1. #1761
    Field Marshal Obblivion's Avatar
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    Where would you put the 378 Ancient Petrified Seed on the trinket list given that a person knows how to use it (as in won't just forget about the "use" and won't have issues with noticing stronger spell already in use)?

  2. #1762
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simbah View Post
    how much expertise do i need?
    as stated on the first page you dont need any so 0.
    hopwever if you get 2xT12 or 4xT12 it will becomes more usefull to get 26 exp, however will never be your best stat
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  3. #1763
    How does the 2200 pvp weapon rate against the 378 Boe polearm and firekitty staff? I know most won't see the pvp weapon for another 6 weeks but might be longer for some to see any heroic weapons.

  4. #1764
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obblivion View Post
    Where would you put the 378 Ancient Petrified Seed on the trinket list given that a person knows how to use it (as in won't just forget about the "use" and won't have issues with noticing stronger spell already in use)?
    As long as you use the 2T11 bonus, it ranks above T11.372 trinkets but below T12.378 trinkets / unheeded warning. Once you drop 2T11 and get 4T12 instead, it drops in value to below the T11 372 trinkets.

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-16 at 05:07 PM ----------

    Added APS / RMF trinkets to the trinket list. It's now:

    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69150/m
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69112/t
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68994/m
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59520/u
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68927/t
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69001/a (with 2T11 bonus)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/65140/e (with 4T12 bonus)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/65026/p
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/65140/e (without 4T12 bonus)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/70144/r
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69001/a (without 2T11 bonus)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/58181/f (*)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/56394/t (*)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59441/p
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59473/e
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/56328/k
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/56427/l
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/62463/u
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/55874/t (*)
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/56295/g
    http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/56440/s
    Last edited by Mihir; 2011-07-16 at 03:13 PM.

  5. #1765
    The OP needs to be updated to reflect 4.2 secondary stat scalings.

    They are extremely close to each other. There's not really a clear-cut best until you are getting close to the 390 levels, at which point haste pulls marginally ahead, or if you are holding onto 2T11, in which cast mastery is slightly ahead. Crit, haste, and hit/expertise cap builds are all pretty much up in the air, at least in the low and mid gear levels, simming out to less than 200 DPS difference between each other in Mew, with a standard deviation of something ridiculous like ~500. For those of you not well versed in statistics, that more or less means they are all equal most of the time. Info here:

    http://fluiddruid.net/2011/06/4-2-an...condary-stats/

    I personally have switched to a build that caps hit/exp and then prefers haste. Perhaps this is 10 dps less on a Patchwerk than what I had before, but I think it's going to be much stronger on Beth'tilac and Alysrazor. We shall see how it goes on Monday...

  6. #1766
    Field Marshal Obblivion's Avatar
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    Thanks for the trinket update, much appreciated.
    Last edited by Obblivion; 2011-07-17 at 04:24 PM.

  7. #1767
    Just dinged 85.

    Is tier 11 pieces bis pre-raid? Does someone have any decent pre-raid 4.2 items list?

  8. #1768
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevoman View Post
    The OP needs to be updated to reflect 4.2 secondary stat scalings.

    They are extremely close to each other. There's not really a clear-cut best until you are getting close to the 390 levels, at which point haste pulls marginally ahead, or if you are holding onto 2T11, in which cast mastery is slightly ahead. Crit, haste, and hit/expertise cap builds are all pretty much up in the air, at least in the low and mid gear levels, simming out to less than 200 DPS difference between each other in Mew, with a standard deviation of something ridiculous like ~500. For those of you not well versed in statistics, that more or less means they are all equal most of the time. Info here:

    http://fluiddruid.net/2011/06/4-2-an...condary-stats/

    I personally have switched to a build that caps hit/exp and then prefers haste. Perhaps this is 10 dps less on a Patchwerk than what I had before, but I think it's going to be much stronger on Beth'tilac and Alysrazor. We shall see how it goes on Monday...
    Any fight you swipe on (beth'tilac if you're on the ground) hit and exp become much more important, since you don't get an energy refund on a missed swipe, and mobs you're swiping will often be facing you.

    On Alysrazor haste is not as good as other stats as you will be running around a fair bit without attacking (and in the burnout phase you will have berserk up).

  9. #1769
    Mihir can you please at least update the primary stats weight-agi/wep dps.How much is 1 agi and 1 wep dps?

  10. #1770
    Anymore tricks for staghelm on where to be able to shred? Guild is yelling at me for not eating the damage but I was trying to find the shred spot, although like someone said earlier, to his far left seems like its working the best.
    Last edited by Avenn; 2011-07-18 at 01:21 AM. Reason: may have found shred spot

  11. #1771
    I found the claws as his stack point will allow you to shred and still take cleave dmg.
    Might take some adjusting but shudnt be much of an issue if you dont take that first cleave since there is so much time until the second one.

  12. #1772
    Quote Originally Posted by Avenn View Post
    Anymore tricks for staghelm on where to be able to shred? Guild is yelling at me for not eating the damage but I was trying to find the shred spot, although like someone said earlier, to his far left seems like its working the best.
    Get really friendly with his armpit. Basically, if you align yourself right behind his pincer without getting quite in front of it, and get deep into his hit box you can shred with no problem and help soak the damage. You may miss the first distributed damage getting into position, but that first strike is relatively tame so shouldn't present any issue. This seems to be a really good fight for feral dps - I actually beat out the rest of our group in both DPS and damage done.

    Finally got him down tonight and our other kitty wasn't able to make it, so my hopes were high for Fandral's, but alas - no luck... On the bright side, picked up the trinket and shoulders
    Bigslick (13/14H)
    "Those who deny respect for others deserve it not for themselves."

  13. #1773
    The Patient Smartie's Avatar
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    Anyone else having trouble with Mew since they added the import function? It isn't generating stat values for me

  14. #1774
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Generate relative stat values is now turned off by default. So you'll have to enable it yourself.

    ---------- Post added 2011-07-18 at 01:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Healingftw View Post
    Mihir can you please at least update the primary stats weight-agi/wep dps.How much is 1 agi and 1 wep dps?
    With my current gear (ilvl378), I get a 6.4 for weapon dps, 3.8 for agi and 1.3 for the secondary stats.

  15. #1775
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Mihir, I really appreciate the effort put into compiling this guide, it is incredibly insightful and helpful.

    But could you update the sections on Hit/Expertise and shed some light on why with 4.2 they have become such valuable stats for feral DPS? This still confuses me.

    Thanks, my feline friend!

  16. #1776
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Multiple reasons. The buffs to savage roar and shred, the loss of 2T11 reducing bleed damage, 2T12 increasing shred damage even further, all contribute to the value of hit and expertise.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2011-07-18 at 11:42 AM.

  17. #1777
    Fluffy Kitten Baiyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Multiple reasons. The buffs to savage roar and shred, the loss of 2T11 reducing bleed damage, 2T12 increasing shred damage even further, all contribute to the value of hit and expertise.
    Great, thanks dude!

  18. #1778
    The Patient Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Generate relative stat values is now turned off by default. So you'll have to enable it yourself.
    Ah! Thank you

  19. #1779
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Guide update - BiS lists for Firelands

    2.10.1 Gear list

    BiS:

    Head: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71488/x - H: Ragnaros
    Neck: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71610/c - H: Ragnaros
    Shoulder: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71490/o - H: Majordomo Staghelm
    Back: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71415/d - H: Lord Rhyolith
    Chest: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71486/o - H: Alysrazor
    Wrist: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71428/o of the Windflurry (256 agi, 170 haste, 170 crit) - H: Alysrazor
    Hands: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71487/o - H: Baleroc
    Waist: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71641/b - Trash + Firestone
    Legs: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71402/c - H: Beth'tilac
    Feet: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71467/s - H: Majordomo Staghelm
    Finger: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71216/v - Avengers of Hyjal
    Finger: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71401/w - H: Beth'tilac
    Trinket: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69150/m - H: Ragnaros
    Trinket: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69112/t - H: Majordomo Staghelm
    Weapon: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71466/f - H: Majordomo Staghelm
    Relic: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71567/c - Valor + Firestone

    Pre-Ragnaros HC:

    Head: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71416/x - H: Lord Rhyolith
    Neck: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71354/c - N: Ragnaros
    Legs: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71489/c - H: Shannox
    Trinket: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68994/m - N: Ragnaros

    Pre-Firelands HC

    Head: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71098/x - N: Ragnaros
    Neck: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71354/c - N: Ragnaros
    Shoulder: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71101/o - N: Majordomo Staghelm
    Back: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/70992/d - N: Lord Rhyolith
    Chest: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71100/o - VP
    Wrist: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/70735/o of the Windflurry (227 agi, 151 haste, 151 crit) - N: Alysrazor
    Hands: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71097/o - VP
    Waist: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/60231/b - Sinestra
    Legs: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71031/c - N: Beth'tilac
    Feet: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69951/s - LW
    Finger: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71216/v - Avengers of Hyjal
    Finger: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71032/w - N: Beth'tilac
    Trinket: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/68994/m - N: Ragnaros
    Trinket: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/59520/t - Bastion of Twilight Trash
    Weapon: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/69897/f - N: Majordomo Staghelm
    Relic: http://db.mmo-champion.com/i/71146/c - Valor

  20. #1780
    Is the general assumption regarding T12 to get Helm + Shoulders + Chest + Gloves, leaving Legs as the off-piece? If so, why?

    Based on the stats:
    T12 Gloves:
    --- +282 Agility
    --- +454 Stamina
    --- +177 Crit
    --- +205 Haste

    T12 Helm:
    --- +348 Agility
    --- +611 Stamina
    --- +265 Hit
    --- +213 Crit

    T12 Legs:
    --- +368 Agility
    --- +611 Stamina
    --- +166 Hit
    --- +310 Mastery

    T12 Chest:
    --- +368 Agility
    --- +611 Stamina
    --- +275 Crit
    --- +221 Expertise

    T12 Shoulders:
    --- +282 Agility
    --- +454 Stamina
    --- +157 Crit
    --- +216 Mastery

    Not counting socket bonuses, it seems like if the trend is to shy away from Mastery more and more, either the Legs or the Shoulders would be worth using something else. I'm guessing that the off-set legs have better itemization than the off-set shoulders?

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