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  1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by Auroro View Post
    If anyone want to help me with the updated Bear Guide, pls sent me a message.

    I think I got about 60% done. 17 pages on Words, I am wipe out.
    There is not much I can contribute to the guide other than a request from a guide user and "new" cata bear player. I played a bear TBC and some of WOTLK, back then there was always a guide and "cliff notes" around so those of us that don't have the time to spend days reading theorycraft, and crunching numbers at least had some base stat/gear targets to go for.

    If possible it would be nice to have a bit of a summary with some of the key targets a bear needs for say heroics, 10man, etc raids. Just some basic Min requirements. On my MM hunter I know I have specific points to reach to be "raid ready" beyond the base item level. (Hit to 8, haste 760...)

    The stat rankings as always is a huge part and normally builds to the required caps and softcaps, but it is nice to know what your final target is, so you can stop "gearing" for it and go to the next one and Gem/enchant to reach caps. Saddly thus far in Cata I have not seen anything like that for bears, everything I find is pre-Cata release, based on the beta.

  2. #822
    Quote Originally Posted by lamrith View Post
    There is not much I can contribute to the guide other than a request from a guide user and "new" cata bear player. I played a bear TBC and some of WOTLK, back then there was always a guide and "cliff notes" around so those of us that don't have the time to spend days reading theorycraft, and crunching numbers at least had some base stat/gear targets to go for.

    If possible it would be nice to have a bit of a summary with some of the key targets a bear needs for say heroics, 10man, etc raids. Just some basic Min requirements. On my MM hunter I know I have specific points to reach to be "raid ready" beyond the base item level. (Hit to 8, haste 760...)

    The stat rankings as always is a huge part and normally builds to the required caps and softcaps, but it is nice to know what your final target is, so you can stop "gearing" for it and go to the next one and Gem/enchant to reach caps. Saddly thus far in Cata I have not seen anything like that for bears, everything I find is pre-Cata release, based on the beta.
    The problem is that if i did that, there will be couple people that will be not happy.

    Stats rankings been up in the air and it is harder to pin each one.

    I do know that Agility and Stamina are the top two stats that we do want. It is a matter of how much do we want is the problem.

    Like for example, let have two druid that share the same profession LW/JC.

    Druid 1 use three [Solid Chimera's Eye] and enchanted his Bracer with [Draconic Embossment - Agility]

    Druid 2 use two [Delicate Chimera's Eye], one [Solid Chimera's Eye] and enchanted his Bracer with [Draconic Embossment - Stamina]

    Which one is wrong?

    It is a matter of choices. Many of us are trying to break away from the "Best Druid's stats build". The best druid is stacking stamina and the druids in this forum is trying to find that sweet spot.

    160k for 359 raid sound good enough, where as 130k is good for heroic. there is a 20k health different.

    30% dodge ok

    We do not even know the sweet spot for Mastery or when to start reforging for it.

    Another example:

    Hit rating

    In 10 man, you need couple gears with hit if you on interruption, skull bash may not need it once 4.1 hit.

    In 25 man, you do not need hit rating.
    Last edited by Auroro; 2011-03-04 at 03:14 PM. Reason: added the hit example

  3. #823
    I think druids should do JC/BS, because it gives you your choice of stats, depending on 4 specs you might be running.

    I pretty much stack agi for normal raids, with one stm trinket and one agi trinket, but I'd go with 2 agi trinkets if I had more 359 gear.

  4. #824
    Quote Originally Posted by Auroro View Post
    Stats rankings been up in the air and it is harder to pin each one.
    There's generally two different schools of thoughts, based on the ones that prefer TTL, and the ones that prefer pure Damage Reduction. You CAN actually cater to both, if you look at my spreadsheet I have catered to both, so the priority looks something like:

    Stamina (until you have "enough health") > Agility > Dodge ~ Armor > Mastery > Crit ~ Expertise > Stamina (after you have "enough health") > Hit ~ Bonus Armor > Haste

    And leave it to people to decide for themselves what "enough health" is.

