Ret seal question

[Deleted]

SoC will always out preform SoR in PvE past the 251 gear average mark.

This is not entirely true, Righteousness does way more damage than command in a short time window. This is due to the increased Judgement damage on SoR with the following RV ticks.

So if you are attacking for around 10-12 seconds, SoR will outperform SoC due to the heavy hitting Judgements.

[Ryme]

SoC will always out preform SoR in PvE past the 251 gear average mark.

I dunno, in under 5 seconds all I really get off is a Judgement, DS and maybe a CS with 2 white swings, that SoR judgement hits so damn hard I generally prefer it on really small health units.

[JayJay09]

Algalon demands Seal of Vengeance/Cor.. Anything else would be a L2P issue. Even if glyphed, SoR is in no way able to keep up with SoV/C on a single target bossfight like Algalon. As it was put out rightly, there are several bossfights where SoR or SoCom is > SoV/C. For example P1 and the addphase in brain @ p2 (brain itzself demands SoV/C). P3 favors SoR or if there's too many adds SoCom. In a good raid you should be able to sometimes single target dps yogg with SoR, when he is not making that "don't look at me" move (forgot its name).

[Deleted]

How long do you play a ret paladin? I think it should be clear right now that if that would be the case we would be "hotfixed" in 24-48h

A man can dream

[JayJay09]

A man can dream

The dmg of TV is really too low. In PvP the ramp up time is way too long in order to let it hit this weak. But the addon will become casterclysm anyway.. The 40 yards range increase alone is a clear hint, what gc favors. I hope there will be more changes when everyone has reached 85 and those inappropriate differences are far beyond obviousness. Cuz this will be the case, I fear.

[Hexme]

This is not entirely true, Righteousness does way more damage than command in a short time window. This is due to the increased Judgement damage on SoR with the following RV ticks.

So if you are attacking for around 10-12 seconds, SoR will outperform SoC due to the heavy hitting Judgements.

No not really SoR judgments might harder but SoCommand seal proc can crit which is why ret paladins went with SoComannd over SoR when they got to a specific gear lvl in ICC cause of your high crit rate.

[Badpaladin]

This is not entirely true, Righteousness does way more damage than command in a short time window. This is due to the increased Judgement damage on SoR with the following RV ticks.

So if you are attacking for around 10-12 seconds, SoR will outperform SoC due to the heavy hitting Judgements.

Negative. The reason why is Seal of Command has better scaling. It deals 36% of your MW damage and can crit for 72% weapon damage for eac melee/CS/DS you do. In 11 seconds, that's 7 ability uses and means multiple CS/DS. You're going to only get two decent sized Judgments with SoR and mediocre seal damage for the rest of your 5 ability uses.

[Deleted]

Still doesn't change the fact that the frontloaded damage of SoR is much higher than that of Command. SoC wins out in sustained damage over a longer period due to it being capable of critting (the two seals hit for very similar damage, noncrit), but if you are bursting low HP targets, SoR wins out always.

[Terradii]

The dmg of TV is really too low. In PvP the ramp up time is way too long in order to let it hit this weak. But the addon will become casterclysm anyway.. The 40 yards range increase alone is a clear hint, what gc favors. I hope there will be more changes when everyone has reached 85 and those inappropriate differences are far beyond obviousness. Cuz this will be the case, I fear.

it hits for 20k...wat more do u want? :O

[Badpaladin]

Still doesn't change the fact that the frontloaded damage of SoR is much higher than that of Command. SoC wins out in sustained damage over a longer period due to it being capable of critting (the two seals hit for very similar damage, noncrit), but if you are bursting low HP targets, SoR wins out always.

The what the hell is your definition of frontloaded? 1 GCD? I'd like to see you pull some numbers out, because RAWR and other spreadsheets say you're wrong.

The only time you used SoR was the first week or two of PP(assuming you still had a ToC or ToGC weapon). That was because (a) gear was still bad and SoC scales better than SoR, and (b) you were blasted away or had to run away so much that the vast majority of your damage was SoR because you couldn't afford much more time to use other abilities.

[Deleted]

Maybe he just wanted to see some leet judgement crits. Right now SoR actually delivers them and seeing as that wasn't a progress fight, it wouldn't surprise me really.

[Ronark]

Quick question: I know this has been asked and probably answered before, but is our new SoC/SoR hybrid (talented that is) able to crit? So we'd get the big JoR and fancy SoC crits in one Seal
Obviously talking about 4.x ofc.

It is covered in the FAQ< but I'll restate it here.

Seal of Righteousness-
What the Seal does: Deals [Base Weapon Speed * (1.1% AP + 2.2% SP)] additional Holy damage.
What the Judgement does: Deals [1 + 20% AP + 32% SP] Holy damage.

Seal of Righteousness is the basic DPS Seal for all Paladin specs at the earlier levels of their career. It scales the most with Spell Power, and deals a portion of Holy spell damage on each hit.

Seal of Righteousness can be vastly improved by speccing into Seals of Command: In addition to its normal effects, the seal hit will also deal 7% additional weapon damage as Holy, and chain to up to 2 additional targets in melee range. Seal of Righteousness is best suited for taking out small enemies that don’t last long under concentrated group fire, or weaker ones that don’t last long enough to utilize Seal of Truth’s full benefits by utilizing the cleave effect of Righteousness.
*Important Note*---> Unlike other DPS Seals, Seal of Righteousness cannot crit.

Seals of Command-
What the Seal does: Deals 7% additional weapon damage as Holy damage on any target that is struck by a Seal hit.
What the Judgement does: Seals of Command does not augment Judgement abilities.

While not a seal itself, it is worth pointing out the effects of Seals of Command. Seals of Command does 7% weapon damage on any target that is hit by a seal effect- This includes the application of Censure stacks when the target is below 5 stacks (re-applications of Censure at 5 stacks do not count), application of the Seal of Justice effect, and on each Seal of Righteousness hit. Seals of Command acts as a separate attack, similar to how seals themselves are a seperate attack from White swings- However, their hit chance is determined on the SAME attack roll as your Seal. Meaning a missed Seal will always mean a missed Seals of Command, and a hit from a Seal will always mean a hit from Seals of Command. That being said, Seals of Command DOES make a separate attack roll for crit chances, and it can crit when used with Righteousness.