State of Feral PvP

[Bobzor]

Again: feral may be too weak. I'm not sure, I just find them incredibly irritating.
But the point is: if the amount of druids is the same as the amount of mages, then the amount of druids and the amount of mages past 2k (for instance) should be the same.
Now, 90% of those druids are resto, so course there won't be that many ferals.

This. I'm sure a lot of those 2,8 rated resto druids could manage to pull out a respectable rating if they were forced to play feral ;P

[Razac]

A kitties closest class is a rogue, kitties have nothing that make rogues viable, and what kitties DO have isnt good enough (its just the nature of the class, its like taking away a rogues kick, vanish, blind and cloak and seeing how he does)

Hopefully the simplified rotation and skull bash will help a bit, and I guess having such a large hp pool, kiting, bleeding and hotting will be a neat tactic...just need to watch the mana.

[Togepii]

This. I'm sure a lot of those 2,8 rated resto druids could manage to pull out a respectable rating if they were forced to play feral ;P

i'm sure most tried. most failed.

onaw, for example (2600 rated resto) tried feral in 2s, he managed to get stuck at 1700 even with top end feral gear he got from arenaing as resto

spoh once tried feral, half a day later, he went back to resto

the closest to a resto druid succeeding as feral is when they get the BiS tanking staff and go feral tanking with it.

trust me, asking a resto druid to play a feral is akin to asking a stock broker perform heart surgery.

[Alski]

The removal of the -Crit% portion on resilience is a step in the right direction, along with a few other things coming in cata. Arena might finally be a fun place for ferals but BG's/world pvp is still where its at for ferals.

[K4ge]

Spoh was merciless glad as feral O.o

[Bobzor]

Spoh was merciless glad as feral O.o

No, This guy is saying he failed at it, can't you read?

[Balduvian]

Now, 90% of those druids are resto, so course there won't be that many ferals.

Yes but if 90% of them would be Feral, their representation would obviously be better but they would remain a rare sight on 2k+ ratings.

Also, the fact that 90% of them are Resto (and Balance) is due to the fact that both those specs are incredibly good, but also due to the fact that Feral just isn't (not only due to the fact that it isn't populair).

This. I'm sure a lot of those 2,8 rated resto druids could manage to pull out a respectable rating if they were forced to play feral ;P

As Togepii said, I'm sure alot of them actually tried and failed badly. In fact, I can tell you that a 2.8k rated Resto Druid would have a pretty hard time reaching ~2.1k as Feral.

[Togepii]

Spoh was merciless glad as feral O.o

I only have knowledge about WotLK, only started late s5. I know Spoh tried feral in mid s6 but went back to resto almost as quickly.

[Zheryn]

There aren't many ferals around that plays arena and they for sure ain't the best class and probably have a hard time at high rating (like 2,5k+), but played correctly and with right setups anything under that shouldn't really be a problem.

My BG may not be the best but I hit 2250 in 2s and 2150 in 3s with my feral this season and it's my first season playing arena and I haven't played alot so can't say I'm good at all.

An experienced player with good gear (WTS 226 trinket?) shouldn't really have a problem getting up towards 2,5k, it can't be right that only 5 ferals did get weapon on BG9?

[Togepii]

There aren't many ferals around that plays arena and they for sure ain't the best class and probably have a hard time at high rating (like 2,5k+), but played correctly and with right setups anything under that shouldn't really be a problem.

My BG may not be the best but I hit 2250 in 2s and 2150 in 3s with my feral this season and it's my first season playing arena and I haven't played alot so can't say I'm good at all.

An experienced player with good gear (WTS 226 trinket?) shouldn't really have a problem getting up towards 2,5k, it can't be right that only 5 ferals did get weapon on BG9?

the level of difference between bg9 and other bgs such as emberstorm is in fact, quite staggering. most gladiators migrating over have a hard time breaking 2.4k.

on another note, there is only 1 feral druid upward of 2.5k, talason. the rest are all sub 2.4k.

and yes, there are only 5, and they are all listed on the first post

edit: mjolnir runestone, despite being ilvl 226, is considered by many to be better than multiple 245 trinkets. mjolnir runestone is in fact better than DV and DBW if you're at arp hard cap. that being said, some pointers: get the scarlet onslaught cloak, shadowslayer's vault cloak's haste is a stat dump, ditch the seal of many mouths, expertise again is a wasted stat. GET HIT CAP ffs. also, you only need about 45% crit in caster form to be sufficient, i suggest gemming for some arp since you're using MRS

[Usernameisvalid]

The state of feral pvp.....F--king ridiculous

i've been playing feral for 5 years, and our mobility and survivalbility has dropped significantly each patch.
With wotlk came spammable snare which has hindered ferals (once advantage)mobility, everytime i fight deathknights,paladins,mages,hunters,rogues,warriors i get snared everysingle second which forces me to powershift everysingle second and because global cooldowns i am unable to attack.

