Whatever happened to AoE stun like Eadric?

[Rlyskilled]

"He's casting Blinding Shield, turn away!"

Yes, this is exactly what we needed. The bane of keyboard turners everywhere.

[nescáfè]

You arent giving any argument at all- you're arguments so far have been "You know what I mean" and "Your post is ridiculous". Please try to back up your reasonings with appropriate counterarguments, otherwise your posts may seem to come off as a "troll" or "spam".[/QUOTE]

Ok, to clarify.
as of now, as a paladin you can choose one of your best cooldowns in a certain situation. Due to forbearance you cannot use another one for (no idea how long the debuff lasts) x amount of sec/min. Your problem is therefore to choose when to use which ability and what you are giving up by doing so. This is a part of playing and knowing your class. Good paladins use their best cooldowns efficiently at the most opportune moment. Bad paladins don't. Like with any other class.

My point is that an aoe stun or blind, is not the biggest problem with your class. How many times will that actually save you, if thinking defensively, or giving you the upper hand, offensively? My question is, why are you focusing on such a situational spell, a trivial 'need' when, as stated by yourselves, there are bigger issues, such as using one school of magic, and not being able to interrupt except for with a long cd stun? Would you actually prefer this "blinding light"? Strategically that must be seen as a poor trade-off for an interrupt or another school of magic. do you disagree?

So, for you who never reads more than a few words: This is not what you need.

[Firemist]

If you are talking about pvp, then while we are healing ourselves which is apparently what makes us so op, we can get totally locked out of everything we can do. In pve, as a tank, any mob that silences is my worst nightmare, as it leaves me completely unable to keep even an ounce of threat.
As for schools, they should be Ret, Holy, and Prot, like in the spellbook.

I have a pally tank too and i agree that any mob that silence is a pita... but the problem i see with the "ret holy prot" schools is that there would have to be some sort of "resistance" just like there are currently fire,nature,arcane,frost,holy resistance... i think it would make more sense to try and have some abilities use mana but not really be a "spell" sorta like warrior moves and such, i mean a pally should be able to swing a hammer without using a spell to do so right? lol

[cooespooh]

and by "the best" you mean it's dispellable, has a low range and a long ass cooldown unlike similar abilitys as kidney shot and/or deep freeze.
It's pretty much the opposite of "the best".

The problem with that argument is that both of those abilities that you mention have a similar cooldown or have requirements to cast. Deep Freeze either requires you to proc Fingers of Frost or use a spell that freezes an enemy in place, the latter being easily avoidable by anyone with half a brain and something similar to Hand of Freedom. Kidney Shot, however, requires you to have combo points on the target, meaning you can't do it immedietly. Unlike those two, Hammer of Justice has no requirement to use and can be used as an opening attack just like any of their other abilities.

[Praier]

He mentioned these, an aoe stun is NOT the same as frost nova or psychic scream...

Sure it's not the same as frost nova since I guess range classes could still cast if needed/possible. But how is it any different than physic scream? Loss of control of your character and not being able to do anything vs. being stunned and not being able to do anything...hmm...

[Takanami]

I don't understand why Paladins feel the need to have an AoE CC. I really don't. These skills are generally used for defensive cool downs, and lets face it, paladins have the best defensive cool down in the game. Sure it isn't always up and locks you from a few spells, but at that point you can often make a kill and always get away, even if it means jumping off a cliff or hearthing.

As for offensive cool downs, hammer is pretty great, and in a team setting it's only one of many skills thats going to need a trinket. I mean, if you make them blow their trinket your one step closer to beating them to be honest. Paladins are going to be fine, really they are.

[Nairobi]

Paladins also have the ability to remove snares and be immune to them for a short time on a relatively short CD. They can actually do damage to people in pvp and can also heal themselves. Luckily it looks like rets self healing ability will be toned down a bit but still.

I think you're trying to talk about Hand of Freedom. HoF only removes the stun if the target is currently stunned AND the caster has spec'd divine purpose in the ret tree. However, that talent will no longer exist in cata. And at no point did HoF make anyone immune to stuns.

HoJ is a magic stun, not a physical. It can be cleansed/dispelled.

