Drop chimera in MM rotation

[Deepfriedegg]

TLDR: Conclusion is at the bottom.
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Serpent Sting
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Ticks per cast: 15 (if you don't refresh it)
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Total damage for an average 15 tick cast: 29449.2
Damage/Focus 15 Ticks: 1177.97

Sorry but this analyze is close to useles because Serpent sting has 1 tick each 3 second for total of 5 ticks. Serpent Sting debuff is applied after travel time but first tick ticks after 3 seconds.

[Nooska]

I just pulled this test out. 264-277 gear, Arcane Shot Aimed Shot and Steady Shot glyphs, 31% mastery. 11k dps on a dummy with no buffs.




Chimera and Aimed did pathetic total damage for sure. I'm wondering how much they contributed to Wild Quiver, however. Also don't forget that it refreshes Serp Sting. It's a bigger damage hit for less cost (both Focus and GCD) than refreshing SSting by hand and hitting Arcane instead.

Actually, I think CS and AiS did pretty okay damage compared to arcane here. CS is on a 10 second CD and does 5,8( of your total damage, while arcane (not on any sort of CD) does 11%, less than twice CS. Ais did 4,6% if your total damage with an average of 3 AiS per 25 steadies that looks pretty okay (even though I cant see the total number of steadies you cast ofc).
Remember to add part of PS damage to CS and AiS (PS is 8,4% total damage there).

[Karot]

I still use Chimera to refresh Serpent Sting, every time it's off cooldown. I use Arcane as my focus dump when Chimera is on cooldown, instant Aimed isn't available, and don't want to overfill focus with Steady.

What I'm curious about is if it's still worth it to manually refresh Serpent Sting when 4pc-T10 procs.

[Leggomyeggo]

Sorry but this analyze is close to useles because Serpent sting has 1 tick each 3 second for total of 5 ticks. Serpent Sting debuff is applied after travel time but first tick ticks after 3 seconds.

Frick... I thought I was careful, lol. I will redo it for that part and post the update to the same post.

Edit: Post has been updated. It didn't affect any of the other calculations or the conclusion since all other things were based on the damage of each tick and the number of ticks were correct in all other places.

[ShamanWiz]

I prefer to keep Chimera if its slightly stronger then arcane thats good also you dont have to waste global for serpent sting!

[Infs]

What I'm curious about is if it's still worth it to manually refresh Serpent Sting when 4pc-T10 procs.

I don't think anything changed accept SrS crits now, so yea, probably even more so.

[dkv00d00]

I have multiple reports from russian servers that droping chimera in rotation and event droping ss does not affect your DPS. Can enybody confirm or disprove this?

[Rukah]

I have multiple reports from russian servers that droping chimera in rotation and event droping ss does not affect your DPS. Can enybody confirm or disprove this?

Maybe the Russians can?

[Nooska]

I have multiple reports from russian servers that droping chimera in rotation and event droping ss does not affect your DPS. Can enybody confirm or disprove this?

That is mathematically impossible.
Assuming SS is Serpent Sting, the only way for it to not be a dps increase is if they have an amount or RAP high enough for 1 SteadyShot to make up for a full SrS, otherwise it will automatically be a drop in dps because it only requires 1 application per 15 seconds.
And if SrS is a dps increase, then it will also be a dps increase to use CS to refresh it, because CS does more damage than AS (except, possibly, at ridiculously low AP) AND refreshes SrS.

so either the ones doing it and reporting it at really bad (and thus won't notice a difference) or they tested CS on the dummy and tried dropping SrS and CS in a raid while buffed (thus making AS/SS spam more pwoerful along with SrS and CS which they don't see.

[Deepfriedegg]

so either the ones doing it and reporting it at really bad (and thus won't notice a difference) or they tested CS on the dummy and tried dropping SrS and CS in a raid while buffed (thus making AS/SS spam more pwoerful along with SrS and CS which they don't see.

AS/StS might be better compared to SerpS/CS/StS/AS on dummies due to fact that AS dont scale so well with raid buffs CS and SerpS does (almost non existent AP scaling on Arcane - only 7% from weapon damage and 4.2% from the shot itself versus 7% + 24% on Chimera and 40% on Serpent sting, higher crit chance and 30% bleed damage increase.

However, AS/SS spam could yield more DPS even when raid buffed and on boss fights - especially if you have to switch targets often: Marrowgar during Bonestorm, Deathwhisper, Gunship, Saurfang, Putricide, Possibly Blood Princes (not likely,though), Dreamwalker, Sindragosa P2 and P3, Lich King transition phases, P2, P3.... Well, that is not only a handful of fights I have to say...
If that is the case, then I think (and hope) Chimera Damage will get boosted a bit.

[Nooska]

Deepfriedegg;
Are you (like me sometimes) just confusing your shorthands, or do you use SpS and SrS for different abilities (if so, we might be talking past eachother here)?

[Deepfriedegg]

Deepfriedegg;
Are you (like me sometimes) just confusing your shorthands, or do you use SpS and SrS for different abilities (if so, we might be talking past eachother here)?

just confusing my shorthands... SpS=SrS=Serpent Sting
However, by AS/SrS spam I meant Arcane/Steady spam - thanks, I fixed that

[Nooska]

just confusing my shorthands... SpS=SrS=Serpent Sting
However, by AS/SrS spam I meant Arcane/Steady spam - thanks, I fixed that

That make sinfinately more sense (and I didn't even catch that) I think I'll stop theorycrafting for tonight since I hit my head and its obviously affecting my ability to spot things be back tomorrow

[ASO]

Actually, I think CS and AiS did pretty okay damage compared to arcane here. CS is on a 10 second CD and does 5,8( of your total damage, while arcane (not on any sort of CD) does 11%, less than twice CS. Ais did 4,6% if your total damage with an average of 3 AiS per 25 steadies that looks pretty okay (even though I cant see the total number of steadies you cast ofc).
Remember to add part of PS damage to CS and AiS (PS is 8,4% total damage there).

Here's the big problem: Aimed Shot is SUPPOSED to be affected by Careful Aim. It is NOT. I didn't think of it at the time, but I looked at the breakdowns, and it was critting at the rate they should be, while my Steady Shot was critting 100% of the time.

Something is rotten in Den- in hunterland. This is probably why everyone hitting dummies is seeing what I see.

[Deleted]

So for PvP I would say go ahead and drop Chimera even if it heals you for 5% per shot.

I think you forget about Concussive Barrage talent
100% daze for 4secs plus dmg is a really good deal.

[Karot]

Testing on a target dummy for about 20 minutes, Chimera has the largest average crit damage for me. I see no reason to remove it from the rotation. Considering it refreshes Serpent Sting (which can also crit now), and adding in a raid setting, and it's just that much better. Using CS>SpSt>AiS>StS>ArS netted me a consistent 7.5k dps. Adding in KS for an actual boss will probably make it higher, plus raid buffs, of course. Heroics don't seem to be a sufficient place to test any of this, as things die in 10-20 seconds at most anyway.

[Shadowfax]

I wouldnt drop chimera...

[Derian]

I've tried to keep chimera in my pvp rotation. It's a bit sad that chim's gone from being our primary damage shot to utility, but all the secondary effects are making it worth it. It even seems to proc Black Magic now.

[Herecius]

TLDR from the people who can't be assed to read the intelligent math: don't drop it from your skillset. It is important to keep up serpent sting, because otherwise you will waste far more GCDs.