1. #12461
    I stopped on the finale where they left Glenn's death as a cliffhanger for the next season. After making the midseason finale a cliffhanger about Glenn possibly dying, but then in the spring run showing he somehow avoided a walker horde under a dumpster on wheels. At that time, we knew Negan was coming, but there was a real question about whether they would follow the comics by batting Glenn (they did), or pick someone else, and the dumpster scene was a huge bait and switch just to drive debate about whether they'd kill Glenn there and make someone else Lucille's first victim. Even when Glenn survived the dumpster, everyone still wondered who'd get the bat, and then for them to leave it on a cliffhanger (a particularly shitty one where Negan picks his victim but we don't see who it is) was too much milking for me. The show just became a protracted mess where shit only happened in two episodes a year, the midseason finale and the season finale.

    Never even saw Negan taking the bat to Glenn.

  2. #12462
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    Yea, bout damn time it was done - but they really pulled it out of the 'crap hole' its been in the last few seasons in these last 4-6 episodes. Me and hubby stuck with it even after the show has gone down hill (Yeah, pretty much every season since the Negan/Glen cliffhanger), but we did appreciate they were at least able to give us a solid ending. Bit of a low body count among major characters, but that's been the rule, rather than the exception with Walking Dead, ever since the Negan/Glen cliffhanger. They certainly took more chances with main characters prior to that, and since, they've *almost all* had plot armor.

    In any case, I'd say the ending is WORTH watching if you care, at all, to see 'how it ends' even if you didn't watch the last few seasons. I'd say start about 4-5 episodes prior (at most), probably get away with just the 2 prior to the finale, just to see the 'lead up' into the main, final, finale.

    And the finale-finale show - just a good, solid, zombie-swarm killing send off. Easter-egg call backs to the first episodes and all.

    Unfortunately, AMC screwed their own pooch (again with this show? lol) several months ago when they announced all the spinoffs, thereby giving 'spoilers' about who was certainly going to be surviving the last of the show. Even Negan's actor scolded them for it, because it DID give away the fact that Daryl, Carol, Negan, and Maggie were all living - as all of them were the announced spinoffs. Carol has since pulled out of the spinoff with Daryl (due to it being in europe) so its just a Daryl spinoff now. Negan and Maggie are in the "Dead City" Spinoff but sorry I have zippo desire to see THOSE TWO characters getting along. They did NOT ever justify why Negan was allowed to live, he was never redeemed for us (me and hubby), and one of the major failings of the end of this show is that Negan lives, and that Maggie never killed him. IMO. So no thanks on the spinoff. To paraphrase Kill Bill here, "That girl deserves her revenge. And he deserves to die."

    And I knew Rick was alive because i've been hearing about the 3 part "Rick Story" movie/season/whatever it is in its final form since the moment he disappeared into the river. I MIGHT watch just to see what Rick's been up to, but that will depend on how long they are asking me to watch =D.

    I've always watched FEAR the Walking Dead since day one - and no, its not better. Not at all, even close, to as good as WD was in the first few seasons. The first couple seasons of FtWD were pretty solid - but as the show went on they've had more and more issues with LOGIC in PLOT of the show, and other stupid bullshit characters do (for no reason but plot - like putting down a useful weapon and leaving it behind after a fight), so I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who had a low tolerance for that in the 2nd half of the Walking Dead years. However, I tend to hang on to shows 'until the end' once I've invested into a few seasons, so I'm still watching. Its a slow watch - I'll go months before I finish the season, but I am watching and just laughing and not taking anything about the show seriously.

    Which is why I don't get why AMC thinks the world wants more spinoffs in this universe when, seems like to this viewer, the interest has done nothing but gone down hill over the years, more and more. I can't even believe Fear the Walking Dead is STILL ON, other than maybe AMC just refuses to let these shows get cancelled at this point no matter how popular, or not, they are. But three more? Ugg. Not interested. Don't care. The writing hasn't shown itself to be 'good enough for more' in at least 3-4 seasons of BOTH shows.

    However, I have no doubt that if Fear keeps going you're going to have more cross-over somehow. With Several WD characters still alive over on Fear, and with Daryl (or possibly other characters) setting out from Walking Dead "into the Western US" its only a matter of distance before they'd start running into Fear and the post-nuke environment that they setup in Fear by blowing a few warheads last season =D. (this is what makes fear fun - guess what - its a post-nuclear-mad-max world there now!)

    (And Rick (think it was him) was wearing a jacket in his end-finale-scene, with the radiation symbol on the back of it, which to me was an easter egg marker for FTWD inclusion.)

