Question on EJ 4.0 specs

[Kuromaki]

Ok, so was going through the EJ thread on 4.0 specs/numbers. First, I noticed some differences in specs between the ones listed on EJ and some posted by gherkin in his "Correct me if I'm wrong" thread
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...0.1-80-UPDATED
and in the EJ thread:
http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-s...4_0_1_numbers/

Mainly, I'm wondering in which of these would be good for base testing once servers are live again, specifically with the destro, rather going with the "full sp" or regular destruction. On that note, perhaps I'm going blind but I didn't even really see a difference in the talents between these two destro specs. Mainly asking this because my current raid setup benefits a bit more with me going destro rather then affliction.
Second, I'm also interested in whether it is better now to simply use Drain Life until we get our proc at <25% target life. Aka: Does Drain Life still crit or was that fixed? Or, is it better to just stick with SB spam? Third, with the changes to Life Tap, is it worth the GCD to keep the glyph up, or is it better to use another glyph all together?
Third, with the changes to threat generation on tanks: Will tanks be able to generate enough threat to where, as a destro lock, we can spam searing pain since it's damage is currently so high? Or, would the recommendation be to only use that on a situational basis.
Fourth, what would be a good situation for soul fire with it's changes? Spamming it when we can regenerate the shards or waiting for a specific buff?
Lastly, I noticed that most of the destro specs do not have the backdraft talent, what was the reasoning behind this?

Thanks for y'alls time.

---------- Post added 2010-10-12 at 03:50 PM ----------

Now, I do have my own thoughts on these, I'm simply looking for another's thoughts/ideas on this. Someone that may have some more experience then myself.

[Metaslave]

Mainly, I'm wondering in which of these would be good for base testing once servers are live again, specifically with the destro, rather going with the "full sp" or regular destruction. On that note, perhaps I'm going blind but I didn't even really see a difference in the talents between these two destro specs.

Full sp means using searing pain the entire fight. This won't be viable at all. Regular destruction uses sp below 50% only.

Lastly, I noticed that most of the destro specs do not have the backdraft talent, what was the reasoning behind this?

They all do.

[gherkin]

1) When I built my SimCraft branch, talent imports from other sites were not operating correctly. Things are changing rather fast, use the elitist jerks talents as they will be more up to date

2) No more Glyph of Life Tap = Spell Power. It's just a GCD reduction, which is worth it.

3) Shadow Bolt spam is king for Affliction because Drain Life is fucking hard to do in a complex fight. Just go with the fact that hitting drain life to make your healers happier is not a huge dps loss.

4) Searing Pain the entire fight is doable if you make use of Backdraft + Incinerate, with SP as your filler. I tested at level 85 with a premade warlock with my guild's tank on a premade warrior, and he was able to stay a good 10-20% ahead of me in threat constantly providing he was able to use a full threat rotation and macro'd inner rage to everything. You have to be careful of course, but it's doable with great tanks.

5) Soul Fire no longer costs soul shards

6) My numbers are off, use EJ's.

[Kuromaki]

Correction: the talent I was thinking of when I said none of the destro had was Backlash.

[Ekeln]

I'd have to say, with the Demo Searing Pain variant only being ~350 dps higher I'll probably go the non-SP route since I pug a lot and I don't trust the vast majority of tanks that I pug with. Also after today the majority of them will be relearning how to tank anyways.

[Metaslave]

Correction: the talent I was thinking of when I said none of the destro had was Backlash.

Backlash is still at 3 talent points, thus being more expensive than ever before. The extra crit isn't all that great and you'll almost never see the proc in a raid setting.

---------- Post added 2010-10-12 at 05:04 PM ----------

4) Searing Pain the entire fight is doable if you make use of Backdraft + Incinerate, with SP as your filler.

With 100% uptime of backdraft where do you use sp as filler?

[Kuromaki]

Ok, so:
1) Even though it no longer gives a sp bonus, it is still worth keeping LT, so I was right on that one
2)So, unless everything goes perfect don't bother using DL too often
3)Using SP as a filler is doable so long as I have a competent tank
4) Must have been thinking of something else in regards to my Soul Fire question. Was in a class so couldn't double check what was in my head atm
5) Using EJs numbers, aye

Thanks Gherkin

[Faustus]

EJ's numbers aren't showing up for me, it goes to a page with a bunch of writing, can someone post up there talent specs for destro with non SP? please

[Kuromaki]

http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#I0bZcZIrrcMbskdo:zoVb

---------- Post added 2010-10-12 at 05:18 PM ----------

On another note, looking back at the Destro trees again, is it really worth it getting Nether Ward/Nether Protection? I'm thinking depending on the healers it could be worth it.

[Ekeln]

Those are utility points, and as such are up to your personal taste/needs.

[Kuromaki]

Those are utility points, and as such are up to your personal taste/needs.

I figured as such.

[Deleted]

So... Rotation for full SP destro would be like it is now (+ start with SoulFire for 15% haste maybe?), but below 50% HP - searing pain spam & incinerate when backdraft is up?

Geez, I feel lost .

[hellar]

So... Rotation for full SP destro would be like it is now (+ start with SoulFire for 15% haste maybe?), but below 50% HP - searing pain spam & incinerate when backdraft is up?

Geez, I feel lost .

Me to. this whole searing pain stuff is just dumb.

When you say full SP you mean drop incinerate from your rotation and substitute SP? (besides back draft, then use incinn) would this really be better at bosses above 50% hp?

i have a hard time believing demo SP spam is better then demo SB spam. SM would allow more time in meta form and its not like you can get imp searing pain.

[gherkin]

So... Rotation for full SP destro would be like it is now (+ start with SoulFire for 15% haste maybe?), but below 50% HP - searing pain spam & incinerate when backdraft is up?

Geez, I feel lost .

Full SP Destro is normal rotation + Searing Pain (ignore Backdraft). You can even drop Chaos Bolt from your rotation entirely at 50%.

Anticipated rotation is what you describe, due to threat limitations of your tanks (they have other jobs than Pure Threat in many fights)

[hellar]

Full SP Destro is normal rotation + Searing Pain (ignore Backdraft). You can even drop Chaos Bolt from your rotation entirely at 50%.

Anticipated rotation is what you describe, due to threat limitations of your tanks (they have other jobs than Pure Threat in many fights)

this for demo aswell?
just use SP were you would normally use SB?

[weewarrior]

not to my knowledge

[Merckx]

The Full Searing Pain rotations are exactly what they sound like. Based on the numbers from the PTR as of the last build (which presumably is the one going live so no more 'test realm is for testing'), you will do more damage casting searing pain than any of your other filler spells for both demo and destro.

For destro, if the boss is above 50%, cast searing pain. If you have backdraft up, cast searing pain. If the boss is below 50% and chaos bolt is off CD, cast searing pain.

For demo, its not as extreme, you still cast incin during molten core and soulfire during decimation, but shadowbolt is gone completely. The dps increase going full searing pain for demo is quite a bit smaller than the increase for destro.


This is all assuming that you aren't going to pull aggro.

[Deleted]

Sounds a little boring for destro then ;p

[Ekeln]

I intend to keep Shadow Bolt as my filler for Demo for Impending Doom procs, and because I don't trust PUG tanks. :3

[weewarrior]

obviously i havent raided with these new changes...but after 50% for demo (presuming no threat issues at all) it would look like this??

50%: keep up immolate and corruption, SEARING PAIN AHHH!!

25%: keep up immolate and corruption, SOUL FIRE AHHH!!

that about right?