compounds Rets issues. Solve that, and a lot (not all) of what ails Ret vanishes. LAotL still doesn't strike me as being an ideal solution, but far more situational and more beneficial for PvE. And this will be ...what? the second? third?...patched in fix to overcome LAotLs shortcomings.

I recognise that these buffs are important and useful...but at the same time, they are putting in a lot of effort into the class and ultimately solving nothing. Regressing the class from LKs DPS role to TBCs support healer with RNG based DPS isn't that great an idea.

EJL

[Onemind]

Yeah, they really seem to be running in circles when it comes to balancing Ret, just like they always have. I wish they would grow some balls and just give us Tirion's leap attack that they blatantly taunted us with at the beginning of WotLK.

I absolutely agree! And you worded it so elegantly! I loled. But that would solve so much!

[Draseum]

are rets the only melee that are finding it hard to get to those ranged classes, and i agree that this or any sort of mechanic which would allow us to get rid of these snares would be amazing because from what they've said, if they want rets to be passing HoF around. Making that our only hope of reaching a ranged class is not the way to go about it....

[underdogba]

This portion of GC's comments really caught my attention -

"(As I have referenced before, one of our goals around Ret PvP is to make the spec more of a team player and less of a guy who has an answer for everything.)"

"...answer for everything"? What do they currently answer?

I'm not typically a wanton GC-basher, but does he really understand how arena works? There's no such thing as a "team player". It's about cc/movement-impairing and counters. This generalized "team player" thing doesn't exist.

Even in live, in real competitive pvp situations, Ret counters absolutely nothing. The only thing ret brings to an arena comp is the possibility of burst damage, and the "utility" of being something for the other team to spend time focus firing down. In 4.0.x/beta, Ret loses survivability and the modicum of utility it currently has (backup cc cleanser?), and yet in a blue post, they made the comment that if ret is able to bring out its burst damage in pvp against you, then you're doing it wrong. What exactly does ret bring to the table in pvp then? In the present form, it appears absolutely nothing.