1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    in 10-man maybe, but in 25-man 25 seconds of bear form is such a huge waste...
    Deliberately stupid? You don't sit in bear form for 25seconds, just the last 10-15 when your cooldowns are actually important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xenerix View Post
    Ok, still testing haste vs mastery builds. Now on training dummy (yea I know I know, dummy is fail), 10 minutes. The difference in DPS between haste build and mastery build is about 1,5% for mastery (21,514 vs. 21,823). I was able to maintain +/- same uptime on bleeds and savage roar with like 1% difference. Anway, raid conditions should be slighly different so I will probably try heavy mastery build on hc Baleroc on Sunday.

    Oh, and here is log with haste reforge on dummy:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...l1r/details/6/

    and here with mastery reforge:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/p...tvg/details/0/
    Feral buff scaling makes target dummy pretty rough return, get an enhance shaman for windfury/SoE and a paladin or something for 10% AP. The missing 3% damage done and 4% physical taken effect scaling differences between the builds much less.
    The missing windfury especially skews the difference between them.

  2. #2182


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  3. #2183
    Cat haf meny clauz an wen sumbuddy tuch cat, maybee cat skrach him.

    Oh, this isn't that thread? Shame.

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  4. #2184
    Field Marshal Ekthelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    Deliberately stupid?...
    Why so mean answer? Stupid is being in bear form in fight where dps is so important .... oh wait, it's 10-man (now i'm mean:P)
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  5. #2185
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    Feral buff scaling makes target dummy pretty rough return, get an enhance shaman for windfury/SoE and a paladin or something for 10% AP. The missing 3% damage done and 4% physical taken effect scaling differences between the builds much less.
    The missing windfury especially skews the difference between them.
    Being grouped with either a frost DK (horn of winter + improved icy talons) or a shaman (strength of earth + windfury totem) would cover all relevant buffs rotation-wise, for the agi buff and the attack speed buff. The other buffs don't affect our rotation, just how hard we hit (+10% ap / +3% dmg / +4% physical damage)

  6. #2186
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    Why so mean answer? Stupid is being in bear form in fight where dps is so important .... oh wait, it's 10-man (now i'm mean:P)
    Don't bring that 10v25-man shit into this thread too. It's not like 25-man raids are hitting the enrage anymore with the nerf either. 10-man was about dealing with the RNG of countdown, improvising on the spot sometimes while still pumping out some crazy rDPS.

    Me going bear for a total of 10-15 sec on a fight that last 6 minutes won't wipe us or make me lose any game breaking DPS, especially with 3/3 Furor and refreshing my dots before switching. This is even more true on 25-man where one DPS makes less difference. What it will do is allowing healers to easily stack up their stacks so solo tanking won't be a problem, and can be a raid saver on those bad RNG tries that a 25-man raid wouldn't know about. One healer gets linked and that's half your healing force. Even without a blade active they'll need some help, especially when they still wore 359/372 gear.

  7. #2187
    Field Marshal Ekthelion's Avatar
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    You are accusing me of bringing 10v25 man shit, but you are doing exactly the same thing. Actually it seems that in such discussions regarding boss tactics this comparison can't be avoided. Statistically said, chance of getting countdown by a healer are very close in 10- and 25-man, assuming 2 healers in 10- and 5 healers in 25-man.
    Da Vuhdo iz wid'ya mon!

  8. #2188
    So... 4/5 t12 is something that we want really fast?

    And for those who already know (Mihir?) how much You're increasing the duration of Bersker with the 4piece? Aprox?


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    just roll a warrior. instead of crying about the imbalance - be the imbalance.

  9. #2189
    Great guide. It should be a sticky

  10. #2190
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    Last edited by Selverein; 2011-09-05 at 04:30 PM.

  11. #2191
    Quote Originally Posted by Thudin View Post
    And for those who already know (Mihir?) how much You're increasing the duration of Bersker with the 4piece? Aprox?
    Depending on crit rng, around 14 seconds if everything goes well enough. Your mileage may vary.
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  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    Running with 2k+ haste has the risk of energy capping during haste procs/lust.

