The Cat Guide - 4.3

[Williee]

H Shannox- Pew pew boss
H Beth- use to go boom 4 caves then back to cat and i dps up top
H Rhy- pew pew whichever legs r called and aoe adds
H Aly- interrupt casters and hatchling, never went up top
H Bael- pew pew boss
H Major- pew pew boss
For almost all the fights, I can shred except Majordomo when he leaps. Actually, i had a mastery build this week and i felt i outdps my haste reforge gear (same gear for both mastery/haste). Either i wasnt handling cat phase correctly when i was haste reforged, or mastery works out better for that fight.

Haste -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=16011&e=16595
^Granted that was our first time downing it, I had DI as well for that week :|
Mastery -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5693&e=6261
^This week, it felt the bleeds had a bigger effect for when the cat leaped. I know some ferals use ter charge for a free ravage but i tend to clip the fire spot left behind on the leaps.

[Sinfonia]

I reforged to hit/exp cap, have spent a lot of time on dummies and did a H BOT run to practice. Doesn't feel like much of a difference but the DPS I went with was an arcane mage, rogue and frost DK...

For curiosity's sake, could people post what their specific jobs on the 7 fireland (preferrably heroic) bosses are.... For example, are they going up on Alysrazor, etc. I'm the only cat, and we infrequently have a rogue, so I feel as if some of our strats are unintentionally ignorant to classes who need to be behind the boss as much as possible..

H:Shannox - DPS Shannox full time.
H:Rhyolith - Steer (DPS legs full time), our other cat gets to swipe spam adds.
H:Beth'tilac - Other cat and I go up top all three times.
H:Alysrazor - We're both in the interrupt rotations on both sides.
H:Baleroc - PEWPEW on the boss.
H:Majordomo - PEWPEW on the boss.
H:Rag Phase 1 - DPS the boss.
H:Rag Transition 1 - Get two stuns off, first from bear form, second using maim. DPS and maim as needed.
H:Rag Phase 2 - Get parried in front of boss (lol ), then move out to AoE Molten Elementals. Dodge engulfings/smashes, repeat.
H:Rag Transition 2 - Get two stuns off, first from bear form, second using maim. DPS my assigned side and rid it of Sons of Flame, then get on the Lava Scions.
H:Rag Phase 3 - DPS the sh#t out of the boss and dodge engulfings/smashes.
H:Rag Phase 4 - Pretend I'm a fireman.

[Djuntas]

On the matter of 391 weapon. I know the state values are very close on 378 (30 dps or some?), but Im thinking the upgraded BOE is still only slight better again? Im kinda tired of fire kitty by now aswell, its ofcourse fun and looks cool, but anyway I'll head for the upgraded BOE. Will be nice with high haste always, no worries for ragnaros trinket gearing.


9 Crit (0.05%) VS 299 Mastery (1.67)
284 Haste (2.22%)

[Xenerix]

Haste -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...=16011&e=16595
^Granted that was our first time downing it, I had DI as well for that week :|
Mastery -> http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5693&e=6261
^This week, it felt the bleeds had a bigger effect for when the cat leaped. I know some ferals use ter charge for a free ravage but i tend to clip the fire spot left behind on the leaps.

I was thinking about this as well. Probably gonna try heavy mastery reforge this week as well(since I don't have any new items). I was kinda suprised when I looked at WoL 1st place on hc Baleroc and Staghelm as feral and saw mastery reforge. I mean at least on static fights should be haste slightly ahead but when you think about it, these encounters are not so static at all, for example the links on Baleroc or even the short Staghelm's human forms when he casts seeds, you will sit few moments on 100 energy with haste reforge, probably even with mastery reforge but not so long and the bleeds are hitting harder in these moments.

---------- Post added 2011-09-01 at 02:23 PM ----------

So, I am constantly thinking about reforging options we currently have so I decided to spare some time checking the WoL and see which reforging option wins the encounters. Please don't take this as something you need to follow, it's just the statistics, nothing more and it is definitelly NOT objective but since it took some time, somebody might be interested in these informations.

