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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by sparks View Post
    going to try this.
    Has there been any test on using the spec for bear tanking in cata reg 5 mans ?

    one other thing
    Level 85 (pre-heroics) gear level is 352 are these the regular 5 man dungeon drops?
    You didn't post a spec, and this is a cat thread.

  2. #202
    would u still be able to count into crit cap when you have procs? such as Death's Choice. Like that totally throw's u way over crit cap.

  3. #203
    Most people reference the soft cap for critical strike which is 76% if you are expertise and hit capped; however, the absolute or hard cap for critical strike is 104.8% (versus a level 83 target) which most people won't reach even with programmed random occurrences. Reaching the critical strike soft cap simply means that the relative value of critical strike is reduced slightly to approximately the value of expertise, haste and hit. Considering that the majority of Feral damage is not effected by critical strike suppression it is acceptable to stack critical strike even beyond the critical strike soft cap although possibly not optimal. For example, stacking critical strike to 89% with only 1% expertise and 0% hit is possibly (perhaps even probably) a theoretical loss in damage per second or certainly not a statistically significant gain in damage per second.

    In summary, the critical strike hard cap is 104.8% which is difficult (if not impossible) to reach without stacking critical strike rating with "best in slot" heroic level gear in most cases. If you are beyond 104.8% you should definitely consider reforging critical strike to mastery.
    Last edited by Purrfunctory; 2010-11-04 at 02:52 PM.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Purrfunctory View Post
    Most people reference the soft cap for critical strike which is 76% if you are expertise and hit capped; however, the absolute or hard cap for critical strike is 104.8% (versus a level 83 target) which most people won't reach even with programmed random occurrences. Reaching the critical strike soft cap simply means that the relative value of critical strike is reduced slightly to approximately the value of expertise, haste and hit. Considering that the majority of Feral damage is not effected by critical strike suppression it is acceptable to stack critical strike even beyond the critical strike soft cap although possibly not optimal. For example, stacking critical strike to 89% with only 1% expertise and 0% hit is possibly (perhaps even probably) a theoretical loss in damage per second or certainly not a statistically significant gain in damage per second.

    In summary, the critical strike hard cap is 104.8% which is difficult (if not impossible) to reach without stacking critical strike rating with "best in slot" heroic level gear in most cases. If you are beyond 104.8% you should definitely consider reforging critical strike to mastery.
    Well, if the critical strike on your gear is considerably higher than whatever the other stat is, then reforing that would be better. Say a piece of gear has 100 Critical strike and 60 haste, it'd be better to have 40 mastery 60 crit 60 haste than 24 mastery 100 crit 36 haste.

  5. #205
    hey alot to get your head round on ths thread

    since cata is only a few weeks away, will we be wanting to hit the expetise and hit cap at 85 or is that not decided yet ?

    also coul anyone help me with wether i need to be hit and expertise capped atm, char info is on sig

    thank you in advanced


    Beacuse kitty's go Meaw

  6. #206
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Read the guide.

  7. #207
    I am not sure of your frame of reference since you quote me but appear to be developing an argument which has little relation to my posting although I agree with your post in most instances especially pre-Cataclysm. Perhaps my post was not sufficiently concise or precise.

    To clarify, you should consider programmed (or programmable) random occurrences when considering the critical strike hard cap of 104.8%. I wouldn't; however, be concerned about the critical strike soft cap of 76% even when considering programmed random occurrences. On the other hand, as Bavarcarus alludes, many Ferals are reforging critical strike rating to mastery rating since many best in slot pieces have exceptional levels of critical strike rating and mastery is generally a better attribute than critical strike.
    Last edited by Purrfunctory; 2010-11-04 at 05:49 PM.

  8. #208
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Just noticed that relentless and chaotic meta gems have been changed on the beta to require more blue than red gems. So I guess those are out of the picture now. The mastery+runspeed one might be a good option now if you got some good yellow sockets (requires 2xyellow), or the crit rating+reduced stun/root duration one which requires 1 yellow and 1 blue.

