Sick and Tired

[Jeer]

People make lvl 85 premade chars , go to heroic without knowing what to do , dont use CC or interrupts , wipe the group and then blame others

Those kind of people come to forums and claim how heroics in Cataclysm are too hard

And yes "Wotlk player" is an insult and will always be , it stands for spoiled brats that want free loot with no or little effort as possible

Mark my words , when cata goes live "Wotlk players" will QQ how mobs hit too hard, dungeons are hard and require CC , water isnt wet enough , Deathwing needs to look bigger etc

the sad part is blizzard will probably nerf them because of the crying

[broflmao]

Im enjoying the llok of the new H difficulty, the only problem is see is that I HAVE NO CC (im a warrior)

[The Good Captain]

If people showed a level of intellect above that of a wind chime's toward people with arguably fallible complaints, there would be no reason for them to attempt to troll in the first place.

This is why it must be tough but rewarding, for one well-employed as a professional comedian.

[Weaver]

My brother joined something more than a year ago and he plays his charcters with good skill. Does he reservess to be called wrath baby? Not at all. And i have seen some of those famoun "BC/nillia veterans" to fail hard at simple skill checks. The percentage of "noob" wrath players is greater than the bc/nillia ones just because of mere experience. The "pros" who jumped at the "catas heroix will be hard, newbs will get pawned! I R so happy!" wagon just want to get attention and its nothing new or exiting. Its like fashion. When something new comes out, all the masses copy it.

As for lolheroics and free loot, after i got the "free lewt" from sunwell patch badge epics with my warrior(took 3-4 pieces of MH/BT quality gear at once) heroics became smooth enouph to roflstomp them. Heroics were ovegeared in BC, heroics were overgeared in wrath(surely earlier but u got the point), heroics will be overgeared in Cata(at tier 12 they will be aoefest again).

[VoodooStu]

Today, I saw a thread where someone said that a heroic was very difficult in Cata, and he wasn't enjoying the constant wiping.

He was immediately flamed for a being a non-cc using, Wrath loving, moron, who obviously was going to cry himself to sleep every night for lack of free gear. All he said was that the heroic he went to was too hard. I'm getting sick and tired of the crap that people being attacked for having trouble. "y dont u tak your free purps and go aoe something cata is goin to be awesome because of all the losing" seems to be a pretty common sentiment toward anyone who doesn't enjoy some part of the heroics now.

Some people did actually address the issue, to be sure (gear level of premades, familiarity with class/role) but that one thread really just brought the whole issue to the front of my mind. People enjoyed BC. Other people enjoyed Wrath. Enjoying a game where you can win does not make you a motherless dog. It makes you a person.

Now, I issue a challenge- over the course of the next week, do not use the term Wrath player as an insult. Do not use the phrase mindless AoE in response to someone having problems in Cata heroics. And PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, be nice.

i accept your challenge, but only if you do the exact opposite, use the term Wrath player as an insult. Use the phrase mindless AoE in response to someone having problems in Cata heroics. And PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, be mean.

[Daumier]

If all he said was "It's too hard, we're wiping, I don't like it" and didn't explain which instance he was doing, what boss he was wiping on, what he or the group was doing at the time, what they thought the problem might be specifically, or anything else specific that might actually be helpful to the Cata development team, then flame on. Maybe if he'd beta better, then perhaps he'd have a better beta.

[microtonal]

People enjoyed BC. Other people enjoyed Wrath.

And some of us enjoyed both Wrath and BC, and think that people on both sides of this issue (and many others) are being self-righteous twats.

Look, it's not complicated. If you're failing, try it a different way. If you're still failing and you think you've already exhausted all your strategic options, then it's time to consider the possibility that you don't belong wherever it is you're trying to get. Not everyone who likes to play football deserves to be in the NFL. Not even if they really, really want it.

Also, still beta, yo. And in the interest of full disclosure, no, I'm not in the beta. But I'm also not going to get worked up over what goes on in the beta, and I think anyone who does is, at the absolute best, engaging in pointless histrionics. There's still more than a month and a half until release. Chill.

[Xleetskeetx]

I can only pray that things stay difficult.

But, deep down, I know it will all be nerfed.