I skipped Rhyolith because it is all about how much we are willing to aoe or what role do we have on that fight. As for Alysrazor, I considered only people who didn't fly in any part of encounter and who didn't tank the adds (many of "cat spec" have like 20% of their dmg by Maul and bear Mangle). Except Occu'thar and Ragnaros (not enought samples) it's all heroic 25man content, the first 3 places on each encounter.

And the last thing, I decided to show only reforging, not the player's nicks for obvious reasons.

Occu'thar
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit

Shannox HC
1) Um, kinda weird log so skipping it
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
4) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Beth'tilac HC
1) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Alysrazor HC
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Baleroc HC
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
3) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery

Majordomo Staghelm HC
1) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
2) hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit
3) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit

Ragnaros normal
1) hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery
2) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit
3) hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit



The final results
most 1st places:
hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit (4x)
hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery (3x)

most top3 places:
hit/exp -> haste -> crit -> mastery (11x)
hit/exp -> mastery -> haste -> crit (6x)
hit/exp -> haste -> mastery -> crit (4x)

As far as I remember, most players had similar gear, something around 385 - 388 ilvl with 391 weapon. As for trinkets, in 99% it was combination of APS/Hungerer/Matrix. Data were taken on 1.8.2011 and it is obvious that they can change literally anytime so please don't write I have something wrong there, it's quite possible.

[MasterNewbie]

I am willing to wager that mastery builds are topping H-Staghelm is because active bleeds retain the % damage buff after you've lost it yourself. I don't know what kind of uptime there generally is for it, but that's my theory. Last I checked, the 10th parser for H-Staghelm was a haste build.

[axxey]

Problem with the very top of the top is always the buff stacking above and beyond the normal available.

Baleroc #1 for example has dark intent, tricks of the trade, unholy frenzy lined up with every berserk etc.

Other fights dependant on how bad your other raid members/makeup are at AoE more than how far above average they personally are, leaving what portion of the pie for them to AoE.

[SmokeyIllidan]

I am willing to wager that mastery builds are topping H-Staghelm is because active bleeds retain the % damage buff after you've lost it yourself. I don't know what kind of uptime there generally is for it, but that's my theory. Last I checked, the 10th parser for H-Staghelm was a haste build.

This is wrong, the bleeds do not retain the legendary concentration bonus if you lose it while they are applied. At least I'm 90% of this based on my own experience. I had the #3 parse on Domo Heroic for a while, and I use a haste build. It's since been bumped down to #9, but I haven't done a parse with the new 391 weapon yet. I'm intrigued by this though, its such an annoyance favoring haste over mastery both for reforging, and when I have to go bear as haste is crap for them. It's a shame the way matrix is designed, otherwise I'm sure mastery would still be our top stat.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-4t.../?s=913&e=1424

That's the parse I had for Domo, good bleed up time but I think what really helped was good OOC procs during add phase, the swipe damage is rather high. 7 ravages isn't bad either, though I'm wondering what a good average number of ravages should be. I too have been attempting the feral leap when domo leaps out, however it can be tricky and if done wrong, you land in the fire momentarily and lose your buff.

[Williee]

How do you guys time your charges w/o clipping the fire he leaves behind when Domo leaps sometimes?
Ive tried it a few times only to lose my conc buff because i clip the fire.
Also, do you only swipe if its domo+ 1 add or you w8 til 2.
For my guild, I rarely get the chance to dps the adds. They live for about 5 seconds at most.

[MasterNewbie]

This is wrong, the bleeds do not retain the legendary concentration bonus if you lose it while they are applied.

That's slightly strange. I suppose it is like that so dot classes aren't as overpowered as they could be.

[Xenerix]

Ok, still testing haste vs mastery builds. Now on training dummy (yea I know I know, dummy is fail), 10 minutes. The difference in DPS between haste build and mastery build is about 1,5% for mastery (21,514 vs. 21,823). I was able to maintain +/- same uptime on bleeds and savage roar with like 1% difference. Anway, raid conditions should be slighly different so I will probably try heavy mastery build on hc Baleroc on Sunday.

