The Reality regarding Cataclysm Heroics.

[Deleted]

Snip

I agree.

As a bear tank (who have the easiest time starting out, due to no need of Def cap), I had to really push my abilities to the maximum to be able to tank things.

Oh look, I actually worked for my gear. Halleluja!

Tier-by-tier progression when there is a final step, is stupid. The system was like that in Vanilla and BC and it limited people from playing.

There's a reason there were 8 million players during BC and 12 million today.

[Kalerender]

The only thing I'm dreading about the new heroics is CC'ing as a warlock is filled with random screaming pain. No more CoR leashing on feared mobs to control bad pathing

[Jabbaprime]

The only thing I'm dreading about the new heroics is CC'ing as a warlock is filled with random screaming pain. No more CoR leashing on feared mobs to control bad pathing

Well then you will be happy know there is a minor/major glyph that makes your Fear into a Tremble, i.e no more running crazy and pulling 50 mobs, instead the feared mob will stay in its place crapping its pants at the sight of your awesomeness

[Freedom]

There is a much simpler option:

"You are a healer who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic"

Or tank... or DPS...
Some of us will eventually have 1 hour of playtime a day during some portions of the week and I'd like to be able to be competitive with other people in my guild but if I can't simply because I don't have 3 hours to do a damned five man I won't be amused. TIME =/= DIFFICULTY. I am all for you stand in fire/lazer you dead mechanics but tedium does not add difficulty.

[Deleted]

There's a reason there were 8 million players during BC and 12 million today.

There were actually more than 11 million players by the time Burning Crusade was coming to an end and only 7 million when it launched (so subscriptions grew by 4 million during that particular expansion compared with only 1 million during WotLK)

[kasuturo]

LFG will die in 4.0, and will revive in 4.1.

[Bloodsail the Orc]

There is a much simpler option:

"You are a healer who does not want to spend 4h with a random group in a retarded heroic"

Yeah, well, in that case you PuG People from your server. If you still cannot down heroics, then I am going to assume you can be put into one of the categories.

[Deleted]

I'm curious to see how the LFD experience will be like with the new heroics once cata goes live.

At the moment all the HCs through LFD are totally faceroll as long as half the group isn't completely bad... EXCEPT Halls of Reflections, where it can take up to 2 hours of wiping, ragequiting, requeuing and replacing the bads until a decent group is formed, and finally clears the instance, which isn't that hard to do in the first place.

Assuming the difficulty of the average HC in cata will be at least equal to HOR or more difficult, will It be as painful as HoR each time you enter a heroic or will people learn to be patient, think about pulls for a second, learn about their class and not act as elitist jerks ? I hope for the latter, but i'm afraid ppl will find it too hard and within a month the blizzard nerfhammer will strike and trivialize HCs like in wrath.

In the end the problem isn't the difficulty, it's people's behaviour when facing challenge in a random group. All type of players are in fact responsible of the nerfing because they simply refuse to work together... The elites are always gonna say "l2p noobs" and /leave, the bads are always gonna complain it's too hard and refuse to hear any suggestion etc...

[allrightythen]

the LFD system will hopefully become a barren wastelend full of inept antisocial elitists who think there 2k dps is leet.

they will all yell at eachother i hope.

also, the smallest minority is ALWAYS the most vocal.

[Fest]

It seems to me at the moment that the people who are saying this is the right way to go are the me, myself & I people. The way the justice/valor points are rewarded makes it very difficult for the people who are not in the "elite" catagory. What it looks like is that people who are not "raiders" are forced to play a raid style of game to be able to get any kind of good gear. WoLK worked well with the dungeon system & difficulty because the less skilled players still had a chance to get some gear. Even if Blizz just made some justice points PER BOSS available on normal mode this may fix this issue and the Heroic difficulty then does not create such a problem

Sorry, but that's a good thing. WotLK basically gave out gear and it was bad. Gear should have to be earned. And in all honesty, the LFD system needs to group you with people the same gear level. I shouldn't be a 6.3k gs rogue getting grouped with 3k tanks.

And you don't need to be "elite" to do the heroics on beta. You just can't be a mouth breather.

[Tehfred]

Not sure why everyone is so upset over time invested = reward. That's what MMOs have been about for years and years. One expansion of WoW tried to move away from that, and it's regarded as the biggest failure in the game's history by most. Those with less time either need to deal with this, or find another game, imo.