As for the "do damage to people and heal themselves"...just, no.
It cata, its one or the other; use HoPo to do damage or use it to heal.
In WotLK, if you got smashed by a ret in arenas or BGs, make sure you put on your resil gear. We have very subpar damage, and even less support/control to match.

[archangelz]

The problem with that argument is that both of those abilities that you mention have a similar cooldown or have requirements to cast. Deep Freeze either requires you to proc Fingers of Frost or use a spell that freezes an enemy in place, the latter being easily avoidable by anyone with half a brain and something similar to Hand of Freedom. Kidney Shot, however, requires you to have combo points on the target, meaning you can't do it immedietly. Unlike those two, Hammer of Justice has no requirement to use and can be used as an opening attack just like any of their other abilities.

By 'similar cooldown' you mean half the CD? Deep freeze is not easy to avoid by any means. Maybe if i'm spamming dispell as a hpally, but not so much as a ret pally. "Frost nova'd, freedom oh nvm he spell stole it, pet nova, deep freeze fuck." Rogues on the other hand have one of the best constant snares. Crippling is a pain in the ass and when it's on you, you're not going anywhere unless you freedom and even then, he can still kidney shot. Rogues build up combo points extremely fast, don't even use that as an argument.

I don't understand why Paladins feel the need to have an AoE CC. I really don't. These skills are generally used for defensive cool downs, and lets face it, paladins have the best defensive cool down in the game. Sure it isn't always up and locks you from a few spells, but at that point you can often make a kill and always get away, even if it means jumping off a cliff or hearthing.

It is by no means the best and it is basically our only defensive CD with a 5 minute CD.

[4KhazModan]

I have a pally tank too and i agree that any mob that silence is a pita... but the problem i see with the "ret holy prot" schools is that there would have to be some sort of "resistance" just like there are currently fire,nature,arcane,frost,holy resistance... i think it would make more sense to try and have some abilities use mana but not really be a "spell" sorta like warrior moves and such, i mean a pally should be able to swing a hammer without using a spell to do so right? lol

What about our healing that apparently makes us so op? That leaves us wide open to a silence/roflpwned.

[Ronark]

Shamasn say hi. And also, I can't interrupt through your bubble. You have repent, hammer of justice, which is a ranged kidney shot that doesn't require combo points. Paladins also have the ability to remove snares and be immune to them for a short time on a relatively short CD. They can actually do damage to people in pvp and can also heal themselves. Luckily it looks like rets self healing ability will be toned down a bit but still. A 2 second AoE stun? You do realize with the stun it is an interrupt.

Shamans have Fire spells :P
Hex > Repent (Repent is also not baseline)
HoF can be dispelled, and often wares off when we reach our target.
We do not do a lot of damage in PvP (7k TV hits for Ret yay...)
If we heal ourselves, we cannot do damage at all with TV.

Again, BS was a blink effect, NOT a stun effect. And for Prot and Holy, yes it would be used as an interrupt, seeing as that they have none, or to get off a heal on a teammate or themself.

[cooespooh]

Sure it's not the same as frost nova since I guess range classes could still cast if needed/possible. But how is it any different than physic scream? Loss of control of your character and not being able to do anything vs. being stunned and not being able to do anything...hmm...

Alright... if you're a ret paladin, and you get stunned... what can you do? Trinket? Is there really anything more?
If you are rooted in place by a Frost Nova... what can you do? Hand of Freedom, Heal, Exorcism, Judgement, Repentance...
If you are a rogue and you are rooted, what can you do? Deadly Throw (not really that smart but whatever), Blind, Vanish, Cloak of Shadows...
Being limited by a root mechanic is no where near as game stopping as being limited by a stun.

[Rowsdower]

Paladins also have the ability to remove snares and be immune to them for a short time on a relatively short CD.

I think you're trying to talk about Hand of Freedom. HoF only removes the stun if the target is currently stunned AND the caster has spec'd divine purpose in the ret tree. However, that talent will no longer exist in cata. And at no point did HoF make anyone immune to stuns.

I think you're confusing snares and stuns. Perhaps people are just reading what they want to here.

[raziel083]

Howl of Terror? Psychic Scream? Frost Nova? Hand of Gul'dan? Frost Trap?

Yes, there is no such thing as AoE CC.