    Quote Originally Posted by bavarcarus View Post
    I think druids should do JC/BS, because it gives you your choice of stats, depending on 4 specs you might be running.
    JC and BS are not the only professions that can buff all 4 primary stats. You can get the same with all of the other crafting stats: Engineering, Leatherworking, Enchanting, Alchemy and Inscription. The notable exception is Tailoring.

  5. #825
    Hey guys, not sure if many people still view this thread as its quite a bit on now. I just want to see if i can get some advice on my druid.

    I have been playing the class for a few month now as my main and all is well. The only thing im confused about is the Hit/Experties rating, how much do i need of both when i try lower my experties i tend to get parry/dodged alot when attacking, particually annoying when you start to tank a bos and this happens :P.

    Here is my characters sheet, any advice on improving my tanking performance is appreciated.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...craft/advanced
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  6. #826
    Quote Originally Posted by Auroro View Post
    The problem is that if i did that, there will be couple people that will be not happy.

    Stats rankings been up in the air and it is harder to pin each one.

    I do know that Agility and Stamina are the top two stats that we do want. It is a matter of how much do we want is the problem.


    It is a matter of choices. Many of us are trying to break away from the "Best Druid's stats build". The best druid is stacking stamina and the druids in this forum is trying to find that sweet spot.

    160k for 359 raid sound good enough, where as 130k is good for heroic. there is a 20k health different.

    30% dodge ok

    We do not even know the sweet spot for Mastery or when to start reforging for it.

    Another example:

    Hit rating

    In 10 man, you need couple gears with hit if you on interruption, skull bash may not need it once 4.1 hit.

    In 25 man, you do not need hit rating.
    I greatly appreciate you taking the time to answer my post. No sarcasim intended, it is nice to have someone answer and not flame.
    :-)

    I am just trying to figure out where to start, I start rolling randoms tonight with friends to get the last 1/3xp to 85, hoping I have "enough" of everything to maintain agro, and not become a stain on the floor etc.. 3.25%hit, 37325arm, 88685hp, 29.7%dodge

  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by nexusbird View Post
    Hey guys, not sure if many people still view this thread as its quite a bit on now. I just want to see if i can get some advice on my druid.

    I have been playing the class for a few month now as my main and all is well. The only thing im confused about is the Hit/Experties rating, how much do i need of both when i try lower my experties i tend to get parry/dodged alot when attacking, particually annoying when you start to tank a bos and this happens :P.

    Here is my characters sheet, any advice on improving my tanking performance is appreciated.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...craft/advanced
    You need 0 hit and 0 expertise. Sure, it's annoying when your attacks miss or get dodged/parried, but you should be able to hold threat just fine nevertheless, so it is far more important to focus on stats that will reduce your incoming damage, namely dodge and mastery.

    A properly geared bear will have every single item reforged to Dodge.

  8. #828
    If it goes up to 5 at any moment, that's your problem, not your gemming. 2 or 3 maybe if someone was in a random spot, 5 is dumb.

  9. #829
    Captain, what post / comment are you refering to?

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    You need 0 hit and 0 expertise. Sure, it's annoying when your attacks miss or get dodged/parried, but you should be able to hold threat just fine nevertheless, so it is far more important to focus on stats that will reduce your incoming damage, namely dodge and mastery.

    A properly geared bear will have every single item reforged to Dodge.
    Well, you do need some hit and expertise for threat control.

    Bear is a three-scale balance.

    Threat Control <=> Mitigation (EH) <=> Avoidance (TTL)

    Having too much of one thing can hurt you.

    Sure we need to work on Mitigation and Avoidance, but that give us no right to forget Threat Control.

    For example:

    Threat Control <=> Mitigation (EH) <=> Avoidance (TTL): This tank is great at controlling threat, the mitigation is good enough but you are a mana drain.

    Threat Control <=> Mitigation (EH) <=> Avoidance (TTL): This tank also had great threat control, the avoidance is high however this tank is dealing with RNG.

    Threat Control <=> Mitigation (EH) <=> Avoidance (TTL): This tank has good Mitigation and Avoidance however the threat is very weak. At the same time, the DPS have to wait for at least 2 second for the tank to gain aggo of all the target, if the first move miss.

    Threat Control <=> Mitigation (EH) <=> Avoidance (TTL): Well rounded Tank.