[Deleted]

Well, it is my opinion that people should really start to learn their class (or classes if they have alts). I've been playing WoW since early vanilla, I don't consider myself to be a pro because of that, however, I've seen plenty of players in WotLK that don't even know the meaning of CC (e.g. I usually play as a tank and ask for a sheep, or chain, or w/e i find useful in some situations, and I find myself asked what is that "CC" I'm talking about, or where do they find that specific spell; keep in mind I'm talking about lvl 80 heroics such as HoR, where a chain or trap sometimes helps lower geared people). Yes, patience is key, but I find that most players only know how to stand still and press buttons on a rotation they googled.

Regarding the Cataclysm impending expansion: It is true that at one point heroic dungeons will be overgeared, and you will probably autowalk + aoe spam through most of them, but there still is no reason in the world why there shouldn't be some boss fight mechanic or even trash mob class that can and should wipe you for being a moron. Take for instance the Valkyr guarding the upper spire in ICC. just 2 of them can absolutely wipe you (unless you have an amazing group). People should stop whining over "OMG i stood in the fire/a big rock fell on me and I died". You should be rewarded for being awake and aware of what's going on, and you should also be punished for being negligent.

Conclusion: People should adapt to the game, not the other way around. And Beta is for testing and reporting issues, not for whining.

[Deleted]

If people can hide behind there forum avatar, they will.

So they can flame people, call people bad etc without anyone finding out who they are. Why do you think everyone got in a hissy fit about the real id on forums thing from blizz.

[Stings]

My brother joined something more than a year ago and he plays his charcters with good skill. Does he reservess to be called wrath baby? Not at all. And i have seen some of those famoun "BC/nillia veterans" to fail hard at simple skill checks. The percentage of "noob" wrath players is greater than the bc/nillia ones just because of mere experience. The "pros" who jumped at the "catas heroix will be hard, newbs will get pawned! I R so happy!" wagon just want to get attention and its nothing new or exiting. Its like fashion. When something new comes out, all the masses copy it.

As for lolheroics and free loot, after i got the "free lewt" from sunwell patch badge epics with my warrior(took 3-4 pieces of MH/BT quality gear at once) heroics became smooth enouph to roflstomp them. Heroics were ovegeared in BC, heroics were overgeared in wrath(surely earlier but u got the point), heroics will be overgeared in Cata(at tier 12 they will be aoefest again).

Yes, indeed it will be roflstomed'able in T12-T13, which is about 7-12 months most likely. That means that it actually requires skills to be able to compete in it, in the 7 months. That doesn't mean your going straight to Ragnaros in questing blues and greens like you did in Wrath-naxx. You have to do heroics, to do raids. So it builds up the ladder Normal(basic lewts)->Heroics(Fair Lewts/Lesser Epicz)->Raids(BIG PHAT EPICZ!)

What is the point of a game, where you just go into a instance, come out 15 minutes later and be equal to everyone? In wrath, at the release of ToC, you could recieve gear at Ulduar 10 Man level, by a simply heroic. In the ICC patch, you could recieve ToC 10-man gear in matter of 3 different instances, all 232 Items. Even get T9 and T10 by heroics.

Yes, that is Wrath-players. You had to do nothing to be able to compete with others. The only point that you could feel weak in, was in PvP. Now you can get easy Furious or Relentless, how, HEROICS AGAIN. Everything that have to balance up to another hardworking player, is through heroics. Yes, you can recieve furious and wrathful i believe by honor. How isn't that being unfair for all the people who raided 3-5 hours x 3-7 days a week, against one who whine over the 15 minute heroic is to long and dull.

[Pixelhero]

To be honest I don't really understand why players want Cataclysm Heroics to be so difficult, sure, there is the added benefit that making harder heroics = making more skilled players right? But the thing is, this is going to make pugging close to impossible. Whats the chance of getting FIVE skilled players who wont rage quit and bitch? (look at Oculus, it isnt even hard and 99% of the time a player still leaves the dungeon). Making dungeons hard isn't exactly going to make better players aswell, they will eventually outgear that instance, and with so return to mindless AoE. Making FUN AND ENTERTAINING mechanics should be what makes a heroic (e.g ick and krick in H PoS).

On another note, making healing piss weak and going oom very easily sounds boring as hell to me and not challenging, which will further increase the queue times for random dungeons since no one will want to play that role since its such a bitch to do. That goes the same for making tanking more challenging, we already have a lack of both tanks/healers, why further the drought of them even more?

[spicie]

I am hoping with a little preparation the heroics will go easier (at least a little), For me, I and a few friends have agreed to level up in the normals so that by the time we get to the heroics we will have farmed a good amount of gear and got a fair bit of practice at it and got to know some of the tactics of each instance. We have worked out the cc bits in that I have hex as a resto shaman, sheep from our mage and traps from our hunter and interrupts from myself and bear tank.

