1. #2701
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Hey Mihir, can you double check the dps value of Glyph of Tiger's Fury in T13 4-piece? I know in Rawr it's coming up as being the third glyph to use (behind Rake and Berserk)

  2. #2702
    4T13:
    GoR: 983
    GoM: 652
    GoBe: 650
    GoTF: 509

    From that list he posted. I'm not sure if shredding instead would change anything else, but I doubt it'd cover the 100 dps difference between TF and Bl, and for normal fights GoMangle will be much less valuable than 652 dps. TF should be the 3rd glyph for normal fights based on that, with Mangle swapped in for TF for Ultraxion.

    Wait a tick, those top 3 glyphs are my usual bear tanking glyphs! Woooooooooooooooooooooooooo! (now I just need to spec BitW).
    Last edited by Braindwen; 2011-11-14 at 11:12 PM.

  3. #2703
    The 3 second shorter CD on your free ravage from 4pc I imagine being worth it by itself, TF CD changing actually changes how you execute rotation some as well however.
    TF glyph is also VERY dependant on being able to 100% uptime on boss when you hit it, being able to hit it the second comes off CD to make glyph worth anything.

  4. #2704
    I haven't been updated on this front since patch 4.1, so any answered questions is appreciated.

    Is it worth taking Glyph of Ferocious Bite now? I don't see what harm it could do swapping it with Glyph of Faerie Fire.

    I heard Unheeded Warning had lost its value by quite a bit (1926 AP replacing 680 weapon damage), but I reckon it's still superior to blue trinkets? Or well, I just need to know whether its place in the trinket list in the guide is updated and correct at the moment.

    If I were to use Glyph og Tiger's Fury, would it be worth waiting those few seconds after falling off to reapply Rip, so that I can strengthen it with TF?

    Lastly, the major question, or problem if you want. I just downloaded the new version of Mew, and I can certainly tell it has changed since last time I used it. I wanted to see where my DPS was on a training dummy with my outdated gear and itemisation, using no buffs. When I compared it to Mew, it turned out to be a rather significant discrepancy. Whereas I got 16k DPS in-game the first time and 17.2k DPS the second time, Mew simulates approximately 14750 DPS as optimal.

    Here is the report:
    Code:
    {BonusArmor=0, WeaponSpeed=100000, Strength=116, Talent.Survival Instincts=1, BloodInTheWaterTime=0.25, Buff.UnholyFrenzy=false, Debuff.Armor=true, Mew.Class=yawning.mew.cat.CatModelSimulation, Buff.Crit=true, Talent.Pulverize=0, Talent.Perseverance=0, Glyph of Mangle=false, Talent.Berserk=1, Target.CastInterval=0, Bug.BerserkProcRate=true, Stamina=5180, Talent.Heart of the Wild=3, Simulator.Rebirth=false, Glyph of Frenzied Regeneration=false, DodgeRating=0, Talent.Fury Swipes=3, Talent.Primal Fury=2, TalentSpec=Feral Combat, Simulator.Threads=0, Buff.DarkIntent=false, Buff.MajorHaste=false, Buff.Stamina=false, Buff.PhysicalDamageIncoming=false, Simulator.PrePotion=false, Simulator.FeralChargeTravelTime=2, Talent.Endless Carnage=2, Talent.Furor=2, Target.CastLength=0, Debuff.SpellVuln=false, Pivot.StatScale=0, Simulator.AssumeExternalBleed=false, Talent.Thick Hide=0, Glyph of Berserk=false, Buff.TricksOfTheTrade=false, Pivot.GenerateRsv=false, Glyph of Shred=true, MetaGem=Agile, Buff.APMult=false, Glyph of Lacerate=false, Debuff.SpellCrit=false, Talent.Feral Aggression=2, Race=Tauren, Talent.Predatory Strikes=2, Simulator.PRNG=org.apache.commons.math.random.Well19937c, Buff.StatMult=false, Talent.Stampede=2, HasteRating=672, Talent.Blood in the Water=2, MasteryRating=1814, Talent.Master Shapeshifter=1, Talent.Natural Reaction=0, ExpertiseRating=243, Procs.items=59520, Simulator.StrategyArg=, Debuff.PhysVuln=false, Simulator.AssumeExternalFF=false, Talent.Feral Swiftness=2, Buff.AgiStr=false, Level=85, Bug.GlyphOfShredSimCraft=false, Debuff.BleedDmg=true, Simulator.Iterations=10000, Glyph of Rip=true, Simulator.Tranquility=false, Armor=10121, Tier_12_4pc=false, Simulator.DurationJitter=0, Talent.Feral Charge=1, Agility=4502, Glyph of Tiger's Fury=true, Tier_12_2pc=false, Simulator.AggressiveFeralCharge=true, AttackPower=445, WeaponTop=62331, ArmorSpec=true, Simulator.HighResHz=false, Bug.PooledProcEffects=true, Simulator.Duration=200, WeaponBottom=62329, Debuff.ShatteringThrow=false, Simulator.GenerateLog=false, Buff.SpellHaste=false, Tier_11_4pc=false, Class=Druid, Simulator.AssumeExternalMangle=false, Talent.Primal Madness=2, Buff.MeleeHaste=false, Glyph of Savage Roar=false, Talent.Rend and Tear=3, Talent.Leader of the Pack=1, Glyph of Feral Charge=true, Simulator.FrontalAttacks=false, HitRating=649, Tier_11_2pc=true, Pivot.ReseedPRNG=false, Talent.Infected Wounds=0, Talent.King of the Jungle=3, PvP_gloves=false, Buff.DamageMult=false, Talent.Brutal Impact=2, Buff.Armor=false, CritRating=1317}
    