    ---

    Lamrith, the way we measure health and armor is not in humanoid form but in bear form with self buff.

    Like for me, 3.88% hit, 41666 armor , 134417 Health, 28.66% Dodge, 3 Exp, and 12.9 mastery (51%), 29.46% crit

    Your hit is good, your dodge is great, your health is leaving me questionable.

  11. #831
    In theory, threat control is necessary. In practice, all the bears out there doing heroic raid content have more threat control than we need even when ignoring hit and expertise, therefore you can safely ignoring threat control and you will still have more threat control than you need for raids.

    Of course, it helps a bit more if you are an Agility-stacker that will put out more threat than a Stamina-stacker.

  12. #832
    The point Tangedyn is trying to make is that in this current raid tier you need absolutely ZERO threat stats to perform well. I have had absolutely no issues with threat pulls after the first 5-10 seconds or so of any fight for that matter. Heroics are a slightly different story in which a lot of the aoe pulls would benefit from less misses/dodges/parries to keep everything glued to you. At current if you are gemming/enchanting/reforging ANYTHING to a threat stat for the purpose of raiding you are actually hurting the raids chance of a kill.

  13. #833
    Currently I am logged out in my Boomkin gear but I MS tank in our raids... We have not gotten to really do Heroic modes yet, I have tried a couple different mixes in our raid weeks of reforging for hit/exp and reforging all to dodge... I reviewed our worldoflogs for both instances of reforging and noticed that the dodge route for Raids was outstanding our healers even noticed (and mentioned to me)... My threat was better (with hit/exp) but I was a mana sponge when it came to just eating hits.

    We run a 10 man raid where I am one of the main sources of interupt on Maloriak, Halfus, Chogall adds and Nef add so i just switch to my fluid death for those fights and I don't miss an interupt unless I rage starve myself...

  14. #834
    it's a problem if it takes 10 seconds to take control of a boss. Granted if you can taunt it there's probably no problem but it's nice to have just a bit of hit/expertise to make dpsers more comfortable. These thoughts are more along 10m lines, in 25m you're certain to have MD or tricks and it likely won't matter.

  15. #835
    Generally, as long as your first mangle hits, you are pretty safe. If it doesn't hit... it's not fatal, but be prepared to Growl.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by tangedyn View Post
    Generally, as long as your first mangle hits, you are pretty safe. If it doesn't hit... it's not fatal, but be prepared to Growl.
    I do agree it is not fatal, just dilemma that could be easy to be fix by having extra gear build around hit/exp.

  17. #837
    Quote Originally Posted by bavarcarus View Post
    it's a problem if it takes 10 seconds to take control of a boss. Granted if you can taunt it there's probably no problem but it's nice to have just a bit of hit/expertise to make dpsers more comfortable. These thoughts are more along 10m lines, in 25m you're certain to have MD or tricks and it likely won't matter.
    When I say in the first 5-10 secs I am talking about breathing room for the dps, not an actual pull off the tank. In the case of a pull off the tank you are either just doing it wrong or having a bad string of misses/dodges/parries! :-D

  18. #838
    It seems our mages like to start out with all CDs blown and mirror image so they can blow by me in threat then hope I catch back up before that runs out lol. I think that may be the arcane ones though, that are trying to get evoc on CD...I'm not really current on mage mechanics.

    Anyways, if my first mangle hits, then I'm a happy bear.

  19. #839
    Well at the moment in bear form i have:

    Health: 162k
    Armor: 44100
    Hit: 4.22%
    Crit: 30.60%
    Experties: 19
    Mastery: 68%
    Dodge: 30%

    When ever i go below 10 experties i see a significant change in parry/dodge from the bosses, sometimes my second mangle misses and i cant relie on lacerates to cause more threat.

    So what is the balance? and i normally use beserk at the beginning of a boss fight just so i know im going to have enough threat and not pull agro. Next patch Skull Bash is suppose to never miss.
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  20. #840
    Which weapon should i use while tanking? got Vicious Gladiator Pike (conquest points) and Seliza's Spear from Tol'vir. I know mastery is nice, but do the other stat increases make the pike better?

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