why SB for demonology ?

[HiTmAn47]

I see some ppl say demonology should use SB in his rotation

I want to know why its needed as Incarnate does more damage when Immolate is on and Molten Core only Proc from Immolate

[Spectral]

Because Shadowbolt does more damage than Incinerate when MC isn't procced. Not much more to it.

[hellar]

Because Shadowbolt does more damage than Incinerate when MC isn't procced. Not much more to it.

This

[Deleted]

Because Shadowbolt does more damage than Incinerate when MC isn't procced. Not much more to it.

impending doom

[Overwelm]

impending doom

Procs from both SB and Incin

[Daggy1111]

Sb hits harder then incin unless you go destro, and thats for both afflicton and demo. Mc procs make incin better by about 25%, and actually makes mc procs in exacute phase were you want you to cast incin again, as it is still about 10% more damage then soulfire.

[Dabbo]

For me Incinerate > Shadow Bolt...Why?

1 - Do more damage on targets affected by an Immolate spell.
2 - Glyph of Incinerate - Increases the damage done by Incinerate by 5%.
3 - Impending Doom - Also grants your Shadow Bolt, Hand of Gul'dan, AND Incinerate spells a 5% chance to reduce the cooldown of your Demon Form by 15 sec.
4 - 3 points on Shadow and Flame - Increases the damage done by your Shadow Bolt AND Incinerate spells by 12%
5 - You can spend 3 points on Improved Immolate - Increases the damage done by your Immolate spell by 20%.

[shags the penguin]

For me Incinerate > Shadow Bolt...Why?

1 - Do more damage on targets affected by an Immolate spell.
2 - Glyph of Incinerate - Increases the damage done by Incinerate by 5%.
3 - Impending Doom - Also grants your Shadow Bolt, Hand of Gul'dan, AND Incinerate spells a 5% chance to reduce the cooldown of your Demon Form by 15 sec.
4 - 3 points on Shadow and Flame - Increases the damage done by your Shadow Bolt AND Incinerate spells by 12%
5 - You can spend 3 points on Improved Immolate - Increases the damage done by your Immolate spell by 20%.

Don't understand your logic ?
It does more damage with immolate yes
it has a glyph to increase its damage
it effects both spells (you use both spells)
Once again both spells 12%
Increase damage of immolate ? nothing to do with it

So only 2 vaild are the immolate and the glyph...they make almost no difference if shadow bolt still hits harder and does more dps

[Jadugarr]

For me Incinerate > Shadow Bolt...Why?

1 - Do more damage on targets affected by an Immolate spell.
2 - Glyph of Incinerate - Increases the damage done by Incinerate by 5%.
3 - Impending Doom - Also grants your Shadow Bolt, Hand of Gul'dan, AND Incinerate spells a 5% chance to reduce the cooldown of your Demon Form by 15 sec.
4 - 3 points on Shadow and Flame - Increases the damage done by your Shadow Bolt AND Incinerate spells by 12%
5 - You can spend 3 points on Improved Immolate - Increases the damage done by your Immolate spell by 20%.

Math isn't subjective, shadow bolt is more DPS without molten core.

[Zinzerena]

REMOVED. Thanks everyone!

I don't to leave it and confuse people.

[Kopp]

the cast time for SB is to long, i use it for the 5% crit in the begg of my rotation and then use immolate as a filler

[Zinzerena]

the cast time for SB is to long, i use it for the 5% crit in the begg of my rotation and then use immolate as a filler

I think you mean Incinerate as a filler. But, I have Bane so the cast times are the same for me right now.

I guess that could be taken out if in fact ppl are wrong and with these new changes and Inc is the better filler spell. Plus with HoG refreshing Imm most of the time, I would worry less about the 0.5 sec cast reduction to Imm as well. Put points into Imp SF and Emberstorm at higher level. Cuz this also decreases cast time of Inc, making it seem even more efficient as the filler.

[Jessicka]

Shadow Bolt has a better coefficient with Spellpower due to it's longer base cast time.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/0...?s=7942&e=8170

You can see here, my Shadow Bolts are hitting about 10% harder than my MC procced Incinerates. I had neither glyphed, since I've been concentrating more on trying to fix my interface (hense weird numbers of casts, bad uptimes etc); but the 5% more damage from Incinerate glyph would not make up that difference, especially for Incinerates not cast under the proc.

[Zinzerena]

Thanks for the report Jessicka. Much appreciated. THAT is something I wanted to see and helps a lot. As I haven't raided yet and looking at my damage from 5 man PuGs really wasn't cutting it. Everything dies too fast or I'm just AoEing lol. And just "looking" at the spells and its 'read' of them and not knowing the coefficient of them; was what was confusing a bit.

I have been talking to some guild members about Inc vs. SB. It was a little undecided cuz the few I was talking to, none of us have the new coefficient of spells for this patch and the main Locks are Destro (they also weren't online). But they said if gear/sp scales more, then SB would do more damage if the spells haven't changed.

If anyone has the coefficient for SB and Inc UPDATED for 4.0.1, Would like to see them... just to see them. Thank you.

[Affectionate]

took off all gear with procs no other debuffs on the dummy, incinerated till 50 with immolate on the target, then sbolted till 50. kept the demo spec so I do have MC procs mixed in with incin data.

Incinerate:
hits 3334 - 3955 3485avg
crits 6964 - 8224 7709avg

averages overall: 2166dps(1.99 cast time)

shadow bolt: (recount showed min hit/crit @ 0.. not sure why)
hit 0-3881
crit 0-7871

averages overall: 2441dps (2.11 cast time)

even with molten core procs averaged in, Sbolt is better dps (read that carefully, cause obviously DURING MC incin > sbolt but if you're only casting incin, you're doing less dps than if you sbolt as filler)

even with 5% more on incinerate from glyph we're still only @ 2274dps vs. Shadowbolts 2441dps

disclaimer, 50 is a tiny sample size in the grand scheme of things, while incin had MC procs factored in, sbolt had 5% crit ISB factored in as well, all math counts as napkin math, if this post make you rage go get some fresh air.


tl;dr

sbolt is a better filler than incinerate, without question you should only be incinerating during MC procs.

[Zinzerena]

Ooh.. yeah. I do do SB as a filler and only Inc during MC procs. I alwayz have. It's just today when I came across this thread and read it, it seemed like Inc would do more damage just by the 'read' of the spells and it's Glyph. I just wanted to be absolutely sure that SB was still the better filler than Inc and that the 4.0.1 patch didn't change that.

Thanks for taking your time to test it out and post this.

[Deleted]

Procs from both SB and Incin

guess they changed it then