Int and Divine Plea changes in Wrath

[Deleted]

So, I'm not quite sure about how many changes are coming with the new patch but i know for sure that bliz are nerfing Divine Plea alot, and if I remember right they are removing/nerfing seal of wisdom alot aswell? Now I'm not the best at math, but it looks like int stacking won't be the way to go soon, which leads to my two questions

1: What will be the best stat to stack untill cata hits?

2: And are you going to bother regemming/enchanting pre cata?

And I don't know if i got all my info right, so please correct me if I'm wrong at any point :]

[Fiercon]

Apart from taking wrath Spellpowertrinkets, which will convert into INT-ones there won't be a large change.

You MAY consider haste more valuable since you'll be healing with a slower heal (if you healed with FoL beforehand that is).

If you're one of the larger group of HL-spammers then not much will change.

---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 01:24 PM ----------

1.2. All Spell Power on items is now int, not sure how this affects 80 but at 85 it means that all healers will have a lot more mana (reletively speaking).

My manapool went up from 29,5k to about 34k to give you a rough guidline of "a lot more".

[Chareoss]

In terms of mana, intellect will boost your mana pool but spirit will regen it faster.

My question is will spirit take over intellect for gemming?

[Deleted]

4. Seal of wisdom still exists, its been merged with seal of light as seal of insight.
Ye, but i heard it was getting nerfed so it now is 4% of base mana, and not total, which is next to nothing

[Deleted]

4. Seal of wisdom still exists, its been merged with seal of light as seal of insight.
Ye, but i heard it was getting nerfed so it now is 4% of base mana, and not total, which is next to nothing

Seal of Insight is bloody useless. I mean bloody useless in PVE, i used in a raid on PTR ( Yes i know PTR is PTR), but seriously a chance to gain 147mana for a melee strike, are you kidding me. I generate more than that from my Solace running 4 ticks.

And DP... OMG don't even bother using that unless your running from one boss to the other. Its bloody useless awful! Give Holy Paladins some regen plox.

[Deleted]

In terms of mana, intellect will boost your mana pool but spirit will regen it faster.

My question is will spirit take over intellect for gemming?

considering intellect also gives throughput in spellpower and crit. no it wont

[Rifee]

Seal of Insight is bloody useless. I mean bloody useless in PVE, i used in a raid on PTR ( Yes i know PTR is PTR), but seriously a chance to gain 147mana for a melee strike, are you kidding me. I generate more than that from my Solace running 4 ticks.

And DP... OMG don't even bother using that unless your running from one boss to the other. Its bloody useless awful! Give Holy Paladins some regen plox.

Relax, if the regen is too bad they will fix it. I can see how ever going oom seems bad for you paladins, since you've never gone oom in wrath, but this is how it whoudl be.

[Deleted]

Relax, if the regen is too bad they will fix it. I can see how ever going oom seems bad for you paladins, since you've never gone oom in wrath, but this is how it whoudl be.

since you've never gone oom in wrath

Very bad example, So let me get this straight, your HOLY pally never yelled for Innervate during LK fight? or the need for the shammy to drop mana tide during HM runs?

Relax, if the regen is too bad they will fix it.

That's funny there are hundreds of feedback posts on BETA forums and PTR Forums about regen issues with SOI and DP, still no fix in sight.

but this is how it whoudl be.

Right!!!! So how many healing classes do you know that are forced to Melee the boss to have a chance of regenerating 147 mana per stike?

Furthermore, how many healing classes in the game do you know that have to decide to place a 50% MS on their healing output in order to use their emergency regen button?

Is that HOW it should be?

[Deleted]

since the other healing speccs still have their regen tools beside spirit, i'll have to agree that cutting down paladins mana regen solely to spirit is pretty rude.

on another note, as metioned in the Cata holy paladin thread, the tooltip of DP and its glyph doesn't read "base mana" anymore. is the tooltip simply not up to date, or did they change the mana regen to "total mana" again?

on topic: i'd assume that int, int + spirit and int+mastery will be your choice of gems, depending on socket bonuses and meta - requirements.

int still converts to spellpower, mana (bit regen through replenishment) and some crit.

the more interesting choices regard reforging and general choice of secondary gear stats.

lest i forget: clever use of holy power and Word of Glory are a kind of mana regen (mana conservation), too.

[darkwarrior42]

And DP... OMG don't even bother using that unless your running from one boss to the other. Its bloody useless awful! Give Holy Paladins some regen plox.

They did. It's called spirit.

They don't *want* us regenerating all our mana through intellect anymore. That's part of the point: Intellect is a power stat, Spirit is a longevity stat.

[Deleted]

They did. It's called spirit.

They don't *want* us regenerating all our mana through intellect anymore. That's part of the point: Intellect is a power stat, Spirit is a longevity stat.

i think his point is, that paladins have no other regen besides spirit left.

[Deleted]

They did. It's called spirit.

They don't *want* us regenerating all our mana through intellect anymore. That's part of the point: Intellect is a power stat, Spirit is a longevity stat.

Right so spirit = Mp5 = flat static figue i.e.: 1000 Out of Combat and 800 In combat.

What if you need "emergency" regen. Your flat static regen will not CUT IT, what then. That is when you hit Mana Tide, or Rapture or Hymn of Hope, or Innervate! All those abilities DO NOT penalise the healer for asking for emergency MANA. (Apart from Paladins)

Now lets talk about combat regen, priests and other classes have wonderful ways of generating mana during healing with offensive abilities etc, i particularly love the priest model of stacking arc angel to 5 stacks to give mana regen, the regen from that is FAR superior to a Paladin running into melee to melee the boss to regen mana, (NO Comparison).

In Cataclysm where CC and coordination will matter, i find it hard to see a holy Paladin being able to get many swings in and even if you did manage to do so, 147/170 Mana per strike is not worth the risk or effort.

@ Azari:

The Tooltip is most likely out of date or Typo, as on server the regen is still 10% 2 min cd 50% debuff.

Regarding holy power, yes that was taken into my healing "rotation" of HS/WOG/HL/HOS/DB = HS HS WOG/HL/HL/FOL/LOD/WOG/HS etc... And also the healing output on my paladin is weaker that all the other healers in my guild on the PTR, which makes me a VERY sad panda.

As you may have seen on the front page, this is something Blizzard has recognised that h.pala output was very poor compared to the mana cost of the spells, hopefully they will also do something about the combat and emergency regen model of Paladins.

Either way, i love my Paladin. Let's see how it all pans out!

[Deleted]

@ Azari:

The Tooltip is most likely out of date or Typo, as on server the regen is still 10% 2 min cd 50% debuff.

jeah, thats right. my point was: does it read "base mana" or "total mana"? in the wowhead-cata-databank it reads "total mana" again, whereas i'm sure it was tuned down to "base mana" - makes a huge difference.

[Deleted]

jeah, thats right. my point was: does it read "base mana" or "total mana"? in the wowhead-cata-databank it reads "total mana" again, whereas i'm sure it was tuned down to "base mana" - makes a huge difference.

base mana, used to be total mana in wrath. Now base mana, hence the 50% debuff is even more frustrating.

[Deleted]

i think his point is, that paladins have no other regen besides spirit left.

And no other healing spec has a FREE and INSTANT cast heal, which can be used every 10 seconds or so.

[Deleted]

And no other healing spec has a FREE and INSTANT cast heal, which can be used every 10 seconds or so.

How does that relate to emergency REGEN? Your trying to tell me you can keep a group up with WOG Spam, how you gonna build it when you don't have the mana to CS/HS or heal the beacon?

You gonna spec into a PVP talent for PVE? and stand in the fire for free Holypower every 2 secs?...

[Deleted]

Furthermore, how many healing classes in the game do you know that have to decide to place a 50% MS on their healing output in order to use their emergency regen button?

ok this is blatantly wrong DP is not an emergency regen tool Dp is ment to be used during times when the tank is taking low damage to keep your mana high its not meant to use when you suddenly notice yourself being on 10% mana and the tank is taking alot of heavy blows

[Deleted]

And no other healing spec has a FREE and INSTANT cast heal, which can be used every 10 seconds or so.

Requires Holy Power, Holy power requires:
A) use holy shock
B) heal beacon
C) CS the boss/mob


All three tools to build Holy Power require (MANA), now unless you spec into Blessed Life and forego some of the more important healing talents for a free charge for HolyPower every 2 secs (when you take DIRECT damage) i don't see WOG is allowing me to generate emergency mana?

Considering im already spamming WOG like a madman.

---------- Post added 2010-10-07 at 04:37 PM ----------

ok this is blatantly wrong DP is not an emergency regen tool Dp is ment to be used during times when the tank is taking low damage to keep your mana high its not meant to use when you suddenly notice yourself being on 10% mana and the tank is taking alot of heavy blows

Oh dear, you still don't get the point. We lost seal regen, we lost glyph seal of Wisdom. DP mana return has been reduced to a miniscule ammount. So my argument here is, If other healers can USE Mana Tide, Hymm of Hope, Rapture, Innervate without any penalty being applies.

Why the hell can't Paladins do the same? We all know DP got it's nerf due to Ulduar with Illumination , we all know G:SOW + Judgement was strong 2/4K per judgement mana returned and cheaper heals is strong.

We all know DP was abused by healers in WRATH to negate mana loss by "wasting WINGS+2pT10 Bonus) to counter the DP nerf and reset the mana bar. We all know that meleeing the boss for mana was a very successful tactic in WOTLK.

Here is the problem:

• G.SOW: Gone
• JoW: Gone
• Cheaper Heals: Gone
• DP: Nerfed + 50 MS still present
• SOI Mana Gain: LOLZ please don't get me started
• Spirit Regen: Meh... Mabye it will improve later into the expansion

So with all this LOST, what do we GAIN?

At least DP should have the MS removed, or is that too OP an ability, would you like to compare it to the likes of Mana tide or innervate perhaps?

[Deleted]

no using Wog as much as possible means we will lose mana SLOWER than the other healers who dont have mana free healing.

A completely mana free heal every 10 seconds or so is alot of mana saved when you think it over a 5 minute fight, thats 30 or so free heals. Which for other healers would mean 30 spells that require mana to cast.

And im pretty sure with Daybreak and Tower of radiance, it'll be lower than 10 seconds. i just put that in as a guess, considering holy shock is a 6 second cooldown.

[Aramore]

We have a mana-free hel but I'm sure that the other heals mana costs will be balanced around us using WoG whenever it's available so I doubt it'll makemuch of a difference to our HPM.