1. #1
    Blademaster Pdiamond's Avatar
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    Decent Computer for the Average 10 man Cataclysm Raider

    Hello all, similar to most of you I plan on raiding in Cataclysm. Being a 10 man fan I doubt I'll see much into the 25 version of content.
    I'd like a decent computer that can easily have 40+ fps at all times in Cataclysm and will be able to occasionally Fraps a fight or two.
    I have a couple of components used to in my current PC as upgrades that will go into this computer; so I will exclude the price of them.

    Goal: Build a decent computer for around $600 dollars.

    Current components bought to upgrade:
    GIGABYTE GTX 460 1gb
    Antec DF-35 Mid Tower Case

    Components that I plan to buy:
    SAMSUNG Spinpoint 500gb 7200rpm HDD ($55)
    XFX 650W PSU ($90)
    ASUS P7P55D-E Pro Mobo ($180)
    G.SKILL Ripjaws 4gb (2 x 2gb) 1600 DDR3 ($85)
    i5 760 ($170)
    Noctua NH-D14 Heatsink ($90)

    Current Total: $670

    Any and all advice is welcome, this is my first time building my own computer. I'm sure I'm going overboard on one or two things and that is why I came here for all of your advice.

    Thank you for your time,
    Pdiamond

  2. #2
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    That's a pretty nice setup. It will easily handle 10-man raids and (stock) handle 25-man raids fairly well. If you plan to do any overclocking, which the NH-D14 and 1600MHz RAM seem to indicate, then you will have a setup well capable of both 10 and 25-man. All of the parts look like good quality parts too.

  3. #3
    Blademaster Pdiamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
    That's a pretty nice setup. It will easily handle 10-man raids and (stock) handle 25-man raids fairly well. If you plan to do any overclocking, which the NH-D14 and 1600MHz RAM seem to indicate, then you will have a setup well capable of both 10 and 25-man. All of the parts look like good quality parts too.
    Thank you for such a quick reply! Yes, as you said I would like to overclock. My main concern is with Fraps. Would this be able to handle it well? Also, am I going overboard on anything? For example the motherboard, It's suppose to be a very good board but is it worth it? Would another with a lower price suffice?

    Once again thank you for such a quick and kind reply.

  4. #4
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    I wouldn't say you're going overboard with anything, especially if you're looking to record with fraps. As far as the motherboard, if you wanted to save a few bucks, you could get a similar board that doesn't have USB3 and SATA 6Gbps. Frankly, current SATA drives don't saturate the bandwidth of SATA 3Gbps and I don't think anyone often needs more USB bandwidth. It's really not bad for future proofing, though, and I believe it's only a few bucks ($30?) more than a similar board without those options.

  5. #5
    Blademaster Pdiamond's Avatar
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    Alright, thank you for the reply. I'll definitely stick with it then. Looks like this will be my build after all.

    ...Unless anyone else has something to say

  6. #6
    Psu is small if you plan on going SLI in the future.

    Only issue I could see. You can save a few bucks by switching brands on a few things but generally they come with a sacrifice of some type (Less warranty coverage, louder that kind of thing).

    Video is a Palit GTS450. Main display is a 24" full HD TV. Secondary display is an ACER 19" lcd at 1440x900.

  7. #7
    Bloodsail Admiral Adt's Avatar
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    That looks fine in my eyes, should last you through all of cata imo, pretty good pricing also, bought a pre-built desktop with pretty similar spec's a few months ago for £500, so if you're getting that for $670 you've done well.

  8. #8
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    First of all, your setup looks quite good, minus the horrible looking & noisy case but thats a preference thing. Few things you could do to improve your setup:

    - Switch to AMD setup. AMD Phenom II 955 Black Edition (140$) & M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 (170$). Saves you a few bucks at little to no expense of performance.

    - Unless you plan on heavy overclocking (4.2GHz+) Scythe Mugen 2 (45$) will be better for your wallet, without increasing the noise or affecting cooling performance.

    - Now, you've saved 85$ and it's time to get an SSD. Crucial C300 (140$) is one of the fastest SSD:s around at the moment and the reduced loading times and OS boot time are actually noticeable, while the money spent on intel set and overpriced heatsink are not. Crucial also supports SATA3 which the Asus mobo has and you get even more speed for your bucks. SSD is also dead silent and when you use an SSD your harddisk doesnt have to do so much work and is also more quiet.