    But when Fear actually took a plot point from Sci-Fi's channel "Z Nation", and went FARTHER WITH IT, than Z-Nation did, I knew it had given up on any hope of realism or logic in the show. But it isn't as fun as Z-nation as it still tries to be serious, so it just comes off as stupid.

    However, if you like zombie shows, and like ones that don't mind not taking themselves too seriously (but still have more internal consistency and better (more fun) plot lines than WD/FtWD) then I REALLY RECOMMEND you go watch "Z Nation", scifi channel series. Yes, its campy and has nothing to do with science, but unlike Walking Dead, it doesn't take a nose dive in its show quality and you still care about all the characters you grow to love, even in the final episodes. Something WD/FtWD lost for most of us 4+ seasons ago.
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  3. #12463
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    But when Fear actually took a plot point from Sci-Fi's channel "Z Nation", and went FARTHER WITH IT, than Z-Nation did, I knew it had given up on any hope of realism or logic in the show. But it isn't as fun as Z-nation as it still tries to be serious, so it just comes off as stupid.
    I’m not caught up with fear but will likely finish it unlike the main show, what did they take from Nation Z? I finished all of that show and it was a whacky ride.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  4. #12464
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I’m not caught up with fear but will likely finish it unlike the main show, what did they take from Nation Z? I finished all of that show and it was a whacky ride.
    There were a couple of smaller plot points I can't think of right now that they seem to have in common; but the BIG one was the Nuke-Warheads in the Submarine they (Fear) found. Z-Nation's plot didn't launch those nukes to 'reboot the world' for the "Elites". BUT FEAR DID! MUHAhahahahaaaa.... and yeah...its um.. a plot choice to make. Sure is.

    So yeah, in the WALKING DEAD UNIVERSE we're about to have 4 simultaneous-timeline active shows in (3 spinoffs and Fear) - the left side of the US is a post-warhead wasteland of sorts (more than one fired off btw); the middle-to-right side appears to be fine (current Walking Dead seasons anyway) and there's been no acid rain, fallout, or even radioactive wind blowing their direction =D.
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  5. #12465
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    There were a couple of smaller plot points I can't think of right now that they seem to have in common; but the BIG one was the Nuke-Warheads in the Submarine they (Fear) found. Z-Nation's plot didn't launch those nukes to 'reboot the world' for the "Elites". BUT FEAR DID! MUHAhahahahaaaa.... and yeah...its um.. a plot choice to make. Sure is.

    So yeah, in the WALKING DEAD UNIVERSE we're about to have 4 simultaneous-timeline active shows in (3 spinoffs and Fear) - the left side of the US is a post-warhead wasteland of sorts (more than one fired off btw); the middle-to-right side appears to be fine (current Walking Dead seasons anyway) and there's been no acid rain, fallout, or even radioactive wind blowing their direction =D.
    Ha they really went full on Nuke in fear? I would never have seen that coming.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  6. #12466
    this show died when they killed carl(coral)

  7. #12467
    I want to watch the rest of it but I lost track where I left off. The last episode I watched was with Daryl attending some party in the Common Healths town with a bunch of fancy people, some hysterical dude ran in and start shouting and got captured. Maybe someone knows the title?

  8. #12468
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Ha they really went full on Nuke in fear? I would never have seen that coming.
    Yeah, well not "FULL"H-bomb Nuke, because well the entire region wasn't flat wiped out/destroyed despite the fact that like.. 3 warheads went off. =D. I know there are mltiple-levels of "nuke warheads" now and they aren't all H-Bombs. But yeah, they launched'em!

    And I even remember thinking when they first revealed this plot detail on the show (when our main characters find all this out and the "arch-villian-cult leader of the moment" plan to reset the world) that they must be running out of ideas to be pulling from the last seasons of Z Nation. =D But I thought for sure they'd 'stop the launch' just like Z Nation and... no... no they just went and jumped that shark!

    But never fear - radioactive fallout is only harmful when the plot needs it to be. =D Somehow people within a few miles of the blast are still surviving and finding edible food. Go figure... . I know its TV and all (and so given 'varying levels' of Nukes it could be more realistic to that) but they really didn't need this plot-factor introduced. Especially given the widening plans of the AMC WD universe and the idea that Fear is the same United States as everyone else.

