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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by bavarcarus View Post
    In some gear levels expertise could be better than crit, look at how close they are for you.
    I just ran it on Rawr for my gear (since that's what you used) and Expertise had equal value to Crit, but less than double of Hit which didn't really make any sense. So yes, once you reach a certain value of Crit, Expertise does become better for SD uptime (and thus Mitigation).

    However that value is fluid depending on your current gear.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Khraeme View Post
    I imagined it has been and sorry for bringing it up again. Wouldnt straight agi (neck, ring, back) provide more dodge then something like the Hyjal cloak, as well as other benificial stats? And for dodge, is there a "cap" like in wrath, which was like 60% with procs and being before DR
    Dodge rating provides a greater dodge % per point than agility. Typically, you should use agility cloaks, necks, and rings. I'm wearing the hyjal cloak atm, waiting for biting chill to drop.
    The actual "cap" for >avoidance< is 102.4% and it always has been, at least since crushability was created. The dodge "cap" would be 102.4 - your miss%
    The DR on dodge used to hit hard at 60%~ i'm guessing that it's going to be roughly the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katarn
    Actually it does matter. Since specials are on a 2 roll System, Expertise increases SD uptime more than straight Crit when you have sufficiently high values of Crit (which we almost always will in 346+ gear thanks to LotP and Pulverize).

    Go check Tangedyn's and Fasc's spreadsheets if you don't believe me.
    Expertise only surpasses crit, when your crit is soft-capped from you not having enough hit/expertise.

    Dodge: 6.5%
    Parry: 14%
    Miss: 8%
    - (Left over: 71.5%)
    Crit: 51.1225
    Hit: 20.3775

    ^ I "tried" to "cap" the crit at the 71.5%, however following the two-roll rule it came to 51.1225 crit, so that means that 20%~ crit was effectively lost from not having any expertise/hit.

    I have 28.34% crit in bear, with just motw. +9% from pulverize is 37.34 and we get 1.7648...% from battleshout (that's with the 5% modifier from motw), so that's 39.1048...%. Afaik, that's all of the agility buffs that you'd get (unless you use an agility flask / pot).

    In my current gear, i'd need another 12% crit before reaching that soft cap (With just the hit/expertise values = 0!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoman
    OK, since you're either too stubborn or ignorant to simulate it, I'll do it for you. Here's my pre-raid geared feral tank:
    Really, you shouldn't be using the stat weights from Rawr. - Read under the heading, stat weights.
    Kuroiwolf - 90 Brewmaster Monk
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  3. #663
    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    Expertise only surpasses crit, when your crit is soft-capped from you not having enough hit/expertise.

    Dodge: 6.5%
    Parry: 14%
    Miss: 8%
    - (Left over: 71.5%)
    Crit: 51.1225
    Hit: 20.3775

    ^ I "tried" to "cap" the crit at the 71.5%, however following the two-roll rule it came to 51.1225 crit, so that means that 20%~ crit was effectively lost from not having any expertise/hit.

    I have 28.34% crit in bear, with just motw. +9% from pulverize is 37.34 and we get 1.7648...% from battleshout (that's with the 5% modifier from motw), so that's 39.1048...%. Afaik, that's all of the agility buffs that you'd get (unless you use an agility flask / pot).

    In my current gear, i'd need another 12% crit before reaching that soft cap (With just the hit/expertise values = 0!).
    That's not exactly how it works.

    For example, in this scenario with 0% hit and 0% exp, you end up with a chance to land a hit on a target of 71.5%. This means for every percentage of crit that you get, your actual crit % only goes up by .715% (1%*0.715).

    Once your crit % exceeds 1/2 of your chance to land a hit on the target (71.5/2 = 35.75), you still continue to gain only .715% crit for each percentage added. However Expertise increases your existing crit % by 2% of your current crit % (on your character sheet). Thus at say 36% crit, you will gain .72% crit for each percentage increase of exp, as opposed to .715% for each percentage increase of exp.

    This is for specials only. Whites continue to function normally and increase 1% for each 1% increase in crit. This means that since this concept is dependent on fluid values of Crit, Hit, and Expertise, there's no hard and fast number at which Expertise automatically becomes better than Crit. However it does happen sometime between 346 and 359 level gear, and will only continue to be that way as your Agility and Crit increase since there are practically no Expertise/Mastery pieces available to use.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoman View Post
    OK, since you're either too stubborn or ignorant to simulate it, I'll do it for you. Here's my pre-raid geared feral tank:


    GASP! Why look at that, expertise is in the bottom half!
    You sure it doesn't only just count the missing aspects because if you get parried, that's another 20-30k dmg done automatically on top of the hit from a raid boss, so that's a good 60k or so blow. Agility is the main stat that gives you crit anyway, so it's better to have a little less crit instead of getting parried and hit for a third of your hp.
    Pëwpëw, the pëwpëw of droods and The Lord of Cupcakes