Frostmages- the most annoying class in the entire game, in the average minute duel i will be frost novaed around 20 times

Deathknights- Descreation procs + chains of ice spam 0% movement speed, extremly easy to kite feral druids

Ret paladins- Snare that we can't shift out of, extremly easy to kite feral druids

Hunters- aoe frost trap, disengage and deterance everytime you get close to them

Survivalbility.

Shadowpriest require no skill whatsoever to kill a feral druid, with 1400 resilience all the dots together tocl around 2-8k per second, if we don't get a quick kill and the fight last longer than 20 seconds we will die.

with the nerf of bear, 1400 resilience a rogue can get me down to 60% health in one 8 second stunlock, well using barkskin aswell and with a base 40k+ health. The rogues constant slow on attack inhibits me from getting behind the rogue... so with double evasion impossible to do anydamage, if i kite with roots the diminishing returns will go away and ill get full 8 second stunlock again before i can get any distance and heal.

Ret paladins- Hammer of justice down to 40% health.

How to fix??

Give feral druids a spell similar too"Hands of freedom", give a spell named"duck" dodges all incomming spell damage.
MMMoarrr armour

Make it more like the vanilla feral days.... where i could use Line of sight, unlike nowadays run behind a pillar CHAINS OF ICE CHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICE

Oh yeah line of sighted 1 out of 10 frost bolts

[Zarghol]

The clearly biggest nerf to ferals come cata is the fact they renamed Nom Nom Nom. =(

Anyways, ferals are a pretty complex class, but I often jump into it for a bit just because it's so fun when executed right. Sometimes I even regret maining my warrior over my feral, but hey, what can a chap with too little time do. Props to all you ferals out there though, keep on playing. At least you'll always be the cool druids!

[Zheryn]

the level of difference between bg9 and other bgs such as emberstorm is in fact, quite staggering. most gladiators migrating over have a hard time breaking 2.4k.

on another note, there is only 1 feral druid upward of 2.5k, talason. the rest are all sub 2.4k.

and yes, there are only 5, and they are all listed on the first post

Thanks for the reply! Okey, I'm not very much in to PvP so don't know much about the differences of BGs, sounds kinda lame that there's so big difference between them. I guess I would have no chance at getting weapon there, in fact I didn't even get it on my BG.

edit: mjolnir runestone, despite being ilvl 226, is considered by many to be better than multiple 245 trinkets. mjolnir runestone is in fact better than DV and DBW if you're at arp hard cap. that being said, some pointers: get the scarlet onslaught cloak, shadowslayer's vault cloak's haste is a stat dump, ditch the seal of many mouths, expertise again is a wasted stat. GET HIT CAP ffs. also, you only need about 45% crit in caster form to be sufficient, i suggest gemming for some arp since you're using MRS

Well I can't say there are many trinkets that are better than Mjolnir but that's mostly because there are so few trinkets around. And for DPS atleast, Mjolnir is never better than DV, WFS or DBW, atleast in PvE so I don't see why it should be better than any of them in PvP either? . I haven't got the chance to get either of those 3, hope trinkets won't be that much harder to get than rest of the gear in cata.

Again, I'm a PvE player so correct me if I'm wrong but you need to have quite some Arp already on the gear to make it a better stat DPS-wise over agility, and since I would have like 1 item with Arp on if I switched cloak it wouldn't be that great, and the fact that I loose dodge, armor, crit, and +healing from agility too. Only gemming for a few Arp gems doesn't really seem like a great idea to me.

I usually have another ring with hit on so I have over 5% hit.

[Togepii]

Thanks for the reply! Okey, I'm not very much in to PvP so don't know much about the differences of BGs, sounds kinda lame that there's so big difference between them. I guess I would have no chance at getting weapon there, in fact I didn't even get it on my BG.




Well I can't say there are many trinkets that are better than Mjolnir but that's mostly because there are so few trinkets around. And for DPS atleast, Mjolnir is never better than DV, WFS or DBW, atleast in PvE so I don't see why it should be better than any of them in PvP either? . I haven't got the chance to get either of those 3, hope trinkets won't be that much harder to get than rest of the gear in cata.