    You could also consider changing the memory for a cheaper CL9 & 1333MHz sticks since there is no noticeable performance loss if you do not overclock heavily. Even the most basic memory overclocks to 1600MHz with stock voltage or minor voltage increment. HDD has an ok GB/$ ratio but the 1TB model has better so get one if you can see yourself ever needing that much space. On the PSU: get a 450W, no point getting larger for anything with 1 CPU and 1 GPU (5970 and 480 excluded), just make sure it's an quality build from Antec TruePower New series or anything built by Seasonic or Corsair. Corsair VX450W is a quality PSU but doesnt come with modular cables. More dollars saved. And those who think component power usage is going up: You are wrong, PCI-E standard is limited and chipmakers have to be within it and CPU values are only going to go down from now on with the new processes.
    Last edited by Maick; 2010-10-09 at 03:06 PM. Reason: PSU

  9. #9
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    - Switch to AMD setup. AMD Phenom II 955 Black Edition (140$) & M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 (170$). Saves you a few bucks at little to no expense of performance.
    The OP has stated that they plan on overclocking. Switching to an AMD setup would be counter-productive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    - Unless you plan on heavy overclocking (4.2GHz+) Scythe Mugen 2 (45$) will be better for your wallet, without increasing the noise or affecting cooling performance.
    The Noctuna is a very good cooler at its price point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    - Now, you've saved 85$ and it's time to get an SSD. Crucial C300 (140$) is one of the fastest SSD:s around at the moment and the reduced loading times and OS boot time are actually noticeable, while the money spent on intel set and overpriced heatsink are not. Crucial also supports SATA3 which the Asus mobo has and you get even more speed for your bucks. SSD is also dead silent and when you use an SSD your harddisk doesnt have to do so much work and is also more quiet.
    1. See above comment regarding Intel and the chosen heatsink.
    2. An SSD is only a quality of life improvement. Load times will be faster, but gaming performance will not improve (outside of model loading in Dalaran, perhaps).
    3. If an HDD creates too much noise for someone, they have no business being around a computer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    You could also consider changing the memory for a cheaper CL9 & 1333MHz sticks since there is no noticeable performance loss if you do not overclock heavily. Even the most basic memory overclocks to 1600MHz with stock voltage or minor voltage increment. HDD has an ok GB/$ ratio but the 1TB model has better so get one if you can see yourself ever needing that much space.
    Stepping down to 1333MHz would make overclocking more of a challenge. Having the 1600MHz RAM allows the OP to up base clock to 200MHz, keep the RAM multiplier at 2:8, and run the RAM at full speed. With 1333MHz, they would need to lower the multiplier to 2:6 and have their RAM underclocked to 1200MHz. Suggesting a memory overclock is fairly irresponsible, as it's usually one of the more fragile components.

  10. #10
    High Overlord
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    First of all: Overclocking is easier and just as productive with the AMD setup, in the best case scenario (if the chip is good) you can just increase the multiplier and increase the NB and HT values, perhaps give them a bit of voltage. No hassle with FSB increments since its an BE.

    Noctua is good but not needed unless planning on extreme overclocking. Mugen 2 is good enough.

    Some people like silent setups, and HDD noise is actually the one of the most annoying ones, sound of airflow and fans are stable unlike HDD searchnoise etc.

    I like the quality of life alot more than knowing that I have paid for nothing noticeable and could've gotten that SSD.

    Overclocking memory isnt more harmful than overclocking the CPU, if you keep the voltage on reasonable levels and increasing the memory clocks without changing voltage is in no way harming the memory or the mobo.

    Do not make this an AMD vs Intel war since the fact is that AMD offers most bang for the buck at this price range and AM3 has alot longer lifespan than soon-to-die LGA1156 which is basically dead already. i7 + X58 are the choice when you got few more hundred to spend.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    First of all: Overclocking is easier and just as productive with the AMD setup, in the best case scenario (if the chip is good) you can just increase the multiplier and increase the NB and HT values, perhaps give them a bit of voltage. No hassle with FSB increments since its an BE.
    First of all... Overclocking is indeed easier with AMD setup, but you can turn the clocks up by about 30% max, while i5-760 goes up to 40-50% with high quality air cooler in most cases. Intel is indeed harder to OC, but it gives significantly better results in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    Noctua is good but not needed unless planning on extreme overclocking. Mugen 2 is good enough.
    "just as good" is bad way to be shopping parts when you're preparing for overclocking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    Overclocking memory isnt more harmful than overclocking the CPU, if you keep the voltage on reasonable levels and increasing the memory clocks without changing voltage is in no way harming the memory or the mobo.
    Overclocking memory is very hard, and giving DDR3's any extra voltage can fry those really easily. That's why Intel's way of changing the clock multipliers is safer than tweaking the base clocks. If the RAMs are 1333MHz variety, you lose the ability to finetune multipliers higher, and in most cases have to run the memory actually underclocked to not break those with improper base clock.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  12. #12
    Blademaster Pdiamond's Avatar
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    Oh wow, six reply's over night. Thank you all for your time.