Oh, and here is log with haste reforge on dummy:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...l1r/details/6/

and here with mastery reforge:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...tvg/details/0/

[Machida]

Ok, still testing haste vs mastery builds. Now on training dummy (yea I know I know, dummy is fail), 10 minutes. The difference in DPS between haste build and mastery build is about 1,5% for mastery (21,514 vs. 21,823). I was able to maintain +/- same uptime on bleeds and savage roar with like 1% difference. Anway, raid conditions should be slighly different so I will probably try heavy mastery build on hc Baleroc on Sunday.

Oh, and here is log with haste reforge on dummy:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...l1r/details/6/

and here with mastery reforge:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...tvg/details/0/

You also got quite lucky with CC procs on the mastery tries . even those up and haste would pull ahead .

[Mr.Pineapple]

silly question: aside from the awesomeness of turning into a fire kitty, why is fandrals staff better than ranseur in the Caps>Haste>Crit>Mastery build that is advised in this guide?

appologies if this has been answered before. i'm not reading through 2200 posts.

[SmokeyIllidan]

How do you guys time your charges w/o clipping the fire he leaves behind when Domo leaps sometimes?
Ive tried it a few times only to lose my conc buff because i clip the fire.
Also, do you only swipe if its domo+ 1 add or you w8 til 2.
For my guild, I rarely get the chance to dps the adds. They live for about 5 seconds at most.

When he leaps out, I take a step or two in the opposite direction as he comes closer, depending how far the ranged he leaped to actually was. This hopefully gives him enough travel time so I don't land in the fire. I've only started doing that recently though.

silly question: aside from the awesomeness of turning into a fire kitty, why is fandrals staff better than ranseur in the Caps>Haste>Crit>Mastery build that is advised in this guide?

appologies if this has been answered before. i'm not reading through 2200 posts.

Fandral's is 2nd BIS technically. But the difference is so minimal that most will choose Fandral's for the effect. However after having it a mere two days I don't feel as impressed by it as I was hoping. At some point I may use Heroic Ranseur for min/max. But it's really not a huge loss either way.

[calibro]

Better give hunters those 391-upgrade thingys, so you have fandral's and they have upgraded boe = raid dps wins ;D

[Machida]

How hard should it be for blizz to take the positional requirement off shred for pve but keep it on for pvp ?
is it even possible to do it ? kinda back to hating it now on ragnaros (p2 the most but also when you get unlucky with smash )

[Mihir]

While I don't think it's necessary anymore with the gear we've gotten since we started farming FL, I used a special spec with NR (18% passive reduction in bearform), and 3/3 Furor, sacrificing my interrupt and free ravage I think. This way, the healers had an easier time and I wouldn't lose as much DPS since I would start with 100 energy after switching back to cat. Stuff like making sure the bleeds are just refreshed going into bear form are nice too, just watch your threat as the bleed ticks will get the threat multiplier.

But I guess it really depends on your guild. Our DPS has always been phenomenal while our healers have held us back, so sacrificing some of my DPS so the healers would have an easier time came pretty naturally.

+20% healing taken > -18% dmg taken tbh

[tangedyn]

+20% healing taken > -18% dmg taken tbh

-18% damage taken is better than +20% healing, because of the way percentages work differently.

Let's say you take 100k damage.
With 2/2 Natural Instinct, your healers need to heal you (pre-NI) for 100000 / 1.2 = 83333
With 3/3 Perseverance, your healers need to heal you for 100000 * .82 = 82000

[Mihir]

*Natural Reaction, not Perseverance :P
yea you're right, but the 1% difference is not worth the loss in dps.

[Rioo]

-18% damage taken and +30% healing taken = win. At least in 10-man where RNG can really screw you over sometimes it's really good to be able to take 25 stacks easily without external CDs or the full focus of a healer.

[Ekthelion]

in 10-man maybe, but in 25-man 25 seconds of bear form is such a huge waste...