  9. #209
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    •(Mangle) Mangle base damage increased by 55%, from 667 to 1044.

    i gues this is mangle cat as it does 667 base damage. i do wonder how much more blizzard is gonig to buff mangle lol and whnewe can finely stop using shred :P
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  10. #210
    i do wonder how much more blizzard is going to buff mangle and when can we finally stop using shred
    I've already been considering a rotation where Shred is only used 3x per Rip and otherwise it's Mangle Spam. To do this, would probably require Mangle, Shred, and Rip glyphs, dropping Roar glyph for the Mangle glyph.

  11. #211
    i always thought roar was a use less glyph namely because it only increased Auto-atkk.

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Purrfunctory View Post
    I am not sure of your frame of reference since you quote me but appear to be developing an argument which has little relation to my posting although I agree with your post in most instances especially pre-Cataclysm. Perhaps my post was not sufficiently concise or precise.

    To clarify, you should consider programmed (or programmable) random occurrences when considering the critical strike hard cap of 104.8%. I wouldn't; however, be concerned about the critical strike soft cap of 76% even when considering programmed random occurrences. On the other hand, as Bavarcarus alludes, many Ferals are reforging critical strike rating to mastery rating since many best in slot pieces have exceptional levels of critical strike rating and mastery is generally a better attribute than critical strike.
    Hmm...thought I saw someone say you shouldn't reforge crit to mastery, and I thought I quoted that. I must be losing it.

  13. #213
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndonm33 View Post
    i always thought roar was a use less glyph namely because it only increased Auto-atkk.
    And you don't auto attack?

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by bavarcarus View Post
    Hmm...thought I saw someone say you shouldn't reforge crit to mastery, and I thought I quoted that. I must be losing it.
    I can see where my post is confusing. I merely clarified the critical strike cap since I was fairly certain he wasn't at the critical strike hard cap then I stated that you should definitely reforge critical strike to mastery at the critical strike hard cap. In fact, it is probably beneficial to reforge critical strike to mastery prior to reaching the critical strike hard cap. I fully support reforging whatever stat into mastery that provides the greatest damage per second gain which is often critical strike.
    Last edited by Purrfunctory; 2010-11-05 at 05:18 PM.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    And you don't auto attack?
    But You wouldnt use it above other glyphs, thus it being useless

  16. #216
    But You wouldnt use it above other glyphs, thus it being useless
    I'm not sure what you're getting at, but right now you do use it above other glyphs because it's less useless than other glyphs.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by axxey View Post
    Largest stat returns largest mastery.

    what stats should I reforge ?
    i make a quick sample html file for reforge , based on the mihir's stats weight (BiS, no crit cap)
    save the content below in a html file , open and put the your item stats in
    (only correct if you below the crit,hit and exp cap)