Again, I'm a PvE player so correct me if I'm wrong but you need to have quite some Arp already on the gear to make it a better stat DPS-wise over agility, and since I would have like 1 item with Arp on if I switched cloak it wouldn't be that great, and the fact that I loose dodge, armor, crit, and +healing from agility too. Only gemming for a few Arp gems doesn't really seem like a great idea to me.

I usually have another ring with hit on so I have over 5% hit.

Mjolnir is in fact better than DBW if you're breaching ArP hardcap, as DBW will have 'wasted stats/procs'.

In PvP dynamics, DV is better than DBW and WFS. Infact, N DV is better than H DBW and H WFS.

You have an ArP trinket, and you already have more than sufficient crit. It's the same philosophy as if you have low ArP gear, use DV, if you have high ArP gear, go for MRS. As you said, you're a PvE player, and you should know that ArP only gets better until hardcap. It's the opposite of diminishing returns, tbh. Why waste stat scores into haste and expertise(totally useless stats in PvP) when you could get more ArP and make your trinket and overall build more efficient instead? The dodge/armor/crit and +healing you lose will be so minimal you won't even notice the difference, but the damage you pump out onto plate/mail classes will be significantly higher.

[Zheryn]

Mjolnir is in fact better than DBW if you're breaching ArP hardcap, as DBW will have 'wasted stats/procs'.

In PvP dynamics, DV is better than DBW and WFS. Infact, N DV is better than H DBW and H WFS.

U be trollin' mon?

Mjolnir is never better than those 2 especially NOT near Arp hard cap since it's Mjolnir that procs Arp and will have 'wasted stats/procs', DBW procs agi etc = never wasted.

DBW is better than DV because of the higher stats proc and 30 sec proc.

And yeah, Arp gets better the more you got until hard cap that's why Mjolnir holds me back so much in PvE since I can't gem for Arp in PvE since I'm at soft cap already, so it would be a huge boost to get DBW to be able to gem Arp that is a better stat in PvE where it's not hard to reach soft cap. In PvP tho it's imo too hard to reach any good numbers of Arp as feral druid to make it worth gemming.

Arp gone in two days anyway so guess it's not a big deal :P

[kitsuneklaw]

The state of feral pvp.....F--king ridiculous

i've been playing feral for 5 years, and our mobility and survivalbility has dropped significantly each patch.
With wotlk came spammable snare which has hindered ferals (once advantage)mobility, everytime i fight deathknights,paladins,mages,hunters,rogues,warriors i get snared everysingle second which forces me to powershift every single second and because global cooldowns i am unable to attack.

Frostmages- the most annoying class in the entire game, in the average minute duel i will be frost novaed around 20 times

Deathknights- Descreation procs + chains of ice spam 0% movement speed, extremely easy to kite feral druids

Ret paladins- Snare that we can't shift out of, extremely easy to kite feral druids

Hunters- aoe frost trap, disengage and deterance everytime you get close to them

Survivalbility.

Shadowpriest require no skill whatsoever to kill a feral druid, with 1400 resilience all the dots together tocl around 2-8k per second, if we don't get a quick kill and the fight last longer than 20 seconds we will die.

with the nerf of bear, 1400 resilience a rogue can get me down to 60% health in one 8 second stunlock, well using barkskin aswell and with a base 40k+ health. The rogues constant slow on attack inhibits me from getting behind the rogue... so with double evasion impossible to do anydamage, if i kite with roots the diminishing returns will go away and ill get full 8 second stunlock again before i can get any distance and heal.

Ret paladins- Hammer of justice down to 40% health.

How to fix??

Give feral druids a spell similar too"Hands of freedom", give a spell named"duck" dodges all incomming spell damage.
MMMoarrr armour

Make it more like the vanilla feral days.... where i could use Line of sight, unlike nowadays run behind a pillar CHAINS OF ICE CHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICECHAINS OF ICE

Oh yeah line of sighted 1 out of 10 frost bolts

Some of you aren't looking at WHY ferals are unpopular. I can see quite a few of you are , however the reason isn't always necessarily our attacks and our "survivability" its more of how much of a pain in the ass our rotations are. I'm feral (Been since the vanilla beta) and do you know how many buttons is in my full rotation? roughly 30 if you count the fact that im off-healing and CCing in arena as well as stun locking someone/ slowing someone down. The highest rating I've EVER gotten in arena was 1450 in 2v2, never have I done 3v3 or 5v5 till recently.

