1. #1

    Feral Tank Reforging

    Just wondering if it is worth it to reforge gear..

    I am guessing reforge As much haste/crit into hit/expertise for caps. If capped, into Mastery? Or maybe even dodge? What do you guys think?

  2. #2
    Well, if things reflect the PTR and we're worried about raiding ICC still, two things to keep in mind: the 30% ICC buff is gone, but the -20% dodge debuff is also gone.

    Since we'll have +200% threat from Bear Form now, worrying about threat shouldn't be too bad. However, it's fairly easy to get hit cap (if you aren't there already), and getting expertise soft cap is probably the best thing you can do for threat if you fall below it (we're losing 10 expertise). If anything, mastery rating will make a very big difference, since a little goes a long way. On the PTR, I didn't go straight mastery reforging (I like being hit capped personally, and I was around 35 expertise anyways), but I still ended up with 50ish% extra absorb for mastery, and from what I played around with on the PTR, it'll be very significant in ICC.

    I suppose I can touch on the dodge subject to some degree. The reason I probably won't reforge to dodge is because I'm already sitting over 50% dodge unbuffed, and with my crit being 61% unbuffed, that's pretty much a 30% chance that I'll proc SD on damage. That leaves about 20% that I know I won't avoid/absorb (will technically be less if I proc SD and avoid an attack, it's all averages). Regardless, buffing SD will smooth out the damage taken a bit more.
    Last edited by exochaft; 2010-10-12 at 12:11 AM.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  3. #3
    Scarab Lord Roose's Avatar
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    We will get the vast majority of our dodge from agility, whereas other tank classes will depend on it for their dodge. I would rather cap hit and expertise and then go for mastery or crit for SD procs. I am sure that EJ will figure out exactly how these stats rank.

  4. #4
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    I'm not 100% positive the ICC buff is gone because they WANT it be gone. I just think they never turned it on for PTR, it very well may show up on our servers because it's activated there.

    I say this because they never "turned on" ToC either.. you can only do the first boss, they never enabled weeks 2-5.

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  5. #5
    Well, I messed around with my tanking gear on the PTR, and if I went for hit cap the mastery to the max, I came up with:
    +63% SD absorbs via mastery (15.99 mastery to be specific), with my unbuffed AP/HP, I'd see a little more than 16.5k absorbs at max Vengeance, if my math is correct.
    49.25% dodge in Bear Form (unbuffed)
    51.61% crit (with MotW and 3-stack Pulverize, I was up to over 63% crit in Bear Form)
    8.06% melee hit, and I was at 35 expertise just from gear alone.

    I'd say that's pretty respectable, I suppose it really depends what you want.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  6. #6
    Until Blizzard actually confirms or denies that the buff is gone in ICC, i'll continue to believe it to still be there after 4.0.1 goes live. Either they confirm or deny it, or we'll all find out soon enough on our own. Until then, it's merely speculation to assume the buff is gone, just because the PTR didn't have it.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    I'm not 100% positive the ICC buff is gone because they WANT it be gone. I just think they never turned it on for PTR, it very well may show up on our servers because it's activated there.

    I say this because they never "turned on" ToC either.. you can only do the first boss, they never enabled weeks 2-5.
    Well, here's the thing... the model of Cataclysm is what the ICC buff/debuff was simulating. Since they're starting to implement the Cataclysm model, part of that adjustment is the abolishment of the ICC buff/debuff (which blue posts stated were going away, although they never specified when). If the 30% buff is still around, as well as the -20% debuff, SD absorb amounts are going to be huuuuuuuge, figuring we have higher stam across the board due to itemization shifts baseline, we'll probably all be at 90-100k HP easily (which is the HP lvl at 85 in starter gear ironically enough on the beta). Considering the PTR is supposed to be testing for 4.0.1 and not just the transition quests, I think it would be rather pointless if you don't include the most recent raiding progression the way you want it to be tested... aka, the buff/debuff are probably intentionally gone so they can test it under that situation.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  8. #8
    Don't try to burst my bubble, Exo. I want to see 100k hp and 10k vengeance stacks in ICC for 2 months.

  9. #9
    High Overlord Benchwarmers898's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Well, if things reflect the PTR and we're worried about raiding ICC still, two things to keep in mind: the 30% ICC buff is gone, but the -20% dodge debuff is also gone.

    Since we'll have +200% threat from Bear Form now, worrying about threat shouldn't be too bad. However, it's fairly easy to get hit cap (if you aren't there already), and getting expertise soft cap is probably the best thing you can do for threat if you fall below it (we're losing 10 expertise). If anything, mastery rating will make a very big difference, since a little goes a long way. On the PTR, I didn't go straight mastery reforging (I like being hit capped personally, and I was around 35 expertise anyways), but I still ended up with 50ish% extra absorb for mastery, and from what I played around with on the PTR, it'll be very significant in ICC.

