Page 3 of 210 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
13
53
103
... LastLast
  1. #41
    any chance of posting BIS gear for i264/i277 levels?

  2. #42
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,797
    Yep, good idea. I'll try to get something up for that tonight.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Squishy2 View Post
    any chance of posting BIS gear for i264/i277 levels?
    based on Mihir's Guide i use this filter on wowhead for Gear weight

    HTML Code:
    wowhead.com/items?filter=ub=11;gm=4;rf=1;wt=134:21:170:20:96:117:119:103;wtv=5.59:4.7:3.73:2.96:2.56:2.08:2.08:1.96;gb=1

  4. #44
    Thanks for the guide mate,it is really awesome.
    but i want to ask you a question about the Haste Rating,if it helps with the energy regenerates,why it is an okay stat but not as good as crit rating?so you are saying critical is more important than haste.
    but more energy let you do your abilities,such as Shred,so more combo points and more dps,so what do you think?

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    3,337
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarrabee View Post
    based on Mihir's Guide i use this filter on wowhead for Gear weight

    HTML Code:
    wowhead.com/items?filter=ub=11;gm=4;rf=1;wt=134:21:170:20:96:117:119:103;wtv=5.59:4.7:3.73:2.96:2.56:2.08:2.08:1.96;gb=1
    thanks for the link it turns out the bloodfall HC is better then Distand Land HC lol.

    and ofcourse that you Mihir.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  6. #46
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,797
    Quote Originally Posted by Ashex View Post
    Thanks for the guide mate,it is really awesome.
    but i want to ask you a question about the Haste Rating,if it helps with the energy regenerates,why it is an okay stat but not as good as crit rating?so you are saying critical is more important than haste.
    but more energy let you do your abilities,such as Shred,so more combo points and more dps,so what do you think?
    Problem with that is, that you can't go beyond 100% bleed uptime. So any extra energy you get will be used on shreds/FB, which are only a relatively small part of our damage. While the crit rating improves all of our damage, as well as giving more combo points which in turn gives us more FBs.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 12:00 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarrabee View Post
    based on Mihir's Guide i use this filter on wowhead for Gear weight

    HTML Code:
    wowhead.com/items?filter=ub=11;gm=4;rf=1;wt=134:21:170:20:96:117:119:103;wtv=5.59:4.7:3.73:2.96:2.56:2.08:2.08:1.96;gb=1
    Careful with that; there's a bug in Wowhead where it will favor items with more sockets heavily atm, cause it uses green cataclysm gems with 40 stats (which aren't available yet).

  7. #47
    I'm not sure if i missed it anywhere along the way after reading your guide and everyone's comments. But did you say you still put expertise and hit rating below other stats as it was prior to 4.0.1? The Primal Precision talent is no longer in the game. Meaning we no longer gain 80% of our energy spent on abilities that fail to land on our targets...meaning we need hit more now than ever. That's not including the 10 expertise we are losing from this talent.

    Can you please clarify with this talent being removed why hit/expertise is not important in 4.0.1? Thanks!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Terrets View Post
    I'm not sure if i missed it anywhere along the way after reading your guide and everyone's comments. But did you say you still put expertise and hit rating below other stats as it was prior to 4.0.1? The Primal Precision talent is no longer in the game. Meaning we no longer gain 80% of our energy spent on abilities that fail to land on our targets...meaning we need hit more now than ever. That's not including the 10 expertise we are losing from this talent.

    Can you please clarify with this talent being removed why hit/expertise is not important in 4.0.1? Thanks!
    i guess that it's just a passive "talent" now such as our bleedings being able to crit by default.

  9. #49
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,797
    Correct, all energy costing abilities get a 80% energy refund on failed attack with 4.0, including finishers.

  10. #50
    So about FB.. Without glyph im supposed to do FBs only at 70 energy for maximal dps?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    Mobs can dodge from behind as well.