Shadow Priests? Really? I eat them for breakfast even without berserk. And by the way, my resil only hits 1100 it probably has something to do with having 12k AP when im all procced (WHich is more than not) 10k when I'm not and 31k health when I'm on the arena floor. Are you referring to dispersion because you can cyclone that...

Now i can agree the desecration and chains of ice is REALLY annoying but its just another lil issue you cloud easily shift to bear and charge to fix.

Ret pallys "snare", I hate that one as much as you but we have bear for a reason. You sound like feral druids always run away, we're melee more than kiters, take advantage of that and beat the living crap out of the pally or stunlock his noob ass. That snare by the way sucks for EVERYONE rogues hate it almost as much as us cause most of the time it renders their sprints useless.

Hunters are so easy it hurts you just have to observe them carefully they do have an action for when they put a trap down just watch for it and side step. Disengage can be easily countered with a kitty pounce that you should be saving specifically for them if they're in the opponents team. Deterrence CAN be cycloned sometimes i've done it enough times to them.

Frost Mages: Yes the amount of power shifting I have to do to kill these guys is astounding but they can STILL be killed you just gotta time those charges correctly. they tend to be stupid and blink out of stuns i set up JUST for them to blink out of in which case my kitty pounce is used, I get frosted, powershift/ trinket (only when they deep freeze at a critical moment) and use maim/bash and lay the bleeds on them, pop they're dead.

Vanilla feral days sucked worse than they do today by the way, it was a real pain in the ass back then to even shift to bear.

Maybe it's the way i play but I tend to say "less resil and more AP/crit = win" I figure killing the target before they can lay it into you is a better approach for a feral like me. Could just be me, and don't tell me I am playing the spec "wrong" because I seem to be killing those classes most ferals are bitching about (aside from warrs, god i hate warrs)rather than becoming some Pet's cat chow. I hope this helped some of those struggling peeps out there with those kind of problems.

[Zheryn]

The highest rating I've EVER gotten in arena was 1450 in 2v2
...
Shadow Priests? Really? I eat them for breakfast even without berserk.
...
Hunters are so easy it hurts
...
don't tell me I am playing the spec "wrong" because I seem to be killing those classes most ferals are bitching about (aside from warrs, god i hate warrs)

You are a 1400 player and say that you kill classes that other people whine about... This thread is about that so few feral druids make it to high rating. Just don't bother say anything about the other classes on 1400 rating cause it doesn't matter what class they are, it's more about who keyturns and who doesn't...

[The bearer of truths]

Feral is fine. you use that bg9 bit as a proof for your arguement.. but all you really show is that the spec is not popular for pvp. I know a good many feral druids. and they are gods in pvp.

[Togepii]

U be trollin' mon?

Mjolnir is never better than those 2 especially NOT near Arp hard cap since it's Mjolnir that procs Arp and will have 'wasted stats/procs', DBW procs agi etc = never wasted.

DBW is better than DV because of the higher stats proc and 30 sec proc.

And yeah, Arp gets better the more you got until hard cap that's why Mjolnir holds me back so much in PvE since I can't gem for Arp in PvE since I'm at soft cap already, so it would be a huge boost to get DBW to be able to gem Arp that is a better stat in PvE where it's not hard to reach soft cap. In PvP tho it's imo too hard to reach any good numbers of Arp as feral druid to make it worth gemming.

Arp gone in two days anyway so guess it's not a big deal :P

My bad, i meant softcap**

And no, DV is better than DBW in any given PvP situation. You would rather a consistent, low CD proc, than a sporadic, high CD proc as the burst opportunities generated will be higher using the low CD proc.

[vladdraculea]

Hunters- aoe frost trap, disengage and deterance everytime you get close to them

uhm good ferals are a night mare for hunters since the feral is always faster than you even with frost trap down. i only did arena in s7 really as survival/hpaly in 2s. got to 1970 something then ran into a wall of afflock/rdruid and warr/hpaly teams and just got burned out on the auto loss lock games and the 40 minute wins against warrior teams.

however there was a good feral team around my level that i just hated. if freedom and master's call was down the druid was on me and i was hard pressed to actually deal any meaningful damage. i ended up using scare beast fakes alot to force him to shift in/out to the point where he either had to burn his innervate on himself or be OOM.

not saying ferals didnt/dont need some improvement and i think they're getting some in cata but as a hunter a good feral is not a push over now.