The Cat Guide - 4.3

[Lyndonm33]

Alot of people debate that if your gear level is high enough, you should start gemming for hit/exp.
i feel that with dbw (264) procs and or DC (245) proc's im at about 70% crit. Too much? Should i gem for agi/haste and agi/hit in red?

[Deleted]

A good rule that's always been true sofar: Never gem for procs unless the procs hard-cap you. And the crit-hardcap is 104.8%. About 80% of your damage isn't affected by the crit softcap.

[Khraeme]

I got a question about haste/crit "capping". I currently have 58.60% crit and 20% haste and use the Scorpion trinket. Should I be gemming/forging for crit, to reach soft cap of 66 (i think), or gem haste, for faster energy regen? I also have lifeblood, so i get 240 haste every 2 mins.

[Purrfunctory]

I got a question about haste/crit "capping". I currently have 58.60% crit and 20% haste and use the Scorpion trinket. Should I be gemming/forging for crit, to reach soft cap of 66 (i think), or gem haste, for faster energy regen? I also have lifeblood, so i get 240 haste every 2 mins.

The stat priority is agility>mastery>critical strike (to soft cap)>critical strike (to hard cap)≈haste≈expertise≈hit

Agility directs increases all attacks; therefore, gem agility whenever possible but maintain your metagem bonus
As you can't reforge to agility you should reforge to mastery whenever possible (either your least valuable stat or the highest stat on a given piece of equipment)

Nightmare Tear +10 all stats (unique-equipped) is excellent for a blue socket
agility/critical strike works well for yellow sockets (+6 agility bonus) otherwise Agility
agility/hit works well for blue sockets (+6 socket bonus) otherwise Agility

Critical strike soft cap is 76% assuming you are expertise and hit capped; however, you simply need enough expertise and hit to ensure you are suppressing critical strikes.

[Khraeme]

Well i no agi > all. In the OP about stats and what not, it was stated that hit cap/exp cap shouldnt be taken to seriously. My current hit/exp is 3.5% hit, 17 expertise. I havent raided ICC as it yet, but heroics its fine. My crit is 57.35% in cat (no Mark, 58.6 with). Im asking though, should I reforge my haste into masterty, or crit into mastery. Also gems (orange) would be 10 agi/cti or agi/haste.

Is the soft cap (76%) while in cat, fully raid buffed?

[bavarcarus]

when figuring out the crit cap you need to consider hit and expertise. Basically, you will glacing blow the number stated in the OP, and you will miss and be dodged based on your stats.

The OP lists the crit cap with no hit or expertise: 66.3%

If you're at this crit rate, while attacking a lvl 83 you will have 0% hit, 61.5% crit, 8% miss, 6.5% dodge, 24% glancing blow.
If you gain 1% expertise, it would look like this: 1% hit, 61.5% crit, 8% miss, 5.5% dodge, 24% glancing blow.

[Will]

I wonder if it's safe to assume at level 85 with crit across the board being much lower, and with mastery much higher than we're seeing it atm (from our reforges), that we'll most likely ignore the crit soft cap completely? Methinks that even in the ultimate gear of the expansion, crit will still be under 70%?

Another thing I'm hoping the simulators answer is if we should reforge all haste to mastery even if it's the lower stat.

I also wonder if it will be feasible to reforge hit or expertise if an item has no other undesirable stats (or haste) on it.

I'm not really asking these as questions - treat them as rhetorical, for i'm merely musing.

[bavarcarus]

They aren't happy with people reaching the crit cap at all, I'd bet at the end of cata our crit will be around 60% (assuming they do what they seem to want to do).

[Khraeme]

when figuring out the crit cap you need to consider hit and expertise. Basically, you will glacing blow the number stated in the OP, and you will miss and be dodged based on your stats.

The OP lists the crit cap with no hit or expertise: 66.3%

If you're at this crit rate, while attacking a lvl 83 you will have 0% hit, 61.5% crit, 8% miss, 6.5% dodge, 24% glancing blow.
If you gain 1% expertise, it would look like this: 1% hit, 61.5% crit, 8% miss, 5.5% dodge, 24% glancing blow.

So getting 8% hit and 23 expertise is more important then?

[bavarcarus]

No. Since ArP disappeared melee has become a much smaller percentage of our damage, that's alot of what has put haste so far down the stat list (for lvl 80 anyways). Missing and being dodged with our specials causes 80% of the energy to be refunded, so that isn't a large consideration. Obviously miss and dodge have little effect on our bleeds, which are currently the majority of our damage. These are the reasons to mostly ignore hit and expertise.

