1. #2721
    Warchief Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Healingftw View Post
    Apparently he is talking about the future tier 13 items not tier 12.
    I understood what he was getting at, but I'm just saying in my BiS list, I actually have the Crystallized Firestone as my relic due to the crap-ton amount of expertise blizzard put onto the T13 gear. It's great for Bears, but for Kitties, it's too much.

  2. #2722
    Nathanyel: Thank you for your reply.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    (another point may be that the chest has better sockets, and that the "epic" chest enchant is way cheaper than the leg armor)
    I am a leatherworker.

    Though, if you would be breaking 2T11 with your first piece of T12, you might want to wait until you have acquired two pieces.
    Obviously. Although, I'm about to purchase the T11 chest so that I can replace the T11 gloves with the Molten Front gloves. When I eventually come to the point of purchasing the T12 chest, I can alternatively go back to the T11 gloves in order to retain the set bonus, despite diminishing the quality of the hands slot. I'm quite certain that would result in a DPS increase, due to the chest piece being of superior quality (in comparison to the hands slot's reduction) in addition to having a greater stat budget.

  3. #2723
    Quote Originally Posted by Arctagon View Post
    I am a leatherworker.
    Uh... well, Peerless Stats is still closer to the cost of Dragonbone Leg Reinforcements than to that of Dragonscale Leg Armor :P

    Molten Front gloves are indeed an interesting dynamic due to the mid-tier iLvl and good secondary stats.

  4. #2724
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Preliminary stat weights based on 4.3 bis gear simulations with the latest version of mew (with some custom modifications to determine the value of haste better):

    Weapon DPS: 7.10
    Agility: 4.95
    Mastery: 1.99
    Haste: 1.97
    Hit/Exp: 1.91
    Crit: 1.86

  5. #2725
    Thanks Mihir, haste and mastery for sure close. Anyway once we break our firelands set-bonuses on live, we'll like mastery more right away I'll take it?

    Has your BIS changed you posted a few pages back by the way? It seems correct to me atleast.

  6. #2726
    Quick thought, can't run it through any sim at this computer, does 2T13 (ideally both pieces normal, but more likely 1 normal and 1 RF) justify breaking 4T12?

  7. #2727
    The secondary stats jump from 1.20s to 1.90s in one tier? Interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Uh... well, Peerless Stats is still closer to the cost of Dragonbone Leg Reinforcements than to that of Dragonscale Leg Armor :P
    What? Sounds like either your or my realm's economy is weird. Blackened Dragonscales are priced at less than 20g each, making Dragonbone Leg Reinforcements' value 30-40g. The Peerless Stats enchant is priced at over 600g, and its ingredients' prices vary between more expensive and cheaper than the enchant itself. I wouldn't call that price difference insignificant.

    Molten Front gloves are indeed an interesting dynamic due to the mid-tier iLvl and good secondary stats.
    Agreed.

  8. #2728
    Hmm, Wowhead seems to agree with you and lists a medium of 200G for the crystals, though I'm kinda used to seeing them at around 80G o.O and most of the time, I'm using the crystals I got from Zul runs anyway. The Agi and Sta leg armors, on the other hand, which I had the honor to switch a few times on my heroic pants in the last weeks, were always 700+, more often 800+

  9. #2729
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    If you don't lose out on ilvl, it should be worth it. So going from 2x391 T12 to 397+384 T13 should be a small upgrade, but going from 2x391 T12 to 2x 384 T13 should be dps-neutral / downgrade.

    On that note, going to 4T13 is always worth it, even if you're going from 4x391 T12 to 4x384 T13
    Last edited by Mihir; 2011-11-17 at 01:06 PM.

  10. #2730
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathanyel View Post
    Hmm, Wowhead seems to agree with you and lists a medium of 200G for the crystals, though I'm kinda used to seeing them at around 80G o.O and most of the time, I'm using the crystals I got from Zul runs anyway. The Agi and Sta leg armors, on the other hand, which I had the honor to switch a few times on my heroic pants in the last weeks, were always 700+, more often 800+
    The Maelstrom Crystals are usually priced at 120-150g, but I found some for 90g each yesterday evening. With my luck on drops I usually never receive any of the crystals from the boss loot, so I will have to hurl gold at those bastard goblin auctioneers. Last time I checked, the leg armours were 1000+ gold on my realm.

  11. #2731
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arctagon View Post
    The secondary stats jump from 1.20s to 1.90s in one tier? Interesting.
    Mostly due to the 10% ap buff and the insane amount of agility on items in Dragon Soul.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-17 at 02:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightelfsb View Post
    Thanks Mihir, haste and mastery for sure close. Anyway once we break our firelands set-bonuses on live, we'll like mastery more right away I'll take it?

