The Bear Guide - Cataclysm Edition

[Marcadius]

I have been having trouble tanking H Vortex pinnacle. When the adds are CC'd what is the best way to aggro all the mobs and bring them back? more specificly the mobs by the floating green triangle. This goes along with all mobs that have CC in the group? what is the best way to aggro them all? I cannot Swipe or Thrash because that will break CC, soo what am i to do?

As a bear tank u can actually pull very easily certaing targets without pulling CC, example:

If there is a pack of 5 mobs and u only have 2 CC-ers That means 3 mobs are gonna be loose, what u do is in caster form use (moonfire) on one add then Go bear and use Fearifire and use Growl on the 3rd add.
The major problem with any tank pulling targets to a certain position is (dun dun dun) DPS, dps are whats going to make it or break it if i tell ppl dont dps till i tell u so, all goes good, but when they trigger happy then its sad times :/

Bottom line is, Use FF,Growl,(balance spell) Drag mobs where u want them, Bash one of them to take a bit less damage and hope DPS will be patient and wait for you to do ur job

[bavarcarus]

Mastery is nice, mastery rating isn't very well rated by simulations. I've seen some guides saying mastery is god but I don't really see any numbers behind them comparing to other stats we could be using.

[Arielle]

Mastery is nice, mastery rating isn't very well rated by simulations. I've seen some guides saying mastery is god but I don't really see any numbers behind them comparing to other stats we could be using.

Mastery is 4th behind Agility, Dodge, and Armor. However since Armor (not "Bonus Armor") is a static value you can't change, and you get Dodge from reforging other stats, Mastery is the king Secondary stat.

[Khraeme]

In regards to caps and what not, is it best to get hit/exp cap and get away from having higher other stats, like haste, mastery, crit? I know mastery/crit are very important, but how important is it to be hit/exp capped? ATM I'm at 8.03% hit and 24 EXP (will be capped with enchant), but if i were to drop some of the reforges I have of hit/exp, I'd have more mastery and crit, which currently is 26% crit and 15.66 (62% bonus) of mastery.

[Yohassakura]

In regards to caps and what not, is it best to get hit/exp cap and get away from having higher other stats, like haste, mastery, crit? I know mastery/crit are very important, but how important is it to be hit/exp capped? ATM I'm at 8.03% hit and 24 EXP (will be capped with enchant), but if i were to drop some of the reforges I have of hit/exp, I'd have more mastery and crit, which currently is 26% crit and 15.66 (62% bonus) of mastery.

It's already been said quite a few times now. Hit + Expertise are NOT important. Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Hit > Expertise for secondary stats.

[Arielle]

It's already been said quite a few times now. Hit + Expertise are NOT important. Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Hit > Expertise for secondary stats.

Expertise comes before Crit. If you think you may be in a situation where you will be required to interrupt, work on getting a few pieces that will get you hit capped (Valor trinket, etc). Do not use these pieces for general purpose tanking, only for those fights where your interrupt is absolutely required.

[Khraeme]

It's already been said quite a few times now. Hit + Expertise are NOT important. Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Hit > Expertise for secondary stats.

I imagined it has been and sorry for bringing it up again. Wouldnt straight agi (neck, ring, back) provide more dodge then something like the Hyjal cloak, as well as other benificial stats? And for dodge, is there a "cap" like in wrath, which was like 60% with procs and being before DR

[pewpewkachooo]

I imagined it has been and sorry for bringing it up again. Wouldnt straight agi (neck, ring, back) provide more dodge then something like the Hyjal cloak, as well as other benificial stats? And for dodge, is there a "cap" like in wrath, which was like 60% with procs and being before DR

Yeah, agility is much better than any regular tanking cloak...the agility adds crit for SD and dodge. The Hyjal cloak DOES add a little more dodge than something with strait up dodge, but it's very little.

---------- Post added 2011-01-11 at 03:22 AM ----------

It's already been said quite a few times now. Hit + Expertise are NOT important. Dodge > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Hit > Expertise for secondary stats.

even though hit and expertise are mehish, Mouth of Earth from hHoO is a pretty good neck for tanking if you change the hit to dodge :P

---------- Post added 2011-01-11 at 05:41 AM ----------

That's why druids don't aeo tank raids lol

[Stevoman]

Expertise comes before Crit. If you think you may be in a situation where you will be required to interrupt, work on getting a few pieces that will get you hit capped (Valor trinket, etc). Do not use these pieces for general purpose tanking, only for those fights where your interrupt is absolutely required.