Typically you get 2 secondary stats on gear, the ideal would be to get gear with the most agility paired with crit plus hit/expertise, then reforge whichever is the larger number to mastery. After hitting hit/expertise caps you would look for gear with crit/haste. At least that's what I've derived from reading here, I'm primarily a bear.

edit: love it when I make a post and need to fix some mistakes, then the site goes down...

[Will]

No. Since ArP disappeared melee has become a much smaller percentage of our damage, that's alot of what has put haste so far down the stat list (for lvl 80 anyways). Missing and being dodged with our specials causes 80% of the energy to be refunded, so that isn't a large consideration. Obviously miss and dodge have little effect on our bleeds, which are currently the majority of our damage. These are the reasons to mostly ignore hit and expertise.

Typically you get 2 secondary stats on gear, the ideal would be to get gear with the most agility paired with crit plus hit/expertise, then reforge whichever is the larger number to mastery. After hitting hit/expertise caps you would look for gear with crit/haste. At least that's what I've derived from reading here, I'm primarily a bear.

edit: love it when I make a post and need to fix some mistakes, then the site goes down...

why must it be the larger stat we reforge? Sometimes, reforging the smaller undesirable stat could be worthwhile! (seen as 'pruning' it - surely that's not a bad thing?)

Perhaps we should wait until the gear calculators are final-tuned.

[Purrfunctory]

Mew is as tuned as it will get for the most part; however, the game mechanics themselves may change (although not in a dramatic fashion) which could change results somewhat.

Mihir states in the guide that, "Hit, haste and expertise are the best stats to reduce; try to reduce the stat that's biggest to get the most mastery out of it." This is a general guideline and if you feel that your "rotation" is not functional then you should consider changes that would help smooth your "rotation" such as more expertise, haste or hit. Follow the guide to the point to which you are comfortable then push yourself a little bit further to try to adjust to low expertise, haste or hit. If you can't fully adjust to low(er) expertise, haste and hit then change just enough to feel comfortable.

A lot of us appear to promote certain rules for topping dps meters but we also realize that simply enjoying the game is the most important rule. If you feel uncomfortable with an occasional miss then you should do what feels right for you. We are simply promoting rules that can help every feral perform better.

[Lyndonm33]

hey guys, I just need 1 more confirmation, before I go and blow another 500g on gems. So I take it, DONT gem for hit/exp? And also, i think im crit capping(Ed), but a bit spectacle about what to do. Just need a bit of feral knowledge with my gear choice's and gemming. At about 67.29% crit in cat, unbuffed, not meeting hit/exp caps.
armoury name : Exploit, Frostmoune

[axxey]

why must it be the larger stat we reforge? Sometimes, reforging the smaller undesirable stat could be worthwhile! (seen as 'pruning' it - surely that's not a bad thing?)

Perhaps we should wait until the gear calculators are final-tuned.

Currently the largest stat we reforge because at 70 we don't have access to any mastery outside of reforging. Largest stat returns largest mastery.

---------- Post added 2010-11-01 at 11:01 AM ----------

I still gem agi/hit in my blue sockets, but more from personal preferance reducing some irritation moments when refreshing rip doesn't go through than pure optimising.

[scorch109]

even now depending your crit level you don't reforge the largest stat, if you aren't over your crit cap you reforge stuff that isn't crit.

[Purrfunctory]

hey guys, I just need 1 more confirmation, before I go and blow another 500g on gems. So I take it, DONT gem for hit/exp? And also, i think im crit capping(Ed), but a bit spectacle about what to do. Just need a bit of feral knowledge with my gear choice's and gemming. At about 67.29% crit in cat, unbuffed, not meeting hit/exp caps.
armoury name : Exploit, Frostmoune

I looked at your character but you were in PvP gear at the time. I suggest that you check to see if you are getting any critical strike suppression, if you are then think about adding expertise and hit gems. Agility is still a great choice either way.

[Deleted]

Started on the bis gear section, more to come tomorrow

[Lyndonm33]

hey sorry, logged out in PVE gear this time, hopefully would be able to solve me problem.
<3 thanks

[sparks]

going to try this.
Has there been any test on using the spec for bear tanking in cata reg 5 mans ?

one other thing
Level 85 (pre-heroics) gear level is 352 are these the regular 5 man dungeon drops?

[Khraeme]

going to try this.
Has there been any test on using the spec for bear tanking in cata reg 5 mans ?

one other thing
Level 85 (pre-heroics) gear level is 352 are these the regular 5 man dungeon drops?

you didnt link anything