    Maick: I see a SSD as something I would probably get a little after I build this. I wouldn't mind the price dropping a little for them either.

    I am also one to not really notice fan noise/HDD noise much, unless it's to the point that it's screeching like my old 9500gs card. *Cough*


    Reply's always welcomed,
    -Pdiamond
    Last edited by Pdiamond; 2010-10-09 at 04:10 PM. Reason: sSix reply's instead of five now.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    First of all... Overclocking is indeed easier with AMD setup, but you can turn the clocks up by about 30% max, while i5-760 goes up to 40-50% with high quality air cooler in most cases. Intel is indeed harder to OC, but it gives significantly better results in the end.
    Comparing the i5 760 and 955 overclocking capability is abit stupid with percentages as the i5 has notably lower base clock while the AMD is ticking at 3.2GHz stock. So 2.8GHz vs 3.2GHz at base makes a lot of the difference when looking at percentages.


    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    "just as good" is bad way to be shopping parts when you're preparing for overclocking.
    Well, double the price and you get a bit better product, makes sense doesnt it? But is it worth it? Highly unlikely.



    Quote Originally Posted by vesseblah View Post
    Overclocking memory is very hard, and giving DDR3's any extra voltage can fry those really easily. That's why Intel's way of changing the clock multipliers is safer than tweaking the base clocks. If the RAMs are 1333MHz variety, you lose the ability to finetune multipliers higher, and in most cases have to run the memory actually underclocked to not break those with improper base clock.
    Overclocking memory doesnt have huge impact on performance either, unless you are going for really high numbers. The difference between 1333MHz and 1600MHz is 1-3% and that is certainly unnoticeable.

    Anyway, we all have different viewpoints to these things and I always focus on the value and trying to find the optimal price/performance point.

    Ill rest my case now, Just wanted to bring an alternative opinion to the thread since these forums seem to be full of people who dont care what they pick as long as its Intel.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    Comparing the i5 760 and 955 overclocking capability is abit stupid with percentages as the i5 has notably lower base clock while the AMD is ticking at 3.2GHz stock. So 2.8GHz vs 3.2GHz at base makes a lot of the difference when looking at percentages.
    Percentages are very relevant when the baseline performance of i5-760 and P2 x4 965 is nearly identical. For WoW you will see 1-2fps difference between those two CPUs unclocked. But when one of 'em overclocks for 30% and another for 50%, there is a big difference in the FPS afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maick View Post
    Ill rest my case now, Just wanted to bring an alternative opinion to the thread since these forums seem to be full of people who dont care what they pick as long as its Intel.
    My most recent Intel CPU is from 1998, used AMD since because it's cheaper for low budget builders. Too bad your martyr act is wasted.

    AMD is good CPU when you're on low budget and are not overclocking, but since OP is looking for OC options, Intel is the way to go for the reasons mentioned earlier.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  15. #15
    Blademaster Pdiamond's Avatar
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    Sorry to resurrect a slightly old thread but I have one last question.

    I'm attempting to get this rig up and running asap. First ill be getting the Ram, CPU, and mobo stated above(already have the graphics card and case) and will get the Noctua heatsink, PSU, new HDD when I get the money.

    Would a older 500w PSU suffice if I don't overclock and am just using the CPU, mobo, ram, GPU, case, a older 7200 rpm HDD(temporarily), and a optical drive until I can get the 650w PSU?

    Thank you once again for your time,
    -Pdiamond

  16. #16
    The GTX 460 uses around 24 amps at max load. As long as you can get that to it it will be fine.

    Video is a Palit GTS450. Main display is a 24" full HD TV. Secondary display is an ACER 19" lcd at 1440x900.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Pdiamond View Post
    My main concern is with Fraps. Would this be able to handle it well? Also,
    One more thing about Fraps I noticed. 500GB HDD is way too small if you plan on doing lot of video capture. You need about 100GB/hour of space for FullHD quality game capture, and lots of free space for all kinds of temporary files. Get 1TB disc from the start, and prepare to buy 2nd one soon-ish.
    Never going to log into this garbage forum again as long as calling obvious troll obvious troll is the easiest way to get banned.
    Trolling should be.

  18. #18
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    get two hard drives if you plan on frapsing a lot. fraps will record smoother when writing to a seperate hard-drive than the one you are play off of

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