    About the crit cap: it's fine to go over it, however the value of crit rating will go down (since white attacks and ferocious bite don't benefit from it anymore), while the value of hit and expertise will go up (since every point of hit you gain will be a guaranteed crit). Since crit isnt that far ahead of hit/expertise in the first place, they switch places on the relative stat value list soon enough.

    Ideally you'd want to put your crit and hit (and haste) at such a level that they are equal of value, while maximizing your agility and mastery rating.

    For example, in my own gear, which is right at the crit cap, hit and exp are valued at 2.2, crit at 2.1 and haste at 2.0.
    Ok, I concede point about expertise and dodge. I can see there is value in it.

    On the topic of crit: Is FB not counted as special attack, and therefore is not effected by the the crit cap? Even if it was, we are talking about increasing normal attacks damage (and FB?) with hit/exp/haste, while crit would increase damage of Rip (DoT), Rake (Application and DoT), Shred - our 3 highest damage abilities.

    So I would go for crit over hit/exp/haste even at 76 %cap. Opinion?

  12. #52
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,797
    Added a section about crit/hit/exp caps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Punasilmä View Post
    So about FB.. Without glyph im supposed to do FBs only at 70 energy for maximal dps?
    If it doesn't have a negative influence on your rip/rake uptimes then yes, by all means (and also don't pull aggro with it, as I discovered yesterday after some nice berserked 46k FB crits on LK )

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 02:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapadlo View Post
    Ok, I concede point about expertise and dodge. I can see there is value in it.

    On the topic of crit: Is FB not counted as special attack, and therefore is not effected by the the crit cap? Even if it was, we are talking about increasing normal attacks damage (and FB?) with hit/exp/haste, while crit would increase damage of Rip (DoT), Rake (Application and DoT), Shred - our 3 highest damage abilities.

    So I would go for crit over hit/exp/haste even at 76 %cap. Opinion?
    It's very possible that if you don't have good pieces of gear available with hit/exp on them, it would be beneficial to go past the crit cap, rather than switch to an inferior piece of gear and lose agi/mastery.

    You very likely never want to be gemming for hit/exp in any case; since expertise is red you'd have to sacrifice agility, and since a nightmare tear is blue you'd have to sacrifice strength. Tho a 2nd blue socket with an agi+hit gem might be viable if the socket bonus is good enough. At 85 it will look different since there's not gonna be a cata version of nightmare tear as it looks now, making agi+hit the only option for blue sockets.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2010-10-19 at 12:55 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Telaso View Post
    I'm going to miss being a kitty

    But alas, Pask has the right idea and get a hardcore 10m guild to blow through content as a tank

    Also pask, if you guys find another guild on the beta lemme know!
    Yeah I wish I could find a non-retarded beta guild, instead I get ones who can't find the entrance to a instance when they're right next to it

  14. #54
    "Correct, all energy costing abilities get a 80% energy refund on failed attack with 4.0, including finishers."

    Can anyone confirm if this is also the case for Rogues also? I think it might be useful to place this in the original guide, as most people (like me) are assuming that we lost the ability to gain 80% energy back when we lost the talent that gave it to us: making the comments under the expertise/hit parts not make much sense.

  15. #55
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    2,797
    Quote Originally Posted by Purrfunctory View Post
    My equipment comparison calculator (I had to automate all this, especially PROCs, because it takes too long to compare a large number of options) has very different results using the same relative value weighting formula for trinkets.

    I use an "immediately PROCs when off cooldown" methodology which although not precise is fair since all trinkets are treated thusly.

    Passive Proc Total
    Sharpened Twilight Scale Heroic 557.15 1383.68 1940.83
    Death’s Verdict/Death’s Choice Heroic 812.16 799 1611
    Deathbringer’s Will Heroic 505.68 641.33 1147

    Sharpened Twilight Scale Heroic - 184 Critical Strike Rating which reforges to 110.4 Critical Strike and 73.6 Mastery - 15 second PROC and 45 second cooldown - 33.33% uptime for 1472 Attack Power

    Death’s Verdict/Death’s Choice Heroic - 288 Attack Power - 15 second PROC and 45 second cooldown - 33.33% uptime for 510 Agility