  5. #665
    Quote Originally Posted by pewpewkachooo View Post
    You sure it doesn't only just count the missing aspects because if you get parried, that's another 20-30k dmg done automatically on top of the hit from a raid boss, so that's a good 60k or so blow. Agility is the main stat that gives you crit anyway, so it's better to have a little less crit instead of getting parried and hit for a third of your hp.
    No you don't. They turned parry-haste into a toggle, and it is not currently toggled "on" for any boss.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Katarn View Post
    No you don't. They turned parry-haste into a toggle, and it is not currently toggled "on" for any boss.
    that's good lol....I used to freak out about expertise and crap before lol....doesn't mean they won't turn it "on" for any other future bosses :P
    Pëwpëw, the pëwpëw of droods and The Lord of Cupcakes


  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yohassakura View Post
    Dodge rating provides a greater dodge % per point than agility. Typically, you should use agility cloaks, necks, and rings. I'm wearing the hyjal cloak atm, waiting for biting chill to drop.
    The actual "cap" for >avoidance< is 102.4% and it always has been, at least since crushability was created. The dodge "cap" would be 102.4 - your miss%[/url].
    Block isnt avoidance so those people with parry (everyone but druids) will only need 101.8% total avoidance. Druids on the other hand since they only have dodge and miss will need 101.2% total avoidance.

    You will find 102.4% was the magic number for shield uses who didn't want to take any crushing blows. because they either avoided or blocked all attacks

  8. #668
    Quote Originally Posted by Alski View Post
    Block isnt avoidance so those people with parry (everyone but druids) will only need 101.8% total avoidance. Druids on the other hand since they only have dodge and miss will need 101.2% total avoidance.

    You will find 102.4% was the magic number for shield uses who didn't want to take any crushing blows. because they either avoided or blocked all attacks
    Yeah, I knew that 102.4 was for uncrushables, but couldn't actually find any for just avoidance, so took it for the same number. Close enough for me, as it's not as if we're going to get close to it.
    Kuroiwolf - 90 Brewmaster Monk
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  9. #669
    I'm confused. Elitistjerks tells me to reforge everything for dodge, but this guide is partial to mastery. How do i decide what to go for?

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiles View Post
    I'm confused. Elitistjerks tells me to reforge everything for dodge, but this guide is partial to mastery. How do i decide what to go for?
    Follow EJ's rule for now.

    This guild is have not been updated for a while.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiles View Post
    I'm confused. Elitistjerks tells me to reforge everything for dodge, but this guide is partial to mastery. How do i decide what to go for?
    use rawr3

    hmm, never knew this forum required 10 characters for a post.

    ---------- Post added 2011-01-13 at 01:39 AM ----------

    anyone noticed that mushrooms are rather good for pulling? you can put them on mobs without aggroing them.

  12. #672
    They are quite nice, but they will become a bit better with the buff in 4.0.6, now they give less threat than fairy fire, it will be about the same after the buff, dont have math to back this up as of yet I havent visited the PTR since cata release.
    The solution to all economical crises: The brand new "Richard's economic stimulus package"

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  13. #673
    Mushrooms are a great idea implemented in a fairly useless way. No spec can use them to do anything great they can't already do with another spell. I wish developers would act on that good idea and turn the spell into something situational but awesome.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by CenariusTheForestLord View Post
    They are quite nice, but they will become a bit better with the buff in 4.0.6, now they give less threat than fairy fire, it will be about the same after the buff, dont have math to back this up as of yet I havent visited the PTR since cata release.
    not much damage, but you can put down 3 of them and use FF after detonating them

  15. #675
    I just farmed few maelstrom crystals to make new enchant on my weapon but now I doubt to change my +130 agi.

    What's better between +130 agi (crit,dodge,ap), +600 dodge proc and +1000AP proc ?


    Ty

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by Serial View Post
    I just farmed few maelstrom crystals to make new enchant on my weapon but now I doubt to change my +130 agi.

    What's better between +130 agi (crit,dodge,ap), +600 dodge proc and +1000AP proc ?

    Ty
    You don't want Landslide.

    Windwalker (or whatever it is) may be better than 130Agi...however I haven't had the opportunity to test it myself. All I can really say is go ahead and try it, just switch back if you don't like it.

  17. #677
    wouldnt mastery give you bigger absorbs though? i know with dodge you will obvs dodge more dmg but....i cant dont see dodge (at like 30%) being of use atm, trying to stack it

    also, as for weapons for druids, there is not many, actually, theres only 2, Malevolance and Akris. Besides the agi/strength difference, which is a better option for us??

  18. #678
    Quote Originally Posted by Khraeme View Post
    wouldnt mastery give you bigger absorbs though? i know with dodge you will obvs dodge more dmg but....i cant dont see dodge (at like 30%) being of use atm, trying to stack it

    also, as for weapons for druids, there is not many, actually, theres only 2, Malevolance and Akris. Besides the agi/strength difference, which is a better option for us??
    There's only 1: Malevolance.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by Katarn View Post
    There's only 1: Malevolance.
    yes, agreed, but, is Akris 100% worthless?

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Khraeme View Post
    yes, agreed, but, is Akris 100% worthless?
    Seliza's is better. There's also the Vicious weapon as well if you do feel inclined.

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