    DPS: 14755.29059 +/- 8.6428
    Min/Max DPS: 13182.175 / 16484.51
    StdDev: 440.95926
    
    DPS (> 25%): 14464.97518
    DPS (< 25%): 15626.23684
    
    Resource Stats:
     Energy:
      Energy gained: 2586.1357
       Passive: 2105
       King of the Jungle: 420
       Primal Madness: 61.1357
        Average energy gain: 6.79286
      Energy overflow: 6.8116
      Energy spent: 2669.1187
      Omen of Clarity:
       Nr. OoC procs: 10.4504
        Procs spent: 10.4141
        Procs wasted: 0.0224
       Effective PPM: 3.13512
       Average energy return: 33.16974
      Berserk:
       Nr. Berserks: 2
       Average duration: 14.41186 sec
       Uptime: 14.41186%
      Effective regen. rate: 17.50917 e/s
     Combo Points:
      Combo Points gained: 105.5335
       Primal Fury: 28.7513
      Combo Points overflow: 20.9443
      Combo Points spent: 82.4853
      Gen. rate: 0.52767 cp/s
    
    Ability Overview:
     White Attack damage: 17.14195%
      Uptime: 93.73877%
      Swing timer: 0.9664 sec
     Fury Swipes damage: 3.11457%
      Interval: 9.87479 sec
     Ravage damage: 5.56744%
     Mangle damage: 1.30731%
      Energy spent: 4.94887%
      OoC spent: 2.94535%
      DPE: 257.33644
     Shred damage: 24.9533%
      Energy spent: 53.77878%
      OoC spent: 83.77654%
      DPE: 332.37269
     Rake damage: 18.81944%
      Energy spent: 18.41591%
      OoC spent: 4.54811%
      DPE: 977.25108
     Rip damage: 24.28865%
      Energy spent: 6.74509%
      OoC spent: 3.92203%
      CPs spent: 41.06267%
      DPE: 2422.87041
     Ferocious Bite damage: 4.80733%
      Energy spent: 7.48803%
      OoC spent: 3.49781%
      CPs spent: 36.25341%
      DPE: 542.64085
     Savage Roar:
      Energy spent: 6.00059%
      CPs spent: 22.68392%
      DPE: 1314.39691
    
    Tiger's Fury:
     Nr. Tiger's Furys: 7
     Interval: 28.57143 sec
     Uptime: 21%
     Ravage coverage: 92.62579%
     Mangle coverage: 48.62762%
     Shred coverage: 30.87995%
     Rake coverage: 52.55276%
     Rip coverage: 36.58234%
     Ferocious Bite coverage: 23.01526%
    
    Feral Charge:
     Nr. Feral Charges: 7
    
    Savage Roar:
     Nr. Savage Roars: 6.7021
     Average CP cost: 2.38
     Uptime: 95.22472%
    
    Target - Yawningstrasza:
     Target Debuffs:
      Major Armor uptime: 99.61763%
      Bleed Damage uptime: 99.14773%
    
     White Attack:
      DPS: 2527.92437
      Nr. White Attacks: 193.9969
      Miss/Dodge/Glance/Crit/Hit: 2.62502%/4.49029%/23.93029%/33.53473%/35.41967%
      Average damage: 2606.14679
    
     Fury Swipes:
      DPS: 459.67454
      Nr. Fury Swipes: 19.4485
      Miss/Dodge/Crit/Hit: 2.59739%/4.44267%/31.32254%/61.6374%
      Average damage: 4727.23574
    
     Ravage:
      DPS: 821.25785
      Nr. Ravages: 7.5065
      Miss/Dodge/Crit/Hit: 2.31349%/4.05709%/71.71323%/21.91619%
      Average damage: 22072.24365
    