I know its not baseline Ronark, but lets not forget shadowfury in destro tree. The amount of damage it does is rediculous on top of the aoe stun it provides.

[Ninji]

It was removed because it would just be frustrating. I mean first of all it would require spellalert to be able to counter it in situations other than 1v1-3v3, and imagine it being used in AV, then it's just stupid.

[Prentice]

And as I said, you can't compare it to classes who have the defensive cooldowns that paladins have. Do you have any feeling of what balanced means? No, probably not. You are talking about cloth classes. Your argument is ridiculous.

Hungering Cold and Intimidating Shout would like a word with you. Go ahead and tell me that DK's and warriors don't have defensive cooldowns now. Please?

EDIT: The OP could have linked the actual spell too.
Blinding Shield
A 3 second blind compared to a 10 second AoE CC and an 8 second AoE fear from fellow plate classes is so imba.

[Ronark]

The main part of this discussion isn't that we "need an AoE blink effect"- It is more along the lines of "We need more offensive CC or abilities", since having Defensive ones (since the start of Vanilla) was, in the Dev's eyes, a bad design.

[cooespooh]

By 'similar cooldown' you mean half the CD? Deep freeze is not easy to avoid by any means. Maybe if i'm spamming dispell as a hpally, but not so much as a ret pally. "Frost nova'd, freedom oh nvm he spell stole it, pet nova, deep freeze fuck." Rogues on the other hand have one of the best constant snares. Crippling is a pain in the ass and when it's on you, you're not going anywhere unless you freedom and even then, he can still kidney shot. Rogues build up combo points extremely fast, don't even use that as an argument.



It is by no means the best and it is basically our only defensive CD with a 5 minute CD.

You are missing the point. The difference between the two that is important is that there is no limiting factor other than the cooldown to why you can or cannot use Hammer of Justice. Deep Freeze has a cooldown and requirements for using it in the first place, and Kidney Shot has the requirement that the rogue be attacking the target long enough to get the combo points up (even if it doesn't take long at all). There are counters to prevent both situations, while the Hammer of Justice can only be prevented after it has been cast.

[Vasti]

Inc massive ret pala QQ.

Wouldn't this spell be "a bit" op... If there's a suggestion on how to make it plausible, I'm all ears. But I just can't picture it. An AoE cc? Come on, be realistic and get over it. and don't compare it to shadowfury or something similar.

priest AOE fear?
Warriors AOE fear...or did I Imagine this?
Warstomp?
Mages, frost nova?


Thats how this shouldve worked...

So Holy Cows, (tauren paladins) will get an AOE stun as a racial.... ad some flashy effects and voila...Blinding shield withouth the shield :P

[Firemist]

What about our healing that apparently makes us so op? That leaves us wide open to a silence/roflpwned.

Well i assume the same thing would happen to a pally healer (or a ret trying to heal) as would all other healers...
(again i'm not saying i know everything but this is what i currently know, and please inform me if i'm incorrect)

priest heals = all holy
paladin heals = all holy
druid heals = all nature
shaman heals = all nature

So if any of those classes get silenced while healing it pretty much sucks... but its not just paladins who have that problem.

And i think its almost safe to say that any class (minus a few) wouldn't even have the other spells on their bars. As a destruction warlock if i get locked out of fire spells... sure i can cast a corruption/curse but its not like i'm going to have shadowbolt bound to a key (then again i might be bad a pvp and this is what you are supposed to do)

[4KhazModan]

Well i assume the same thing would happen to a pally healer (or a ret trying to heal) as would all other healers...
(again i'm not saying i know everything but this is what i currently know, and please inform me if i'm incorrect)

priest heals = all holy
paladin heals = all holy
druid heals = all nature
shaman heals = all nature

So if any of those classes get silenced while healing it pretty much sucks... but its not just paladins who have that problem.

And i think its almost safe to say that any class (minus a few) wouldn't even have the other spells on their bars. As a destruction warlock if i get locked out of fire spells... sure i can cast a corruption/curse but its not like i'm going to have shadowbolt bound to a key (then again i might be bad a pvp and this is what you are supposed to do)

Priest = do dmg with shadow
paladin = completely fucked
druid = feral and balance abilities for dmg
shamman = fire spells

They can all do something if they are locked out of their healing tree