We aren't the best players (except for maybe our bear tank he is great) players in wow, nor are we the worst. But we do know when to get out of the fire.

Now in saying and doing all of that and we get to our 10th heroic and are still wiping for 2 hours every heroic then I gotta say that something is wrong. Certainly not expecting wipeless heroics (especially as I am the designated healer) but if you constantly wipe all the time it is going to get to you.

[Kalmakk]

Sorry to say OP, but all I could think of throughout your post was this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc


Also,

And PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, be nice.

The internet's been around...how long now? Amazing people still have such faith in humanity. It's adorable.

[Vestig3]

He was immediately flamed for a being a non-cc using, Wrath loving, moron, who obviously was going to cry himself to sleep every night for lack of free gear.

Sad but True but i kinda agree with the one who said this coz 70% of my realm are non-cc using, Wrath loving easy epic players that are used too mindless AoE and prob didnt play in TBC where u still had to CC in some cases.

[Beneto]

Yes, indeed it will be roflstomed'able in T12-T13, which is about 7-12 months most likely. That means that it actually requires skills to be able to compete in it, in the 7 months. That doesn't mean your going straight to Ragnaros in questing blues and greens like you did in Wrath-naxx. You have to do heroics, to do raids. So it builds up the ladder Normal(basic lewts)->Heroics(Fair Lewts/Lesser Epicz)->Raids(BIG PHAT EPICZ!)

What is the point of a game, where you just go into a instance, come out 15 minutes later and be equal to everyone? In wrath, at the release of ToC, you could recieve gear at Ulduar 10 Man level, by a simply heroic. In the ICC patch, you could recieve ToC 10-man gear in matter of 3 different instances, all 232 Items. Even get T9 and T10 by heroics.

Yes, that is Wrath-players. You had to do nothing to be able to compete with others. The only point that you could feel weak in, was in PvP. Now you can get easy Furious or Relentless, how, HEROICS AGAIN. Everything that have to balance up to another hardworking player, is through heroics. Yes, you can recieve furious and wrathful i believe by honor. How isn't that being unfair for all the people who raided 3-5 hours x 3-7 days a week, against one who whine over the 15 minute heroic is to long and dull.

I just had to register to answer some of the... Rather glaring errors you made in your post. I don't know what expansion you were in, but Wrath Heroics were challenging for quite a long time... Or are you one of the people who hit 80 after ToC came out? At the correct gear levels, some of them were rather brutal. And I still don't know how in the world you got into Naxx at the expansions start with Greens, I was decked out in full purples/blues before I ever went. Full Heroic gear. As was most of my raid (I was too busy being nervous about raiding to check -everyone-).

Also, you're aware about the contents of your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs... People being able to buy tier gear by just doing heroics...err... You know you'll be able to buy Tier 11 with Justice Points (From Heroics) once tier 12 comes out, right? And you are aware that SWP didn't have gear that was at the same level as the other BC Heroics? Heroics that come out later in expansions have to have incentives to run them, which Blizzard accomplishes by giving them gear equal to the last content patch. I'm pretty sure they said they are going to keep this model in Cataclysm.

[Pixelhero]

How isn't that being unfair for all the people who raided 3-5 hours x 3-7 days a week

I cleared all content (par all HM's) pre-nerf. People getting the ilvl equivelant of my gear in the next content patch was never any issue to me ever, because imo its a good way to catch up with current content rather then having to go Naxx > uld > ToCrap > ICC. You yourself chose to raid 3-5 hours/3-7 days a week, and you should know your gear is obviously going to get outdated, why even clear the content if your just going to bitch about a new player getting the ilvl equivalent so he can catch up to you in raiding content. Sorry to break it to you, but gear will always get replaced, you should do raids for the enjoyment factor not the 'LAWL CHECK IT OUT SCRUBS I CLEARED THIS CONTENT, IM SO SWAG' gear you get from it.

Also, person above me speaks the truth, and nothing less of it.

[jb226]

I haven't done any Cata beta testing so I can't comment specifically on their tuning.

What I can say is that the idea scares me. Not because of the difficulty itself (it sounds like they're just trying to return player skill levels to roughly the BC level, which I had no problem with), but because I'm not sure you can go back.