    I suppose I can touch on the dodge subject to some degree. The reason I probably won't reforge to dodge is because I'm already sitting over 50% dodge unbuffed, and with my crit being 61% unbuffed, that's pretty much a 30% chance that I'll proc SD on damage. That leaves about 20% that I know I won't avoid/absorb (will technically be less if I proc SD and avoid an attack, it's all averages). Regardless, buffing SD will smooth out the damage taken a bit more.
    the 30% buff isnt gone, it was on PTR only cause the first wing of bosses was up
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  10. #10
    Not to say you are wrong, and I can't remember the link (tho I did read in on front page of this site), but all I remember seeing was a post about Chill of the Throne being nuked, nothing was said one way or the other about the 30% buff. Who knows...

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by RedDeadDawn View Post
    Not to say you are wrong, and I can't remember the link (tho I did read in on front page of this site), but all I remember seeing was a post about Chill of the Throne being nuked, nothing was said one way or the other about the 30% buff. Who knows...
    I remember posts about both, been spending some time trying to dig them up, but with the vast amount of blue posts the last couple of months, it's a daunting task. I remember specifically about Chill of the Throne being gone in a blue post since a lot of people commented on it, the one about the 30% buff was sort of sneaky and not talked about much. There were no deadlines in either concerning their implementation. If the 30% buff is still in, great, but it's certainly overkill by a long shot.
    *Since I'm tired of reposting the link:* EH vs TTL and Hybrid Tax

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    I remember posts about both, been spending some time trying to dig them up, but with the vast amount of blue posts the last couple of months, it's a daunting task. I remember specifically about Chill of the Throne being gone in a blue post since a lot of people commented on it, the one about the 30% buff was sort of sneaky and not talked about much. There were no deadlines in either concerning their implementation. If the 30% buff is still in, great, but it's certainly overkill by a long shot.
    I think i remember the post youre referring to, from memory it was a blue who stated they were toying with the idea of removing it, but it hadnt been decided yet. I could be thinking of a completely different one however.

  13. #13
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Well, I messed around with my tanking gear on the PTR, and if I went for hit cap the mastery to the max, I came up with:
    +63% SD absorbs via mastery (15.99 mastery to be specific), with my unbuffed AP/HP, I'd see a little more than 16.5k absorbs at max Vengeance, if my math is correct.
    49.25% dodge in Bear Form (unbuffed)
    51.61% crit (with MotW and 3-stack Pulverize, I was up to over 63% crit in Bear Form)
    8.06% melee hit, and I was at 35 expertise just from gear alone.

    I'd say that's pretty respectable, I suppose it really depends what you want.
    that would be awsome lol

    seems verry verry decent

    anyway even whit the ICC buff gone or not you still dont want to go for dodge as you hit the demnished returns hardly
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Well, I messed around with my tanking gear on the PTR, and if I went for hit cap the mastery to the max, I came up with:
    +63% SD absorbs via mastery (15.99 mastery to be specific), with my unbuffed AP/HP, I'd see a little more than 16.5k absorbs at max Vengeance, if my math is correct.
    49.25% dodge in Bear Form (unbuffed)
    51.61% crit (with MotW and 3-stack Pulverize, I was up to over 63% crit in Bear Form)
    8.06% melee hit, and I was at 35 expertise just from gear alone.

    I'd say that's pretty respectable, I suppose it really depends what you want.
    What stats did you reforge to get your mastery? Haste and Crit?

  15. #15
    The Patient utopianh's Avatar
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    I'd imagine you'd want to reforge haste, since it's not much of a threat increase anymore, and offers no mitigation besides an increase white swing & SD proc, which I would imagine would be less of an increase in SD uptime than crit, but one would need to math that out to be sure; plus one sindragosa and lady deathwhisper still increases the chance of parry hasting.

    Unless you use the piece for your cat set; in which you'd want to reforge the crit; since neither stat is going to be hugely different for you in bear, while in cat haste is significantly better.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by utopianh View Post
    I'd imagine you'd want to reforge haste, since it's not much of a threat increase anymore, and offers no mitigation besides an increase white swing & SD proc, which I would imagine would be less of an increase in SD uptime than crit, but one would need to math that out to be sure; plus one sindragosa and lady deathwhisper still increases the chance of parry hasting.

    Unless you use the piece for your cat set; in which you'd want to reforge the crit; since neither stat is going to be hugely different for you in bear, while in cat haste is significantly better.
    Easier on your maul finger too, I know mine gets sore. Yes, I'm aware there's macros, I don't want em.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by utopianh View Post
    I'd imagine you'd want to reforge haste, since it's not much of a threat increase anymore, and offers no mitigation besides an increase white swing & SD proc
    More haste=more rage with the rage generation changes they've made.


    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    I think i remember the post youre referring to, from memory it was a blue who stated they were toying with the idea of removing it, but it hadnt been decided yet. I could be thinking of a completely different one however.
    You are not mistaken. They said they were considering removing it - nothing more. The buff is missing on the PTR because ICC on the PTR is day 1 with only 1 wing open.
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  18. #18
    The Patient utopianh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cerus View Post
    More haste=more rage with the rage generation changes they've made.
    And the talent that gives you 5 rage on a crit is still there, which means that they both affect your rage generation rather significantly.
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