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  1. #1
    High Overlord Slavrick's Avatar
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    mage armor glyphs

    Does anyone else think that the molten armor and mage armor glyphs should be major glyphs instead of prime? Since they are prime glyhps, you have to skip out on 2 really good prime glyphs for fire and arcane pve.
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  2. #2
    That's the whole point. Blizzard wants you to have a decision to make.

    They do NOT want you to be able to take everything that's really good.

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    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Some of the prime glyphs, specifically fireball, frostbolt, and molten armor seem grossly under-tuned when compared to some of the others.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zerovlad View Post
    Does anyone else think that the molten armor and mage armor glyphs should be major glyphs instead of prime? Since they are prime glyhps, you have to skip out on 2 really good prime glyphs for fire and arcane pve.
    Here's the thing. If you look at the Prime glyphs, they all clearly affect your DPS directly. The reason Molten Armor and Mage Armor fall in Prime is because they ALSO affect your dps greatly. Molten armor gives you 2% crit to ALL your spells (sure this will decrease in use as crit levels increase, but 2% crit is still 2% crit). Mage armor gives you mana back so you can keep in your arcane blast dump that much longer and do that much more damage through your mastery. If you check out the major glyphs, they're more utility than anything else, so the M&M armors don't really fit there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    That's the whole point. Blizzard wants you to have a decision to make.

    They do NOT want you to be able to take everything that's really good.
    I don't even think it's that. As I stated above, the feel of the M&M glyphs simply don't fit into the Major Glyph category. Also, there are glyphs in the MG category that they want you to use that would probably otherwise be outshone by the M&M glyphs.

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    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Perhaps, but in that case the warlocks shadow bolt glyph should be moved from major -> prime since that also increases their dps in a similar fashion as our mage armor.

    Warlocks are not the only class that has major glyphs that effect their damage.

  6. #6
    We shouldn't complain. We have two Minor Glyphs in Mirror Image and Conjuring (for longer battles) that actually provide small dps increases. I will agree, though, that some of our Major Glyph choices are very bland.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by zephid View Post
    Perhaps, but in that case the warlocks shadow bolt glyph should be moved from major -> prime since that also increases their dps in a similar fashion as our mage armor.

    Warlocks are not the only class that has major glyphs that effect their damage.
    But this is a very bad example. Warlock mastery doesn't use their mana pool to effect their damage output as an arcane mage's does. An affliction lock will most likely opt for shadow trance procs and longer BoA than a cheaper nuke to go with their haunt ... life tap + self heals renders that glyph useless to anyone not in the process of leveling a low toon. Demon lock is the only one who would consider it, but even then, they are interlacing incinerates with molten core procs, have life tap, and a pet talent that restores mana, and if they feel they can get away with another glyph, they will; check to see how many warlocks at 80 use the current glyph of shadow bolt, I bet you the performers do not.

    I can understand what you are trying to say, but I disagree, I believe the mage armor glyph more directly effects a arcane mage's dps in both mastery and more burn time before evocate is necessary and allowing extra blasts in the sustain phase. The molten armor crit should be higher imo for it to be counted as a prime, 2% is a bit low for a prime bonus. I haven't played fire, but could you go pyro, living bomb, fireball? would trading 5% crit on one of those two spells be worth 2% over all spells? There is a choice.

  8. #8
    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incomingnerfs View Post
    But this is a very bad example. Warlock mastery doesn't use their mana pool to effect their damage output as an arcane mage's does.
    Not every mage is gonna be arcane either.

    They are pretty much the same.
    Mage Armor glyph increases your mana regeneration which allows more spells to be cast before oom.

    Shadow bolt glyphs decreases the cost of shadow bolt which allows more spells to be cast before oom.
    Last edited by zephid; 2010-10-12 at 01:43 PM.

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    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Seriously though, compare the glyphs of deep freeze and FFB with our other primes and you start to feel that either some are way over budget or that others are way under.
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  10. #10
    I'm telling you, no self-respecting warlock is going to use shadow bolt glyph, no matter where it is ... besides low level leveling.

    And I did say Mage Armor was for Arcane. Arcane should NEVER oom. never. Around 9k dps on a PTR pre-made (T9 no chants) sustained for 10 mins showing a friend who copied his priest, and I'm a noob who never played an 80 mage before.

    So, tell me, what glyph will you use for your third instead of Mage Armor for Arcane?

    I sort of agree on the -Molten Armor could be better- point, but you have an option that works for fire.

    Would you give up glyph of mage armor for a 15% cost reduction on blast?

    Would you give up 5% fireball crit and molten armor 2% crit for 15% cheaper fireballs?

    I can guarantee you that a warlock would give up a 15% cost reduction shadow bolt glyph for a 5% crit to shadow bolt or a glyph for fel armor that either gave them 20% mana regen while casting or even the sp that fel armor has seemed to have lost, even a haste buff to fel armor would be nice.