I just don't know that you can do two years of rofl-aoe'ing your way through ALL content including raids (both tanking and DPSing) and then tell people that they have to CC and focus target and wait for sunders. I don't know if you can go from a world where a DPS pulling aggro and dying gets the healer insulted and change it to one where they basically have to let them die because they can't waste the mana for long. I don't know if you can have an upgrade path in Wrath that is basically "get to 80 -> heroics" and then tell people they're going to have to spend time farming up the Mooncloth set for their priests and farming all the regulars to be geared for the heroics again. I don't know that you can do all these things and drop them in the middle of an idiot magnet like the random dungeon system (you got a DPS with no CC? Oops!) and expect anything but pure frustration.

Even if the player base adapts in terms of their gameplay, they're also going to adapt by destroying systems like that. We're going to be back to a world where you don't want to venture anywhere without your guildies because you'll end up spending 100g repairing all your shit and being saved to the first boss of Heroic Whatever. I want my guildies to be friends, not random people I associate with because the chances of getting a guild group for a heroic are greater with 200 members than it is with 20. Not to mention the players who just decide that losing the viability of conveniences like that makes the game too much standing around wasting time to be worth playing.

If they had kept the difficulty level here all along, no problem. But I'm not convinced we can get the toothpaste back in the tube to any appreciable degree. Especially for the players who joined during Wrath and have never known anything else.

If it were an isolated thing, I wouldn't care how hard heroics are. I'm very scared of the potential for a cascade of unintended consequences.

[Deleted]

I don't know what expansion you were in, but Wrath Heroics were challenging for quite a long time... Or are you one of the people who hit 80 after ToC came out? At the correct gear levels, some of them were rather brutal.

They were not brutal, neither they were challenging - besides some "stay together and run away if he casts a loooong bad cast" (Loken), "focus the caster, then aoe the rest" (some trashpacks), "interrupt the spellflinger, dispel/decurse and walk out of flamestrike" (old kingdom, first trash and trash after 2nd boss) or "dispell, run INTO the black bad something one second before the ae-stun, then step back and burn her down" (maiden in hos)
Some simple bossmechanics to understand and dds that are doing focusdamage, run out of bad things and use counterspell and dispel/decurse/cure things -> the heroics WERE easy opposite to tbc.

But what happened? Bossmechanics were outgeared in Naxx10-gear. With Ilvl200-Epic every healer can outheal lokens ae an the other things mentioned....exept the spellflingers in old kingdom, where i see t10-tanks wiping the grp even today (80% of your life is 80% - even with t10)

If you try to aoe the whole first room in utgarde keep, your (blue) tank will be stunned and oneshottet - your t10-Tank will get a decent amount of damge and maybe die if the heal is not prepared. But thats not "brutal" but stupid

In every raid in ICC i see people, who aoe everything; trash into bloodwing "foucsdamage on tactician" 3-5 dds dying whis pulling aggro with aoe-spells when tank(s) are stunned; in every lk (nonhero) try i see player, who cant walk away from a chatbubble ("defile on me"). That doesn't mean this encounter are "hard or brutal" - but the encounter require players to be on alert.

"Brutal" were the (unnerfed) tbc-heroics, where ONE mob could oneshot a t4-geared tank or you need to have full t4-geared dds to burn the portals in heroic-cot2 down before the next will spawn.

"challenging" were the (regular) tbc-heroics, where you needed 1-3 ccs for a 5-mob-trashpack.

[Deleted]

Today, I saw a thread where someone said that a heroic was very difficult in Cata, and he wasn't enjoying the constant wiping.

He was immediately flamed for a being a non-cc using, Wrath loving, moron, who obviously was going to cry himself to sleep every night for lack of free gear. All he said was that the heroic he went to was too hard. I'm getting sick and tired of the crap that people being attacked for having trouble. "y dont u tak your free purps and go aoe something cata is goin to be awesome because of all the losing" seems to be a pretty common sentiment toward anyone who doesn't enjoy some part of the heroics now.

Some people did actually address the issue, to be sure (gear level of premades, familiarity with class/role) but that one thread really just brought the whole issue to the front of my mind. People enjoyed BC. Other people enjoyed Wrath. Enjoying a game where you can win does not make you a motherless dog. It makes you a person.

Now, I issue a challenge- over the course of the next week, do not use the term Wrath player as an insult. Do not use the phrase mindless AoE in response to someone having problems in Cata heroics. And PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, be nice.

Cause w r living 100000000 miles away behind a screen we can be jerks ./thread