[Ormula]

Or tank... or DPS...
Some of us will eventually have 1 hour of playtime a day during some portions of the week and I'd like to be able to be competitive with other people in my guild but if I can't simply because I don't have 3 hours to do a damned five man I won't be amused. TIME =/= DIFFICULTY. I am all for you stand in fire/lazer you dead mechanics but tedium does not add difficulty.

Cataclysm heroics can be cleared in a little less than one hour if you have perfect execution.

[Normal]

I do miss the mechanics of vanilla. Some of the instances were waaay too long yes, but at least you had to go all over and actually grind for gear to get ready for MC. As well as getting another set of gear for an off spec or pvp. BC instances were pretty well tuned at first, but AOE tanking and lack of CC took over before people ventured into heroics. Then there was a time were if you didn't have CC, no one wanted you in their group (unless you were heals or a tank that is). Frankly, Kara was easier than some heroics.

I know they want wow to be more "casual" but there was something to having your epics "feel" epic and legendaries being truly legendary. I miss the days when having a good set of blues was something to be proud of.

[Algore]

I do miss the mechanics of vanilla. Some of the instances were waaay too long yes, but at least you had to go all over and actually grind for gear to get ready for MC. As well as getting another set of gear for an off spec or pvp. BC instances were pretty well tuned at first, but AOE tanking and lack of CC took over before people ventured into heroics. Then there was a time were if you didn't have CC, no one wanted you in their group (unless you were heals or a tank that is). Frankly, Kara was easier than some heroics.

I know they want wow to be more "casual" but there was something to having your epics "feel" epic and legendaries being truly legendary. I miss the days when having a good set of blues was something to be proud of.

If you still had blue set gear when pre tbc ended you were simply bad.
It's the same in WOTLk, in the beginning you had blue/green maybe some trinket still from tbc, then you ventured into the heroics to get blue-gear maybe an epic.
Then you started raiding naxx you got more epics, of course since it's a raid? Sure I can agree that you can swim through epics too much now since everything is about Itemlevel now, not how many epics you have, but you just cant make all raid tiers drop blue gear and then save the last tier to drop epics.

[Reucht]

In the end the problem isn't the difficulty, it's people's behaviour when facing challenge in a random group. All type of players are in fact responsible of the nerfing because they simply refuse to work together... The elites are always gonna say "l2p noobs" and /leave, the bads are always gonna complain it's too hard and refuse to hear any suggestion etc...

This. This. THIS.

When you hear people talking on this forum, they're all pro, they all have KS and when something goes wrong it's always someone else his fault. Also, if you played in TBC, you're pro all of a sudden? Not at all! The reason Blizzard followed the easy road during WotLK was simply because too many people were whining about the difficulty of heroics during TBC. And guess what, if you're whining about the difficulty during TBC, you played during TBC! So that generalization doesn't make any sense, at all.

Imo, they should remove the entire LFD tool. If you have to go through the effort of finding a group and moving to the instance, you won't leave after one wipe. Nowadays, if you wipe once, it's too hard. And all elites do the same, but the other way around "we shouldn't wipe here, this is easy mode, I'm out". Failing is a mandatory part of the learning process.

If you suck at heroics, play normal modes. If you think heroics are too easy, go do some raids. Blizzard has a lot more brain than any of you guys, they implemented the guild perks to gather people of the same skill level and keep them together (guild hopping doesn't work anymore). Learn from eachother, teach eachother and progress together. Because Blizzard didn't make this game for you alone, they made it for 12 million people and it's not easy to make everyone happy if you only have one difficulty level.

Instead of whining on these boards, learn your class (you suckers) or teach others to become better players (you pro's) and the World (of Warcraft) would become a much better place.

[Jackmoves]

man im dooooomed! i did 1 gruul raid in tbc
tbh all pve content ive experienced has been piss easy. I mostly just pvp though with the occasional raid thrown in, ive done 9 icc 25 hc mods with my main pve char and none of which is perticularly challanging. Only real challange as far as im concerned lies in pvp, pve bosses was designed to lose to you, those people you face in pvp will do everything they can to fuck you over :P
So bottom line, sounds like cata might be good

[Sledfang]

Cataclysm will not be hard! If its hard in beta, it will get nerfed.