    gl
    Code:
     <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
    <html>
    <head>
      <script type="text/javascript">
    function displaymessage(valueForm)
    {
    var s= new Array ();
    for (i=0; i <4; i++){
    s[i]=new Array();
    }
    merke_v=0;
    mastery = new Array(5.59,0,0,0,0);
    agi=new Array(4.7,0,0,0);
    crit = new Array(2.56,0,0,0);
    expertise= new Array(2.08,0,0,0);
    hast=new Array(1.96,0,0,0);
    hit=new Array(2.08,0,0,0);
    crit[1]=valueForm.crit.value;
    hast[1]= valueForm.haste.value;
    expertise[1]= valueForm.expertise.value;
    hit[1]=valueForm.hit.value;
    crit[2] =crit[1]*0.6 *crit[0];
    expertise[2] =expertise[1]*0.6*expertise[0];
    hast[2] =hast[1]*0.6*hast[0];
    hit[2] =hit[1]*0.6*hit[0];
    crit[3] =crit[1] *crit[0];
    expertise[3] =expertise[1]*expertise[0];
    hast[3] =hast[1]*hast[0];
    hit[3] =hit[1]*hit[0];
    mastery[1]= 0.4* crit[1]* mastery[0];
    mastery[2]= 0.4* expertise[1]* mastery[0];
    mastery[3]= 0.4* hast[1]* mastery[0];
    mastery[4]= 0.4* hit[1]* mastery[0];
    crit_mastery= crit[2]+ expertise[3]+hast[3]+hit[3] + mastery[1] ;
    expertise_mastery= crit[3]+ expertise[2]+hast[3]+hit[3] + mastery[2];
    hast_mastery= crit[3]+ expertise[3]+hast[2]+hit[3] + mastery[3];
    hit_mastery= crit[3]+ expertise[3]+hast[3]+hit[2] + mastery[4];
    s[0][0]="crit";
    s[0][1]=crit_mastery;
    s[1][0]="expertise";
    s[1][1]=expertise_mastery;
    s[2][0]="haste";
    s[2][1]=hast_mastery;
    s[3][0]="hit";
    s[3][1]=hit_mastery;
    for (i=0; i <3; i++)
    if (s[i][1] > merke_v){
    merke_v= s[i][1];
    merke_n= s[i][0];
    }
    valueForm.Result.value=merke_n+ ":" + merke_v;
    }
      </script>
      <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
     http-equiv="content-type">
      <title>reforge</title>
    </head>
    <body>
    <br>
    <form>
      <table style="width: 376px; height: 59px;" border="1"
     cellpadding="3">
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td><nobr>crit: </nobr></td>
            <td><input name="crit" size="4" value="0">
            </td>
            <td =""></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td><nobr>haste: </nobr>
            </td>
            <td><input name="haste" size="4"
     value="0">
            </td>
            <td></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td><nobr>hit: </nobr>
            </td>
            <td><input name="hit" size="4" value="0">
            </td>
            <td></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td><nobr>exp: </nobr>
            </td>
            <td><input name="expertise" size="4"
     value="0">
            </td>
            <td></td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td><input name="reset_form" value="Reset Form"
     onclick="this.form.reset();" type="button"></td>
            <td><input onclick="displaymessage(this.form);"
     value="calculate" type="button">
            </td>
            <td align="right" bgcolor="#aaccff">
            <nobr>result: <input name="Result" size="9"></nobr><br>
            </td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
    </form>
    </body>
    </html>
    yarrabee at Nozdormu eu

  18. #218
    I began playing WoW again today, after having had a hiatus since the end of June. Everything has changed so extremely much since then, so I have been reading on this and experimented in-game in conjunction with it the entire day. I couldn't ask for a more comprehensive or better guide, so thank you a bunch, Mihir.

    I reforged every single gear piece containing haste, hit or exptertise rating to mastery rating (which was pretty much all of them), and ended up with 408 mastery rating and a 52% bleed damage increase.

    The changes to Cat DPS in this major patch seem to be hugely pleasant. I remember doing about 6.1k DPS unbuffed on a training dummy pre-4.0 (or in June to be more precise), or something around there. When I tried it now, post-4.0, with the same gear, I landed on somewhat above 9.3k DPS, more than a 3k DPS increase! I have only tried once, and I know I can push it even further as I did a couple of mistakes here and there. I just have to ask since I find it almost absurd: has anyone else had a major DPS increase? How much?

    As far as the combat mechanics are concerned, I find it a lot easier to maintain the priority list now than I did before, and there are much more room for FBing.

    Hoo, this is awesome. Can't wait to try this out in raids.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Torzak View Post
    I'm not sure what you're getting at, but right now you do use it above other glyphs because it's less useless than other glyphs.
    You shouldn't be using Glyph of SR at all, as it's a dps loss thanks to the buffs we received back in mid Oct. At 85 perhaps, but currently the best three are Rip, Shred and Berserk.
    Last edited by superfula; 2010-11-08 at 05:13 AM.

  20. #220
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    i dont think bezerk is good as you its only like 6 seconds every 3 mninutes (yeh this is out of my head, i didnt look up the exact numbers)

    that while you are at < 20 enegery is noy much of an increase while the SR glyph is a nice passive boost
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

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