GC quotes on tanking make me smile

[davesurfer]

I am really getting excited with the approach that they are taking. This run in AE or DPS all pick their own target is over YEAH!!!! I hope they stick to their guns

Tank Threat
We don't want tank threat to be so high that the dps are absolved of all responsibility. If players are on the wrong targets, that is a L2P problem. If the mage opens with Arcane Blast before you even get a hit in, that is a L2P problem. If your group feels like they have to wait 6-10 seconds before they can start attacking, then that's either a tank problem or a problem on our end. Likewise, if your group feels constantly throttled several seconds or minutes into the fight, then either you aren't generating as much threat as you are capable of, or our numbers are preventing you from doing so.

In the specific case of AEs such as Thunder Clap, we don't want them to be so powerful that they can hold threat all on their own. We don't want the AE tanking rotation to be just TC and Shockwave. If you are killing things one at a time, then you should make additional attacks to the next target to be killed and Thunder Clap should be sufficient to prevent healer aggro or the like.

No. We aren't going to make tanking and healing so numbingly easy that you can compensate for dps being as terrible as they can possibly be. That isn't fair to the tanks and healers.

Dungeon Finder is a great part of the game. But its existence isn't going to cause us to design everything for the lowest common denominator. If you get a bad player in your group, give them some pointers. If they refuse to listen, kick them. If you can't kick them, then bail. You're a tank -- your queue is short. They have a lot more to lose.

A few targets -- in this case, you might be CC'ing one or two, tanking a few others, but burning down the targets one at a time. If the dps are on the right target and pulling off of you, then we're back to situation one. If they are on the wrong target, then they are playing badly and should be corrected and / or mocked, depending on how you roll.

[Mule]

Don't forget this one.

If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

My only concern with that is after the AoE fest that is WotLK all that will end up happening is I will get called a bad tank.

[Polaris]

Don't forget this one.

If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

My only concern with that is after the AoE fest that is WotLK all that will end up happening is I will get called a bad tank.

That's not really anything new though, tanks/healers always get blamed by bad dps who see keeping people alive as a tank/healer job and no concern of theirs. This will happen a lot in 80-85 dungeons and heroics for sure, people trying to play as though it's still wrath and blaming others because they don't know what they're doing, though (hopefully) this will really only be a big problem in pugs.

I probably am just going to avoid the random dungeon finder early in the expansion as my luck with pugs is bad enough on live. :P

[Deleted]

I've only very very rarely tanked, mostly dps and healing. As a dps I wholeheartedly approve of this shift in direction, its about time we got rid of the mindnumbingly boring AoE everything down without blinking (although mages do blink to the next AoE pack).

My only concern with that is after the AoE fest that is WotLK all that will end up happening is I will get called a bad tank.

Yeah thats a worry early on but with all the fantastic changes to guild cohesion and the big benefits of doing a guild run hopefully the days of the fail pugs will be numbered. If more and more good players head towards being in a guild and doing guild runs perhaps pugging 1 or 2 extras, then we are less likely to have to suffer the players who just don't bother to learn their class.

[Emaluri]

Don't forget this one.

If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

My only concern with that is after the AoE fest that is WotLK all that will end up happening is I will get called a bad tank.

Oh hey, look! It's my sig!


Waaaaaait a second....

[_Khasim_]

My only concern with that is after the AoE fest that is WotLK all that will end up happening is I will get called a bad tank.

Fortunately, at the beginning of the expansion when all the noobs won't be used to playing the game properly, I'll have my guildies to run dungeons and heroics with, so I can avoid the initial QQ wave.
I advise all of the tanks to do the same (healers too). Save yourself the nerves.

[Mule]

I've only very very rarely tanked, mostly dps and healing. As a dps I wholeheartedly approve of this shift in direction, its about time we got rid of the mindnumbingly boring AoE everything down without blinking (although mages do blink to the next AoE pack).

Prior to TBC I played a Hunter and I prided myself on my ability to CC 3-4 mobs if needed. After the second half of TBC and then all of WotLK it's going to take a while for people to be used to using CC again.

I think even I'm going to struggle with that. My first introduction to AoE tanking was an accidental overpull in the Shattered Halls. On vent I had the healer yelling "ABORT ABORT" and the DPS yelling "KEEP GOING, GO GO". From that day on I was hooked.

Yeah thats a worry early on but with all the fantastic changes to guild cohesion and the big benefits of doing a guild run hopefully the days of the fail pugs will be numbered. If more and more good players head towards being in a guild and doing guild runs perhaps pugging 1 or 2 extras, then we are less likely to have to suffer the players who just don't bother to learn their class.

I don't pug. I'm at 49/50 in the "Looking for Many" achievement. I'm not particularly patient and much prefer to group with people that I am used to, that I work well with, etc. I prefer to enjoy the game rather than risk frustration with people I don't know - which could be considered a failing I guess.

[Theprophecy2186]

If you are trying to AE tank and a bad dps is attacking the wrong target and dies, we call that justice.

My only concern with that is after the AoE fest that is WotLK all that will end up happening is I will get called a bad tank.

That's fine with me. If dps in an LFD calls me bad bacause they can't focus, I /laugh at them and continue to tank the instance for the non-bads in my group. If someone I know pulls off me and dies, I /laugh at him and tell him to play better, and he most likely will.

This change is welcome on all fronts, imo.

[flargen]

Is this the topic where a bunch of self-important tanks get in a circle and take turns patting themselves on the back for a job well done? Because those are fun.

Speaking as somebody who has traditionally played DPS, and spent the whole of WotLK pugging because of lack of interest, I've seen many more bad tanks doing a bad job causing wipes than I've seen bad DPS causing wipes. I've seen those same terrible tanks completely ignore requests, like the poster above me said they do.

Tanks aren't the second coming of Jesus. There's just as many bad tanks (proportionally) as there are bad DPS and bad healers. You aren't suddenly amazing because you put the majority of your talent points in a tank spec.

[Matchu]

Speaking as somebody who has traditionally played DPS, and spent the whole of WotLK pugging because of lack of interest, I've seen many more bad tanks doing a bad job causing wipes than I've seen bad DPS causing wipes. I've seen those same terrible tanks completely ignore requests, like the poster above me said they do.

The lack of DPS wiping groups is an indictment on Wrath dungeons, not their role. If people don't learn to follow the marks, you'll see many wipes in Cata.

[Kalmah]

I've seen many more bad tanks doing a bad job causing wipes than I've seen bad DPS causing wipes.

This is because no matter how terrible a dps is, it's nearly impossible for them to actually wipe a group in wrath heroics.

[Kelger]

This is because no matter how terrible a dps is, it's nearly impossible for them to actually wipe a group in wrath heroics.

Unless they run up and start agroing shit out of spite before dying/hearthing.

And sadly, even that's not enough to guarantee a group wipe.

[flargen]

This is because no matter how terrible a dps is, it's nearly impossible for them to actually wipe a group in wrath heroics.

Not true. I've seen it happen plenty of times. I've just seen idiot tanks do it more.

Besides, even if what you say is true about WotLK heroics being too easy... the fact that a tank can still manage to fuck it up enough to wipe the group seems like a pretty big indictment as well.

[Baz]

This is definitely a step in the right direction for tanking