So, health and armor "normalization", huh?

[Adeleina]

Hello, it is a rant. Please note it is based on theoretical point of view ONLY. I didn't play beta, ptr or new patch, only read the news.

I am concerned about idea of normalising stamina on all types of armor (cloth, leather, maila and plate) and making armor more equal between armor types.

It basically sounds like "nerf plate, buff clothies". Now heavy armor users loses lots of their advantage against other classes. Won't this change be really unbalancing?

Think about it for a while: in WotlK it was pretty balanced, and NO, DONT GET IT STARTED ABOUT HOW OP/UP X CLASS HAVE BEEN IN Y PATCH or whatever... I'm talking about the fact, that you didn't see plate wearers facerolling everything else in arena. Same goes for casters. There were ofc better and worse specces, but this was dependand on its utility, burst, survivalibity etc. Not on armor type.

Now think about it: all these cloth casters get same amount of stamina as plate melees now. Still, they don't lose their other survival abilities that were introduced to balance them in times they had less hit points and armor that couldn't stop a mosquito. Mages still have mana shield, shadow priests have 15% dmg reduction + instant shields etc. All in all, they are left with MORE efeective health then armored to teeth knights.

All classes are supposed to do similar dps due to PvE (ofc sometimes its higher, sometimes lower, sometimes more bursty, but all in all it should be about equal). But range can kite and do dmg from distance (which was also buffed to 40 yards). So average melee will take more hits while he is kited, and when he finally reaches his target, he needs to break through armor and health pool of comparable size (or even larger due to other mechanics) to his own.

Doesn't this, in theory, sound like it is leaving plate melee in a pretty bad spot? This is an open question, all feedback from beta or ptr is more than welcomed. Still, i don't think this change make much sense and IMO it will serve nothing more than hugely nerfing plate melees without any particular reason.

[Remulade]

Wouldnt really worry about this quite yet, but if things seem mighty unbalanced in 85 I hope it gets changed.

[Syni]

If it's OP, Blizz will fix it. It's a little bit early to be making judgments about level 85 PVP. Paladins were stupid OP in pvp at the start of Wrath. If that's the case with your concerns about clothies for Cata, they'll fix it. I fail to see what's occurred here, that hasn't occurred every damn time they've messed with classes in the past.

And let's be fair; Blizzard doesn't care about 80 pvp for the next two months. So that, that's just screwed from the gate.

[Abbeel]

Everything right now is balance for 85. And there have been changes other than those to health and armor. You should try to take everything into account while you're jumping to conclusions.

[Adeleina]

Wouldnt really worry about this quite yet, but if things seem mighty unbalanced in 85 I hope it gets changed.

Sure, ignore everything Blizzard do and all public data they release. This makes so much more sense than asking questions whether they are going in the right direction or not. Instead, wait till it's so apparently broken that you can't enjoy the game anymore, and then beg for fixes. /Sarcasm

[Underskilled]

Think about it for a while: in WotlK it was pretty balanced, and NO, DONT GET IT STARTED ABOUT HOW OP/UP X CLASS HAVE BEEN IN Y PATCH or whatever... I'm talking about the fact, that you didn't see plate wearers facerolling everything else in arena. Same goes for casters. There were ofc better and worse specces, but this was dependand on its utility, burst, survivalibity etc. Not on armor type.

We're thinking about the same World of Warcraft right? Casters have been wrecking everyone for a while now, and will even more in 4.01. WotLK has been extremely un-balanced because Blizzard introduced a new class, and it's only going to get worse today with the new patch, health normalization is the least of your worries.

[Adeleina]

Everything right now is balance for 85. And there have been changes other than those to health and armor. You should try to take everything into account while you're jumping to conclusions.

But I'm not jumping to conclusion yet, I'm just stating that it SEEMS not right for me and asking for your opinions/feedback from beta. And yes, I'm asking for it NOW. Because I can. Because there is a section for asking question about Cata. It's called "Cata forum".

[Xeraxis]

Hello, it is a rant. Please note it is based on theoretical point of view ONLY. I didn't play beta, ptr or new patch, only read the news.

Sure, ignore everything Blizzard do and all public data they release. This makes so much more sense than asking questions whether they are going in the right direction or not. Instead, wait till it's so apparently broken that you can't enjoy the game anymore, and then beg for fixes. /Sarcasm

Please take some of your own advice. You're ranting about something you haven't seen or experienced and questioning something you have no clue about. If you can make pointless speculation threads what's to stop people from posting their pointless(in your eyes) observations in the thread.

[Merlocker]

I dont mind the normalized stamina but the armor makes absolutely no sense a piece of plate should protect from a physical blow more than a robe I dont care how you roll it plate is harder than cloth so naturally more armored

[Adeleina]

Please take some of your own advice. You're ranting about something you haven't seen or experienced and questioning something you have no clue about. If you can make pointless speculation threads what's to stop people from posting their pointless(in your eyes) observations in the thread.

Ever since they released data about cataclysm and these forums gained "Cataclysm" section I'm supposed to post my point of view and what happens in cataclysm here. Telling me otherwise negates all Blizzard tries to accomplish by releasing Beta for testing. So no, my thread is NOT pointless, and telling me to wait and see how it works out IS pointless.

Ofc I can be totally wrong about the subject I mentioned, so can you PLEASE post something relevant to the original post? Pretty please?

[Gurbz]

I think you are a bit confused about one thing. The Stamina on all armor types is being somewhat normalized. There will still be a gap between plate wearers and non-plate wearers. It just won't be as large.

They are also normalizing the durability on all armor types, to match plate. So everyone gets to enjoy the plate-wearing level of repair bills now.

The actual Armor value of the different types of armor is not getting normalized. For example, a level 85, iLvl 359 cloth chest has about 1250 armor. A plate chest piece, also iLvl 359, has 3600 Armor.

You can look these up on at wowhead right now to compare if you would like.

[Xeraxis]

Ever since they released data about cataclysm and these forums gained "Cataclysm" section I'm supposed to post my point of view and what happens in cataclysm here. Telling me otherwise negates all Blizzard tries to accomplish by releasing Beta for testing. So no, my thread is NOT pointless, and telling me to wait and see how it works out IS pointless.

Ofc I can be totally wrong about the subject I mentioned, so can you PLEASE post something relevant to the original post? Pretty please?

Yes but the point of the forum is to discuss the changes, not to post your thoughts on the changes and how unbalanced it is while completely giving a one sided view of it. You failed to mention how melee classes have cooldowns that also reduce incoming damage, changes to existing abilities for melee that allow them to close the gap on casters(the pally cleanse change for one), and how cloth still has a lower armor rating therefore taking more damage from a physical based melee class. So yes since you only like to QQ and give just one side to a bigger picture your post is pointless.

[Adeleina]

Yes but the point of the forum is to discuss the changes, not to post your thoughts on the changes and how unbalanced it is while completely giving a one sided view of it. You failed to mention how melee classes have cooldowns that also reduce incoming damage, changes to existing abilities for melee that allow them to close the gap on casters(the pally cleanse change for one), and how cloth still has a lower armor rating therefore taking more damage from a physical based melee class. So yes since you only like to QQ and give just one side to a bigger picture your post is pointless.

Thank you for actual feedback your previous post lacked. I knew cloth had still less armor but I thought it was buffed nevertheless. Still, it is nice that it's still much lower than plate.

It saddens me that all you see here is a QQ and one sided arguments, especially since I especially requested other opinions, feedback and that I may be totally wrong. I wanted to present my point of view and hear other opinions.

Also, cooldowns seems to be a step in the right direction, but do not forget clothies have abilities that reduce dmg as well. I wonder if they will be as potent and useful as, say, PW:S.

As for gap closers, I wouldn't count on them very much. Sure we can do something to get to the ranged character, but from what I read (namely: buffed range to 40 yards, but also the fact there is still lots of CC, snares, escape mechanism, and melees are not the only ones getting new abilities - casters get them too) it seems for me plate wearers will still spend a lot of time away from melee range of our target,