    Deathbringer's Will Heroic - 167 Critical Strike Rating which reforges to 100.2 Critical Strike and 66.8 Mastery - 30 second PROC and 105 second cooldown - 28.57% uptime with equal treatment for all three possible PROCs since the PROC is random - 700 Agility / 700 Strength / 700 Haste - 33.33% chance for any of the auras to PROC
    Interesting. Can your equipment comparison calculator be found anywhere? Reforging always gets rounded down btw, if 40% of the reforged stat is 66.8, then you can only reforge 66.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 04:11 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommytank View Post
    "Correct, all energy costing abilities get a 80% energy refund on failed attack with 4.0, including finishers."

    Can anyone confirm if this is also the case for Rogues also? I think it might be useful to place this in the original guide, as most people (like me) are assuming that we lost the ability to gain 80% energy back when we lost the talent that gave it to us: making the comments under the expertise/hit parts not make much sense.
    Sure thing, I'll add it.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 04:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tommytank View Post
    "Correct, all energy costing abilities get a 80% energy refund on failed attack with 4.0, including finishers."

    Can anyone confirm if this is also the case for Rogues also? I think it might be useful to place this in the original guide, as most people (like me) are assuming that we lost the ability to gain 80% energy back when we lost the talent that gave it to us: making the comments under the expertise/hit parts not make much sense.
    I can't confirm it, but it would make a lot of sense.

  16. #56
    Interesting. Can your equipment comparison calculator be found anywhere? Reforging always gets rounded down btw, if 40% of the reforged stat is 66.8, then you can only reforge 66.
    I wasn't planning on releasing it since it is my first attempt at simple DPS calculator. I am doing relative weighting first since it allows me to compare equipment easily and much more rapidly which is my greatest need at the moment. It is just a multi-sheet spreadsheet program. Manual calculations got out of control very quickly for me since any early errors are propagated throughout.

    Wasn't aware of that but that makes sense and is easy enough to fix.

    I have a Microsoft Excel version that I can send to you with the logic exposed. The DPS calculations are hidden since it it's a work in progress and I don't have all the formulas entered yet. I am using the same stat weightings you reported in the Feral DPS Guide but I took the Tier 11 relative stat weightings out for the time being although you will see placeholders.

    I don't think it is worth releasing since I would prefer Feral DPS to have a single authoritative calculator ala "Mew." Yawning wants to provide the equipment comparison that Toskk's Feral DPS calculator has and will likely do so, perhaps within the next two months before the Cataclysm. DPS calculators are incredibly challenging to make especially since so many variables are not well known or documented.

    Just send me a PM with your email and I will send to you.
    Last edited by Purrfunctory; 2010-10-19 at 04:55 PM.

  17. #57
    The Patient Smartie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Devon, UK
    Posts
    223
    The post still doesnt say what kinda hit to aim for, is it like 7%, 6%, 5%....

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Smartie View Post
    The post still doesnt say what kinda hit to aim for, is it like 7%, 6%, 5%....
    No goal for expertise or hit are given because those two stats are relatively unimportant until you approach the critical strike soft cap at which point you should balance critical strike against expertise and hit to avoid critical strike suppression. Please note that this approach doesn't entirely ignore expertise and hit since you are likely to have some level of both stats on gear. This approach values the expertise and hit (in that expertise and hit are important for ~50% of damage) on your equipment without specifically equipping for expertise and hit.
    Last edited by Purrfunctory; 2010-10-19 at 03:26 PM.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Paskgotsheal View Post
    Yeah I wish I could find a non-retarded beta guild, instead I get ones who can't find the entrance to a instance when they're right next to it
    And you go and bail on us last night!!!

  20. #60
    So to summarise it looks to me like the way to go is:
    Gem all Agi, unless there is a nice bonus for yellow, in which case Agi+Mastery.
    Reforge all haste to Mastery.
    If there is no haste to reforge, reforge hit/exp/crit in that order.
    Ench Agi/Mastery.

    I hope things change for cata, otherwise gearing looks a bit linear.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •