The Cat Guide - 4.3

[Tygroen]

Well, I was using a reforging tool, but every time I went to use it, it would for w/e reason make haste the stat that was lower than everything else, which was getting irritating, so I finally decided to wing it. I tried a few more times in the tool and finally got good results (all likely my fault), but I tried several different things before realizing how easy adjusting things like gems/enchants are on those websites >.>

[Williee]

Ya those reforging tools r sometimes buggy/dont give correct values
I jus like reforgelite because it will refroge all my gear w/ 1 click hehe

[Deleted]

Posted my opinions in the Class Feedback thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...83?page=19#380
I'd like to encourage everyone to either make a post of your own, or to upvote mine if you agree with my points

[Fiana]

Posted my opinions in the Class Feedback thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...83?page=19#380
I'd like to encourage everyone to either make a post of your own, or to upvote mine if you agree with my points

Really nice one.

My list of current feral issues that I wrote yesterday in the same thread is pretty much the same. BHowever, I doubt that they will fix even 1-2 of them.

Also you should be carefull about writing such abilities as Prowl in list of abilities that potentially will be removed. I can't imaging life of feral druid without stealth Don't you use it to get first ravage on ragnaros?

They will definitely remove several abilities.
I guess they will remove claw from feral(or combine it with mangle), and soothe from balance(or combine it with hibernate).
Also we have good chance to lose thorns as one of our least used ability in all specs. Not a big deal actually.

[Ragekitty]

Mihir, I liked your post. I feel like mine was a bit verbose but hopefully they'll actually read them anyway. Also, they should've segregated the feedback threads by spec, IMO.


Also, I ***finally*** got the Flamescythe last night (378 version.. ugh) but it dropped nonetheless. It's so.. pretty! :')

[Deleted]

Really nice one.

My list of current feral issues that I wrote yesterday in the same thread is pretty much the same. BHowever, I doubt that they will fix even 1-2 of them.

Also you should be carefull about writing such abilities as Prowl in list of abilities that potentially will be removed. I can't imaging life of feral druid without stealth Don't you use it to get first ravage on ragnaros?

They will definitely remove several abilities.
I guess they will remove claw from feral(or combine it with mangle), and soothe from balance(or combine it with hibernate).
Also we have good chance to lose thorns as one of our least used ability in all specs. Not a big deal actually.

Ravage is not worth using without Stampede energy reduction.

[Machida]

Posted my opinions in the Class Feedback thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...83?page=19#380
I'd like to encourage everyone to either make a post of your own, or to upvote mine if you agree with my points

agree with everything you said .

What you think about my idea to remove the "RNG " from ferals

- Remove ooc procs from ferals melee and give us 20% more base energy regenaration .

[Fiana]

Ravage is not worth using without Stampede energy reduction.

It hits harder than shred. And its guaranteed crit granting you 2 combopoints and allowing to apply rip faster. Just for 60 energy instead of 40.
It definitely worth it.

mangle-shred-tf-rake = 4.5 cp in average.
Ravage-mangle-tf-rake = 5 cp in average
In means of energy - ravage hits 15k harder than average shred. Ravage is guaranteed crit for 45k, shred can hit for 20k or crit for 40k, in average its 30k. In means of energy 15k damage is exactly 20 energy.

In first case statistically you will have to use another shred to apply rip - in most cases wasting additional combopoint.
In second case in average you will be able to apply rip immediately. It works for me and I like it.

Well, the difference is so insignificant that there is no reason to even talk about it.

[Ragekitty]

Let's analyze this:

Shannox: Not possible to Ravage without Feral Charging first.
Beth'tilac: Not possible at all.
Lord Rhyolith: I guess possible, but easier/smarter to Feral Charge then Ravage!
Baleroc: Possible but easier/smarter to Feral Charge then Ravage!
Alysrazor: Not possible at all.
Majordomo Staghelm: Better off Feral Charging then Ravage!
Ragnaros: I guess this is literally the only boss in Firelands where you can Ravage on pull, but it seems like a waste.

[Tygroen]

Bah, Rogue legendary. Your post was too late, Mihir! WTF!

[MasterNewbie]

It hits harder than shred. And its guaranteed crit granting you 2 combopoints and allowing to apply rip faster. Just for 60 energy instead of 40.
It definitely worth it.

mangle-shred-tf-rake = 4.5 cp in average.
Ravage-mangle-tf-rake = 5 cp in average
In means of energy - ravage hits 15k harder than average shred. Ravage is guaranteed crit for 45k, shred can hit for 20k or crit for 40k, in average its 30k. In means of energy 15k damage is exactly 20 energy.

In first case statistically you will have to use another shred to apply rip - in most cases wasting additional combopoint.
In second case in average you will be able to apply rip immediately. It works for me and I like it.

Well, the difference is so insignificant that there is no reason to even talk about it.

The 60-energy ravage never has more DPE than shred (assuming a bleeding, mangled target). Even taking into consideration your assumption about the CP-generation, their adjusted DPE is roughly equal at current gear levels (if your non-SR'd melee damage on the character screen is around 1900, this is about the point where Ravage overtakes Shred). Now the thing is, CP generation is capped at 2, so as crit amounts get higher, this threshold value will get larger (since ravage's is now capped at 2 and shred's will approach 2). In general I would be willing to say that regardless of gear, shred would be a better option than a non-stampede Ravage.

Just a side note, the point at which shred will permanently be better than non-stampede ravage is at an effective crit rate of 50.36% (taking into account boss crit depression, this would be 55.16% character sheet crit chance, assuming boss crit depression still exists and is 4.8%).

[Deleted]

Posted my opinions in the Class Feedback thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...83?page=19#380
I'd like to encourage everyone to either make a post of your own, or to upvote mine if you agree with my points

Nice post Mihir. I too, complained about the removal of novelty items such as Orb of the Sindorei when shapeshifting. >< I doubt this is something they'd change though, they'll go for more 'important' changes.

I also asked that innervate/combat res/tranquility should be able to be used whilst in cat/bear form. I'm not holding my breath, though.

[Tygroen]

That's not even taking into account 2 pc tier 12 bonus and being able to start a fight instantly instead of moving in stealth'ed for a ravage (there would also be less pre-pot up time if you have to stealth afterwards too). Starting from stealth is pretty pointless now-a-days, might as well remove it from your bar.

[MasterNewbie]

That's not even taking into account 2 pc tier 12 bonus

I forgot to take this into account, and the crit threshold for shred being better is now at 12.67% character-sheet crit (7.96% effective crit). If you don't have at least that amount of crit chance with 2T12 you are doing something horribly wrong (not wearing pieces in some of your slots counts as doing something horribly wrong).

[Meleti]

At the risk of verging on offtopic - does anyone here play a feral in a 10 man hardcore guild? I'm bored out of my mind at the moment and thinking of playing WoW again. Would I be able to reasonably play feral DPS in a 10 man setting, or would I have to run another main spec?

(by hardcore, I'm looking for progression-based raiding; 6/7, 7/7, whatever's current)

[Nayto]

Cat fits fairly well into 10 man raiding, even if only due to the ability to also perform other roles. Being able to run a smallest possible roster is vital to maintaining an edge in HM progression, and I would consider having someone that can also tank/heal when required an asset but that’s pretty much an aspect of every druid.

From a view of maximizing potential I’d suggest from what I’ve seen that Balance is currently the stronger DPS spec, and provide greater raid utility. Ranged in general is stronger on current content and if played to a very high level balance is one of the best dps classes for firelands. Some fights are also Very melee unfriendly.

All that being said, I’ve played MS feral DPS with Tank OS in a high end 10 man guild and know a few others who do the same quiet successfully, but you will probably have a much easier time finding a raiding slot in a 6/7 (im assuming you mean hard mode) guild as something other than feral - Balance/Resto/Bears are in very high demand in these guilds.

[Fiana]

The 60-energy ravage never has more DPE than shred

Can I look at your calculations? Because it looks different from statistical data.

---------- Post added 2011-09-14 at 03:46 AM ----------

That's not even taking into account 2 pc tier 12 bonus and being able to start a fight instantly instead of moving in stealth'ed for a ravage (there would also be less pre-pot up time if you have to stealth afterwards too).

2pc tir 12 bonus ticks for 2k every 2.5 seconds in average. Using ravage first is delaying mangle for 1 second(gcd). So its less than 1k damage from 2pt12.
In the same time using ravage first allows you to apply rip faster. Now compare rip tick damage and 2pt12 tick damage.

Moving stealthed? Why would you want to move stealthed? Thats really stupid idea to move stealthed. You should never do it
If you still don't understand - there are just 2 bosses in cata where you have to use such mechanics - al'akir and ragnaros. Mostly because its impossible to charge and because they have no aggro radius.
Prepot is working just fine. You use pot at 0 seconds of your tank pull countdown, you use stealth in the same time(it can be macroed but there is no reason for it really), you use ravage when you see your tank's name in boss target. There is absolutely no difference in how you pull. You would use your prepot and your first attack exactly at the same time with or without stealth.

[Tharkkun]

Posted my opinions in the Class Feedback thread: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...83?page=19#380
I'd like to encourage everyone to either make a post of your own, or to upvote mine if you agree with my points

Too bad I'm in the US. That post was very professional and to the point. Please bump it in europe!

[MasterNewbie]

Can I look at your calculations? Because it looks different from statistical data.

Ravage is 950% + 56, Shred is 540% + 56. DPE of Ravage is only higher than Shred if:

(9.5x+56)/60 > (1.2)(1.3)(5.4x+56)/40 %The 1.2 and 1.3 are from Rend and Tear and Mangle debuff respectively, x is your character sheet weapon damage
That inequality is equivalent to this one:
380x + 2240 > 505.44x + 5241.6, leads to
-125.44x > 3000.4, which suggests x must be negative for it to happen. Well, weapon damage is never negative, so DPE of ravage is never higher than DPE of shred.

The calculations that took into account the 1.5 CPs for shred and 2 CPs for ravage involve the same inequality, except
2(380x + 2240) > 1.5(505.44x + 5241.6)

Solving that, we can see the adjusted ravage is better when weapon damage is >1820.

To determine the crit chance where shred is always better, instead of multiplying the left-hand side (LHS) by 2 and the right-hand side (RHS) by 1.5, I used (2) on the LHS and (1+k) on the RHS, k is your crit chance (I used 2 for the ravage side because I was assuming that we would have hit the effective crit cap for it). Doing similar algebra, let x->infinity, k converges to 0.5036.

Note that none of this involves 2T12. Including that will introduce a 1.1 factor on the RHS and change about everything. If you want to see those calculations (I didn't really mess with 2T12 much, but I can do some if you want to see them) you will need to wait till tomorrow.

[Zheryn]

2pc tir 12 bonus ticks for 2k every 2.5 seconds in average. Using ravage first is delaying mangle for 1 second(gcd). So its less than 1k damage from 2pt12.

I don't think you understand how the set bonus works. It literally increases the damage of mangle and shred by 10%, so it doesn't matter how often it ticks.