     Mangle:
      DPS: 192.87105
      Nr. Mangles: 4.307
      Miss/Dodge/Crit/Hit: 2.10755%/3.6564%/31.6402%/62.59585%
      Uptime: 99.14773%
      Average damage: 9087.41843
    
     Shred:
      DPS: 3684.08302
      Nr. Shreds: 54.736
      Miss/Dodge/Crit/Hit: 2.59852%/4.41573%/31.18343%/61.80232%
      Average damage: 13477.45
    
     Rake:
      DPS: 2775.53754
      Direct Damage:
       DPS: 476.70834
       Nr. Rakes: 16.1017
      Miss/Dodge/Crit/Hit: 2.43719%/4.22372%/31.40835%/61.93074%
       Average damage: 5947.42629
      DoT:
       DPS: 2298.8292
       Nr. ticks: 64.9555
       Crit/Hit: 33.51541%/66.48459%
       Average damage: 7078.18013
      Uptime: 98.7417%
    
     Rip:
      DPS: 3583.22577
      Nr. Rips: 7.2532
       Nr. Rips (> 25%): 7.1838
       Nr. Rips (< 25%): 0.0694
      Miss/Dodge/Hit: 2.17139%/3.87625%/93.95236%
      DoT:
       DPS: 3583.22577
       Nr. ticks: 91.1904
       Crit/Hit: 33.52074%/66.47926%
       Average damage: 7859.08534
      Uptime: 91.69352%
    
     Ferocious Bite:
      DPS: 710.71643
      Nr. Ferocious Bites: 6.6065
       Nr. Ferocious Bites (> 25%): 2.1347
       Nr. Ferocious Bites (< 25%): 4.4718
      Miss/Dodge/Crit/Hit: 2.29378%/3.95038%/54.82486%/38.93098%
      Average extra energy: 14.53045
      Average damage: 21735.64968
    
    Trinkets/Procs:
     Unheeded Warning uptime: 19.57856%
    
    
    Elapsed Time: 11.827833523 seconds

    I would greatly appreciate it if someone could point out wrong settings or whatnot. I wouldn't mind recommendations on which settings to use, either, if I'm using sub-optimal ones.

    Edit: Mew doesn't account for one of my trinkets' procs, because it's not in the list, but that shouldn't cover the considerable difference in DPS alone.
    Last edited by Arctagon; 2011-11-14 at 11:58 PM.

  5. #2705
    Glyph of Ferocious Bite that glyph? Nah
    (edit: tooltip may or may not work, anyway, check it, glyph was changed)

  6. #2706
    That's exactly why I brought it up. Because it was changed. I'd rather use GoFB occasionally heal myself, than use a glyph (GoFFire) that I don't really need.

  7. #2707
    Please note that Glyph of Tiger's Fury is not likely to overtake Glyph of Bloodletting if you use a 1 min activated trinket like APS or Kiroptyric Sigil, and synch up the activation of the trinket with the activation of Tiger's Fury. Mew Formulation and Rawr will NOT give you the correct results in this case because they cannot handle the concept of synchronized activations, while Mew Simulation (and possibly Simcraft) can.

  8. #2708
    Major glyphs are generally open to preference.

    Regarding UW, it's been considered that the only blue trinket better than it is Tia's Grace. Though you should try to go for Fluid Death at some point. Typically speaking, you will want to rip when you need to. There is a grace period of 2 seconds of waiting on TF for it to be dps-positive, otherwise you lose dps. I would recommend against GoTF, as it will make it more difficult to sync TF with rake and other procs (such as Ancient Petrified Seed proc).

    About your dummy dps, how long do you stay on the dummy? The agi proc is actually a decent deal. I averaged out the proc and added that amount to your base agi (it was approximately 311 agi) and the dps it spat out was 15.6k, which would put it in the range of your dummy trials.

  9. #2709
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    Also I'm seeing conflicting reports of Kiroptyric Sigil having a 60 second cooldown (MMO-C) and a 90 second cooldown (Wowhead).
    db.mmo-champ is rounding down the cooldown for some reason, it's 90sec on the ptr and on wowhead.

    Also, I seem to have trouble staying below the expertise cap, with expertise on relic, tier gloves, tier legs, belt, boots and ring. :/
    Even with reforging expertise away on every item, I end up at 839 exp rating. (and on the boots i'd rather be reforging haste->mastery)
    Last edited by Mihir; 2011-11-15 at 11:25 AM.