  13. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by malloyevelyn110 View Post
    Great guide. It should be a sticky
    It is a sticky

  14. #2194
    Field Marshal Ekthelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterNewbie View Post
    Running with 2k+ haste has the risk of energy capping during haste procs/lust.
    I think with the aggresive FB "rotation" capping energy during zerk + lust + both haste trinket procs shouldn't be much of a problem even at this lvl of haste.

    ---------- Post added 2011-09-06 at 08:24 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    I'm just curious how many haste did you have when Mew told you it's your worst stat. I had over 1.9k at some point and it still told me it's my best stat with the weight over 1.40.
    And try to make the simulations more accurate by increasing number of iterations (i think in some post Mew author suggested 100k iterations), although i know it increases the calculations time...
    Da Vuhdo iz wid'ya mon!

  15. #2195
    Quote Originally Posted by Ekthelion View Post
    You are accusing me of bringing 10v25 man shit, but you are doing exactly the same thing. Actually it seems that in such discussions regarding boss tactics this comparison can't be avoided. Statistically said, chance of getting countdown by a healer are very close in 10- and 25-man, assuming 2 healers in 10- and 5 healers in 25-man.
    True story and no offence to 10man raiders/guilds but baleroc and Domo are faceroll on 10man hc compared to 25man. Also since you shouldn't take more than 13 stacks and that ticks around 40k with barkskin up(25 man version) means no reason to go bear form at all, unless your healers are really bad and got carried to hc achivs by rest doing everything to make easyer to them.

  16. #2196
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    I have a strange problem that I'll need some help to solve.

    I finally got Domo's staff yesterday, heroic version too, and thought I'd plug my new stats in Mew to figure out how to tweak my reforging. So at first it tells me Haste is higher than ever which is no surprise cause I upgraded from normal Malevolence. I changed some reforges, try to keep Hit/Exp as high as I can without reforging to them (only 3T12 yet), try to get some Haste on every piece of gear, etc.

    Then I plugged my new numbers in Mew and it now tells me Haste has become my worst stat. I ran the sim a few times and every time without fail it is last (~1.08), with Hit/Exp on top (~1.28). Even weirder, I decided to put in 2000 Hit and Exp in my stats sheet, and it still tells me they're the best stats. Did I break Mew somehow?

    Sim parameters: 10k iterations, 360s fight duration with 20% random, reseed the RNG, and the rest default.
    Stats: 1.9k Haste, 1.4k Mastery, 1k Crit, 7.16% Hit, 5% Exp.
    And armory if it helps any: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...beast/advanced

    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    i still use hc malevolence, 2xT11 & 2xT12,

    I did ran mew whit 10K intertation it said haste was my best stat and mastery was 2nd both whit a 0.05% error
    so i wanted to try out reforging i substracted 300 mastery and added 300 haste and it showed mastey became better again and haste went dont on the list (again whit 0.05% error)

    i was surprised myzelf
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  17. #2197
    Guys what do u think about fiery claw? I cant make it not to drop after berserk and i loose all bonus. You guys worry about dropping fiery claw or it is not so important or making this debuff not to drop is just impossible?

  18. #2198
    Quote Originally Posted by Selverein View Post
    Edit: Unreforged my APS and it seems to have "fixed" the problem. 1760 Haste, 1575 Mastery. So I guess there is such a thing as too much Haste?
    Yes there can be such a thing as too much haste. The more you put into one secondary stat (and out of other secondary stats) the more valuable those other stats get. So aside from possible capping your energy regen during berserk you could (at least theoretically) get to a point where your seemingly best secondary stat isn't the best stat anymore. But there is no simple answer to when this happens.

  19. #2199
    Field Marshal Ekthelion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caetes View Post
    Guys what do u think about fiery claw? I cant make it not to drop after berserk and i loose all bonus. You guys worry about dropping fiery claw or it is not so important or making this debuff not to drop is just impossible?
    I think you shouldn't bother more about fiery claws than "kewl, i get some bonus damage, nice!". And I don't understand, what do you mean by losing all bonus. I think there are more important things to worry about
    Da Vuhdo iz wid'ya mon!

  20. #2200
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    whenever you refrst a buff you also refresh it whit new stats so you do loose boneses
    Eitherway feiry claws is unaffected by such things as the remaining damage is added to the new dot so there is no problem in loosing it.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

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