Expertise does not come before crit. Bosses do not parry haste, and cannot parry when casting. It's been said at least a dozen times in the last two pages. Stop spreading misinformation. -_-

[Arielle]

Expertise does not come before crit. Bosses do not parry haste, and cannot parry when casting. It's been said at least a dozen times in the last two pages. Stop spreading misinformation. -_-

I hate to say it, but you do know that special attacks are on a 2-roll system right?

[Paskgotsheal]

it doesn't seem (as of last night) that the skull bash hotfix was implemented. I am no where near hit cap and I kicked just fine on nefarian without missing one.

[Auroro]

it doesn't seem (as of last night) that the skull bash hotfix was implemented. I am no where near hit cap and I kicked just fine on nefarian without missing one.

I think that is in the next patch.

[Stevoman]

I hate to say it, but you do know that special attacks are on a 2-roll system right?

It doesn't matter. Run a freaking simulator and get the actual stat weights, stop making stuff up. If this forum required you to backup your ridiculous statements with proof, you'd already be banned.

[Arielle]

It doesn't matter. Run a freaking simulator and get the actual stat weights, stop making stuff up. If this forum required you to backup your ridiculous statements with proof, you'd already be banned.

Actually it does matter. Since specials are on a 2 roll System, Expertise increases SD uptime more than straight Crit when you have sufficiently high values of Crit (which we almost always will in 346+ gear thanks to LotP and Pulverize).

Go check Tangedyn's and Fasc's spreadsheets if you don't believe me.

[Stevoman]

Actually it does matter. Since specials are on a 2 roll System, Expertise increases SD uptime more than straight Crit when you have sufficiently high values of Crit (which we almost always will in 346+ gear thanks to LotP and Pulverize).

Go check Tangedyn's and Fasc's spreadsheets if you don't believe me.

OK, since you're either too stubborn or ignorant to simulate it, I'll do it for you. Here's my pre-raid geared feral tank:



GASP! Why look at that, expertise is in the bottom half!

[Arielle]

If you look at the red bars (which is what you should be looking at, since green and blue are both irrelevant at this point), it's actually just slightly behind Crit for your gear.

[Stevoman]

If you look at the red bars (which is what you should be looking at, since green and blue are both irrelevant at this point), it's actually just slightly behind Crit for your gear.

Exactly, that's why I didn't sort by overall. Crit > Expertise. So what was your point?

[bavarcarus]

Exactly, that's why I didn't sort by overall. Crit > Expertise. So what was your point?

In some gear levels expertise could be better than crit, look at how close they are for you.

[Arielle]

In some gear levels expertise could be better than crit, look at how close they are for you.

I just ran it on Rawr for my gear (since that's what you used) and Expertise had equal value to Crit, but less than double of Hit which didn't really make any sense. So yes, once you reach a certain value of Crit, Expertise does become better for SD uptime (and thus Mitigation).

However that value is fluid depending on your current gear.

[Yohassakura]

I imagined it has been and sorry for bringing it up again. Wouldnt straight agi (neck, ring, back) provide more dodge then something like the Hyjal cloak, as well as other benificial stats? And for dodge, is there a "cap" like in wrath, which was like 60% with procs and being before DR

Dodge rating provides a greater dodge % per point than agility. Typically, you should use agility cloaks, necks, and rings. I'm wearing the hyjal cloak atm, waiting for biting chill to drop.
The actual "cap" for >avoidance< is 102.4% and it always has been, at least since crushability was created. The dodge "cap" would be 102.4 - your miss%
The DR on dodge used to hit hard at 60%~ i'm guessing that it's going to be roughly the same.

Actually it does matter. Since specials are on a 2 roll System, Expertise increases SD uptime more than straight Crit when you have sufficiently high values of Crit (which we almost always will in 346+ gear thanks to LotP and Pulverize).

Go check Tangedyn's and Fasc's spreadsheets if you don't believe me.

Expertise only surpasses crit, when your crit is soft-capped from you not having enough hit/expertise.

Dodge: 6.5%
Parry: 14%
Miss: 8%
- (Left over: 71.5%)
Crit: 51.1225
Hit: 20.3775

^ I "tried" to "cap" the crit at the 71.5%, however following the two-roll rule it came to 51.1225 crit, so that means that 20%~ crit was effectively lost from not having any expertise/hit.

I have 28.34% crit in bear, with just motw. +9% from pulverize is 37.34 and we get 1.7648...% from battleshout (that's with the 5% modifier from motw), so that's 39.1048...%. Afaik, that's all of the agility buffs that you'd get (unless you use an agility flask / pot).

In my current gear, i'd need another 12% crit before reaching that soft cap (With just the hit/expertise values = 0!).

OK, since you're either too stubborn or ignorant to simulate it, I'll do it for you. Here's my pre-raid geared feral tank:

Really, you shouldn't be using the stat weights from Rawr. - Read under the heading, stat weights.