  10. #2710
    I still have question about secondary stats order in 4.3 depending on set bonuses, so:
    2p13 bonus:
    mastery: it's affect rip dmg that will have a bit longer duration due to it's refreshed
    haste: affect energy regeneration and melee attacks with set bonuses not really usefull coz of small amout it gives
    crit: more crits=> more double CP => more often FB and rip refreshing in time
    hit/exp: less misses more CP=> a bit often FB and not wasting energy or some attacks
    4p13 bonus:
    mastery: not affecting TF or Ravage!
    haste: not affecting TF or Ravage!
    crit: If Ravage! is always crit on proc, so it also not really affecting bonus, otherwise it more dmg
    haste/exp: not giving a chance to miss on Revange!

    well, I'm not really a pro in stats numbers investigation, so if I mistaken somewhere fix me plz,
    so I want detailed explanation about why mastery `is king` again what about haste&crit and should I foget about hit/exp cap again or not ?
    Last edited by Zstr; 2011-11-15 at 04:30 PM.

  11. #2711
    Field Marshal Ekthelion's Avatar
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    Ravage!...pls it's "Ravage!" Anyway I think Mihir posted the result of his huge sims some time ago. And for sure we can't call mastery "the king" because its difference is not as big as you think it would.
    Da Vuhdo iz wid'ya mon!

  12. #2712
    MasterNewbie: Thank you for the response. I was using GoTF merely for the purpose of comparing the DPS prior and subsequent to replacing my old gear and updating reforges, enchants and gems. I do plan on purchasing Fluid Death, obviously, but I'm currently short of JP.

    Quote Originally Posted by MasterNewbie View Post
    About your dummy dps, how long do you stay on the dummy? The agi proc is actually a decent deal. I averaged out the proc and added that amount to your base agi (it was approximately 311 agi) and the dps it spat out was 15.6k, which would put it in the range of your dummy trials.
    Most likely not long enough. I stayed there for about three minutes. I just ran another test, having replaced GoTF with GoB, staying on the dummy for almost seven minutes, and changing the strategy somewhat (like not waiting for TF to come off CD before reapplying Rip, unless TF is right about coming off). I ended up with slightly above 15.7k DPS, but I don't feel my execution was quite optimal--I did a few mistakes. I then did another attempt, still around seven minutes, but not quite optimal this time either. It resulted in slightly more than 16k DPS.

    This is still quite a bit more than what Mew says is optimal. In contrast to the previous simulation, I added 320 agility ((10s / 53s) * 1710) to account for my second trinket, swapped GoTF with GoB, put Encounter Duration Randomization to 10%, and ticked off Randomize RNG Seed and High Resolution Timer. The simulated DPS landed at approximately 15450. How did you get 15.6k?
    Last edited by Arctagon; 2011-11-15 at 01:14 PM.

  13. #2713
    When I run a Mew sim I usually set it at 480s with 20% randomization w/ high res timer. Aside from the agi change, nothing else was touched.

  14. #2714
    Hm, by using those settings the DPS dropped by 100, placing it 300 DPS below you. Not that significant, but still. I don't know what kind of scenario Mew is currently using, but maybe it's something more complex than I arranged, which could explain the optimal DPS being less than what I pulled.

  15. #2715
    Quote Originally Posted by Zstr View Post
    crit: If Ravage! is always crit on proc, so it also not really affecting bonus, otherwise it more dmg
    haste/exp: not giving a chance to miss on Revange!
    Ravage! does not always crit. And you probably meant hit/exp. If I remember correctly the proc won't vanish on a miss.

  16. #2716
    I think they meant Predatory Strikes - not that it meant a guaranteed crit even above 80% enemy HP.

  17. #2717
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Also, I seem to have trouble staying below the expertise cap, with expertise on relic, tier gloves, tier legs, belt, boots and ring. :/
    Even with reforging expertise away on every item, I end up at 839 exp rating. (and on the boots i'd rather be reforging haste->mastery)
    That is why I went with the Cystalized Firestone upgrade to the relic. That should bring you below the expertise cap.

  18. #2718
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinalover View Post
    That is why I went with the Cystalized Firestone upgrade to the relic. That should bring you below the expertise cap.
    Apparently he is talking about the future tier 13 items not tier 12.

  19. #2719
    Is there any specific way to go when purchasing VP items? I'm not sure if I can rely on legs and hands dropping from BH. If I were to do so, however, there might not be any point in starting with T12 chest?

  20. #2720
    Chest and legs have the same price and item budget, and thus a similar upgrade value when looking at currently equipped items of the same lower iLvl. The decisive point here, however weak, is indeed that the legs might drop from BH. (another point may be that the chest has better sockets, and that the "epic" chest enchant is way cheaper than the leg armor)
    So, chest first. Though, if you would be breaking 2T11 with your first piece of T12, you might want to wait until you have acquired two pieces.

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