Basically everything except Heroic raids are going to be easily doable by everyone.

[druun]

This. This. THIS.

When you hear people talking on this forum, they're all pro, they all have KS and when something goes wrong it's always someone else his fault. Also, if you played in TBC, you're pro all of a sudden? Not at all! The reason Blizzard followed the easy road during WotLK was simply because too many people were whining about the difficulty of heroics during TBC. And guess what, if you're whining about the difficulty during TBC, you played during TBC! So that generalization doesn't make any sense, at all.

Imo, they should remove the entire LFD tool. If you have to go through the effort of finding a group and moving to the instance, you won't leave after one wipe. Nowadays, if you wipe once, it's too hard. And all elites do the same, but the other way around "we shouldn't wipe here, this is easy mode, I'm out". Failing is a mandatory part of the learning process.

If you suck at heroics, play normal modes. If you think heroics are too easy, go do some raids. Blizzard has a lot more brain than any of you guys, they implemented the guild perks to gather people of the same skill level and keep them together (guild hopping doesn't work anymore). Learn from eachother, teach eachother and progress together. Because Blizzard didn't make this game for you alone, they made it for 12 million people and it's not easy to make everyone happy if you only have one difficulty level.

Instead of whining on these boards, learn your class (you suckers) or teach others to become better players (you pro's) and the World (of Warcraft) would become a much better place.

This guy wins.

Im super excited for the new heroics / raids, etc. Unfortunately, i probably wont be anywhere near ready for any of it when WoW2 comes out. My work schedule doesnt give me alot of time to play.

Something that i have always had a problem with in wrath is peoples attitudes toward heroics, raids, etc. I can understand calling it a night when you are pugging a group and for the past 3 hours have wiped on sindy. What i cant stand is being in a 5man, wiping because of a stupid mistake be it by me or someone else, and everyone goes postal, starts pointing fingers, then rage quits.

I guess my point to ^^ is im excited to see some more difficult content that gets people away from this mentality, and more into a "hey, were gonna wipe, but were gonna learn something, and we'll be better players because of it." The majority of people in wrath are so afraid of wiping, its like they actually have to pay for their repairs or something.

tl;dr : new content / mindset == good.

[Zka]

Well in my experience WotlK was like that originally. My first DK tank took me a lot of effort grinding rep gear and crafting or buying equipment to be ready to tank Heroics. I certainly did not step out fresh level 80 into heroics with questing gear. A lot of players seem to be forgetting this.

I'm checking my blog right now:

LK was released at nov 13th. I dinged 80 at nov 22nd in the morning. After getting home from work, I finished a couple of reps by questing, bought boe blues from AH, put enchants/gems everywhere. I had 21.2K hp unbuffed and 540 defense. Some enchants were missing or BC enchants, because I obviously didn't have all needed reps maxed.
We didn't have enough people for a hc, so I ran my first hcs on the next evening. We cleared 6 of them without the slightest problem.
According to my blog, there were 2 bosses and 1 trash pack in these instances that seemed hard. No, not hard, but hard hitting. The rest was tuned easy-medium for groups who are in blues/T5+ and don't use any CC. Yeah, wotlk heroics were haaaard.

So it's not our memory at fault, maybe you are not aware that you don't need ANY kind of serious preparation and grindig for LK heroics. Especially nowadays when there is a good chance that everyone else in the group will sport 232+ epics and will carry you.

[Deleted]

Well in my experience WotlK was like that originally. My first DK tank took me a lot of effort grinding rep gear and crafting or buying equipment to be ready to tank Heroics. I certainly did not step out fresh level 80 into heroics with questing gear. A lot of players seem to be forgetting this. Granted, now its a lot easier, but despite a number of comments saying 'Hur hur ding 80 and get free epix from heroics' even this is not truly the case except for alts. I recently levelled a Mage to 80 and on the day I hit 80, I couldn't queue for any heroics with the gear I had from quests. I had to make epic tailoring robes to get into the LFD. The average rank noob main will not just 'walk into heroics' with questing gear, and faceroll their way into raids. To pull this off requires a degree of understanding of the way the game works.

I got Conq. of Naxx with Sunwell Gear. it was a FACEROLL all the freaking way. Naxx difficulty was probably the worst ever tuned entry raid. For me i liked the TBC one. Not long, not short, just inbetween.