    Has your BIS changed you posted a few pages back by the way? It seems correct to me atleast.
    Not yet, tho if the current amounts of expertise stay the same I might have to change something around to get rid of some... (nonset gloves, diff ring, or diff relic are the best options).

  12. #2732
    4T13 is obviously worth it Got heroic shoulders and pants now, should be able to get RF helm/gloves by the time I get a token for the normal chest. Well, mostly bear atm anyway, though :/ hope we're getting another tank until 4.3 :P

    *edit* no T13 through VP >_<

  13. #2733
    I know, but I still find it interesting, or amusing if that suits better, because it's the first time the secondary stats take such a leap between two tiers this expansion. It certainly helps in balancing melee and ranged.

    Edit: Nathanyel, what's your character's name? Can't find you on the Armoury. :<
    Last edited by Arctagon; 2011-11-17 at 01:26 PM.

  14. #2734
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    4.3 valor upgrade table:

    ilvl you're upgrading from | slot | dps increase | valor cost | dps/valor

    378/391 trinket 868 1650 0.526 *
    378 back (nodf) 516 1250 0.413 **
    378 waist 601 1650 0.364
    378 finger 442 1250 0.354
    378 feet 517 1650 0.313
    378 chest 619 2200 0.281
    378 wrist 340 1250 0.272 ****
    378 head 593 2200 0.270
    378 relic 183 700 0.261
    378 hands 408 1650 0.247
    391 waist 305 1650 0.185
    391 finger 227 1250 0.181
    384 neck 226 1250 0.181
    391 feet 270 1650 0.164
    391 hands 179 1650 0.108
    391 chest 231 2200 0.105
    391 wrist 119 1250 0.095 ****
    391 head 202 2200 0.092
    391 relic 56 700 0.080
    378 back (df) 97 1250 0.077 ***

    * 378 ancient petrified seed or 378/391 the hungerer. 397 kiroptyric sigil is bis, always get this first
    ** 378 reputation cloak
    *** 378 dreadfire drape
    **** crafted bracers are better, better skip this
    Last edited by Mihir; 2011-11-18 at 08:28 AM.

  15. #2735
    Bloodsail Admiral Madkitty's Avatar
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    When 4.3 hits and the 10% extra AP is added. Using 4 set T12, will the stat weights change on release? Understand that mastery will be top in the BiS DS gear. Also i assume those values are for a static patchwerk boss, do the encounters in DS favour specific reforging.

    I can understand why glyph of bloodletting may have a lower value with the Blood in the Water activating from 60%, but confused as to why mangle is rated second, will we be using it enough for it be making the most out of the glyph? (if u can shred, you should be shredding so you only gain the benefit every minute when you refresh it)

  16. #2736
    Has an official rotation come out on how to deal with our 4-piece? Does the TF ravage consume our stampede ravage if stacked or both procced. How will running out to use our stampede ravage while TF is up feel and work on a majority of bosses?

  17. #2737
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Preliminary stat weights based on 4.3 bis gear simulations with the latest version of mew (with some custom modifications to determine the value of haste better):

    Weapon DPS: 7.10
    Agility: 4.95
    Mastery: 1.99
    Haste: 1.97
    Hit/Exp: 1.91
    Crit: 1.86
    Looks similar to what I've been getting. What's the 95% CI on your values?

  18. #2738
    Quote Originally Posted by Ledonn View Post
    Has an official rotation come out on how to deal with our 4-piece? Does the TF ravage consume our stampede ravage if stacked or both procced. How will running out to use our stampede ravage while TF is up feel and work on a majority of bosses?
    Speaking of this, I'm not sure if it was already asked here, but how do you guys feel about, during the Nom Nom Nom phase, FB just after you applied/refreshed Rip with TF active? (as that with remove the damage bonus)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arctagon View Post
    Edit: Nathanyel, what's your character's name? Can't find you on the Armoury. :<
    Nulgar of Mug'thol EU (or, from Vanilla until 5 or 6 weeks ago, Kel'Thuzad)
    But don't look at it (despite my link) half of my gear is reforged for tank

  19. #2739
    Quote Originally Posted by Ledonn View Post
    Has an official rotation come out on how to deal with our 4-piece? Does the TF ravage consume our stampede ravage if stacked or both procced. How will running out to use our stampede ravage while TF is up feel and work on a majority of bosses?
    Basically, if Stampede is up, always Ravage before TFing

  20. #2740
    So we don't want to try to fit in both stampedes and refresh rake within the time frame of TF? Is it impossible due to time restraints on TF and how long it takes us to run out to be within minimum range of FL?

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