    I still believe there must be a far better glyph to use for your argument than shadow bolt. It is a stick man. How about the glyph of Maul? glyph of Smite? Far better examples imo

    Don't mind the debate though

  11. #11
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    Seriously though, compare the glyphs of deep freeze and FFB with our other primes and you start to feel that either some are way over budget or that others are way under.
    The funny part is that Glyph of Frostfire is now a Major.

    It's probably one of the largest DPS increase glyphs in the game.
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  12. #12
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    The funny part is that Glyph of Frostfire is now a Major.

    It's probably one of the largest DPS increase glyphs in the game.
    Is that on beta? The latest glyph data I see still shows it as a prime.
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  13. #13
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    Is that on beta? The latest glyph data I see still shows it as a prime.
    On the PTR, the icon is still a Prime, but the actual glyph shows up as a Major.

    WoWhead and MMO-Champion's databases are still showing it as a Prime - let me load up the PTR and look.
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  14. #14
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    On the PTR, the icon is still a Prime, but the actual glyph shows up as a Major.

    WoWhead and MMO-Champion's databases are still showing it as a Prime - let me load up the PTR and look.
    You'd think the PTR would be down and disabled since today is patch day...
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  15. #15
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    You'd think the PTR would be down and disabled since today is patch day...
    It still isn't though. It's still going and people in PTR trade chat are still trolling.

    It's a Major, at least on the latest PTR build.

    http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6...1210103652.jpg

    I have no idea if that will stay through to Live but if it does... then yeah.
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  16. #16
    lol, the ffb glyph becomes the argument against mage armor in this thread now!

    btw, my lock is going 2nd string ... mage becoming my main. Fire spec seems so much more fun than destruction. Arcane is fun for fooling around. I liked gearing my druid and dk, but stopped playing them for a long time. But mages have the feel I like, seems like a great class (and wish I picked it over lock when I started, wish I could transfer all those mounts and achievements over /sigh).

    I'll still fool around with affliction, and demo is so OP for pvp right now I'm going to faceroll BGs for the next few weeks until they get nerfed, then back to affl pvp spec.


    QQ so much wasted time I could have been a mage

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incomingnerfs View Post
    I'm telling you, no self-respecting warlock is going to use shadow bolt glyph, no matter where it is ... besides low level leveling.

    And I did say Mage Armor was for Arcane. Arcane should NEVER oom. never. Around 9k dps on a PTR pre-made (T9 no chants) sustained for 10 mins showing a friend who copied his priest, and I'm a noob who never played an 80 mage before.
    The thing is that not only arcane mages are using Mage Armor.


    Quote Originally Posted by incomingnerfs View Post
    Would you give up glyph of mage armor for a 15% cost reduction on blast?
    I might. It all depends on if 15% of the mana cost on AB is more or less mana than the extra regen you get from mage armor glyph.

    Quote Originally Posted by incomingnerfs View Post
    Would you give up 5% fireball crit and molten armor 2% crit for 15% cheaper fireballs?
    No, because crit is such an important stat for fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by incomingnerfs View Post
    I can guarantee you that a warlock would give up a 15% cost reduction shadow bolt glyph for a 5% crit to shadow bolt or a glyph for fel armor that either gave them 20% mana regen while casting or even the sp that fel armor has seemed to have lost, even a haste buff to fel armor would be nice.
    The glyph does not grant you 20% mana regeneration.
    The Mage Armor spell it self grants 3% of you total mana as mp/5, the glyph increases that to 3.6%, it does not make it 23%.
    This is how it worked last time I tested it at least, which was a week or so ago.

  18. #18
    Old God Swizzle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by incomingnerfs View Post
    lol, the ffb glyph becomes the argument against mage armor in this thread now!
    Huh? No it doesn't. I'm just stating how when compared to the Glyph of FFB/Deep Freeze, all the older glyphs seem bland and under budget. FFB glyph increases damage by 15% and adds a stacking DoT. Fireball and Frostbolt glyphs increase crit chance by 5% and Molten Armor increases crit chance by 2%. I'm just trying to figure out the glyph budget they got going here.
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  19. #19
    Data Monster Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out the glyph budget they got going here.
    I guess it goes like

    Primes: Major DPS Increases
    Majors: Situational DPS increases, Situational Utility increases, Minor DPS increases, and Tradeoff Glyphs
    Minor: Quality of Life glyphs

    The issue is that Glyph of Frostfire is both a Tradeoff Glyph (trading damage for slow) and a Major DPS Increase Glyph. I can see the argument for both categories.

    Molten Armor and Mage Armor are clearly Major DPS increases though.
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  20. #20
    I am Murloc! zephid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swizzle View Post
    Huh? No it doesn't. I'm just stating how when compared to the Glyph of FFB/Deep Freeze, all the older glyphs seem bland and under budget. FFB glyph increases damage by 15% and adds a stacking DoT. Fireball and Frostbolt glyphs increase crit chance by 5% and Molten Armor increases crit chance by 2%. I'm just trying to figure out the glyph budget they got going here.
    They might be under-budgeted, but I guess they took into consideration that the extra crit on fireball doesn't just increase fireball damage but also increases the probability of getting Hot Streaks.

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