    But at least in the initial blast it killed a teenage character I had been really wanting to see die! (Due to who SHE killed (last well written character of the show of course) and the lack of logic in the survivors (including the family of who she killed) still wanting to save a 14-16 yo female who is /clearly/ a psychopath.) Unlike Negan, at least they didn't give her that full path back to forgiveness. Cuz it was bullshit the survivors were befriending her at all. I won't go into more spoilers for those few who might watch it, when they get to this point in the story, they'll know who needs to die. =D

    I do find it ..interesting? Ironic? That a show and a "world" or "tv universe" that was known for having 'no safe characters' out the jump, and that got successful on that premise - has stopped being so risk-taking and done an almost complete 180 back to "standard TV don't worry no one you really care about is going to die often." TWD did it after Glen/Negan cliff-hanger, Fear did it after the end of s2. I mean I don't mind having favorite characters survive more consistently, I DO mind when the logic of the plot/danger around them then stops allowing for sensical escape.

    Just crappy that a show that was such a genre-changer because of that 'hard reality/horror' in its writing ends up just falling back into trope tv plot armor instead of continuing to push the quality standard higher for other shows. I mean you take early episodes like the 'reveal' of Carol's child at the farm, and even later episodes like "Look at the Flowers" (another Carol episode), and you see what awesomely "REAL", realistic, writing - consequence - and good acting can do with a plot given some meat and dealing with real world issues (death of children). And then you see the episodes in the last two seasons where there's nothing even close to that sort of quality or even a single scene with so much emotional weight (even when a major character dies) - and you wonder 'wtf happened? Who quit?'

    The sheer idea that Maggie and Negan could ever be off together in any sort of positive/'friendship'/'cooperative' way - just does not work. It was clear for a whole season and a half the writers didn't have the capability to know what to do with Negan or how to 'redeem' him and that "Rick showed mercy" plotline. The choice to put THOSE two TOGETHER in a show NOW - it just isn't justified or setup, or all, 'In universe.' "Common enemies/threats" only goes so far. Showrunners clearly stopped giving two shits that their plots and character development make sense and now just want more money on whomever characters they feel can sell a spinoff.

    Which is why I really don't care to watch a single spinoff (and keep wondering when they are going to cancel Fear lol). This universe is done.
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  9. #12469
    I put the show on hold after S10 to wait for the whole last season to come out, and boy, it is so weak. Reapers are hyped up to be such an unstoppable force get obliterated after killing a couple of red shirts who were put in the show 2 episodes earlier. Miltons and Hornsby are the weakest villains this show ever had, predictable from the moment they showed up until the moment they died. The characters were at the peak of their dumbness and they were already plenty dumb before at times. Mercer is a joke, gets so much screen time only to be shown as an indecisive boy who, when he finally decides to do something, gets his show stolen by Gabriel. Just what kind of writing is this? The main cast all grew plot armor thicker than a tank. Sure, they killed Luke and Rosita. Rosita who was meant to die 2 seasons earlier and Luke who wasn't even really a main character, just a prominent secondary one. Obviously can't go with the flow of the comics and kill off one of the guys who took over Rick's part - after all Aaron is gay, so that would be homophobic, and Daryl needs to carry a spin-off.

    Entire plots that would make a whole episode in earlier seasons get "resolved" within a single scene or just dropped. Hell, entire places got dropped. Oceanside? Whatever lul, better spend the screentime on zombies with knives.

    Even the production sucks compared to earlier seasons, with some ridiculous filters and character fade-outs out of a soap opera from 90s. Remember the part when "Stephanie" gets "kidnapped" and she fades out from the balcony Eugene is looking up to? I facepalmed and laughed at the same time. The last few minutes of the show they spent over 10 years filming? This shit literally looked like Beverly Hills 90210 intro, only with blood and dirt.

    Just... ugh. They could have just played the TWD game to learn how to write a thrilling story.
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  10. #12470
    Quote Originally Posted by Koriani View Post
    a show and a "world" or "tv universe" that was known for having 'no safe characters' out the jump, and that got successful on that premise - has stopped being so risk-taking and done an almost complete 180 back to "standard TV don't worry no one you really care about is going to die often."
    Yeah, it's a real pity. They did introduce new characters on the main show as cannon fodder every season but didn't have the balls to kill off old ones. It would even save money, since I'm pretty sure Carol Peletier and Norman Reedus earn a fuckload more $$$ than James Michael Shaw. But I guess after a couple seasons production lost faith in new actors and went with proven fan favorites who never die.

    I mean, look at Lydia. I thought she was a brat in the beginning but she grew on me and after a while I liked her. Why drag her all the way to the end and even have her bitten but cut off the arm just like Aaron. There's so much death in the show, Lydia would have been a prime candidate of impactful death for me if they did it somewhere in season 10.

  11. #12471
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Yeah, it's a real pity. They did introduce new characters on the main show as cannon fodder every season but didn't have the balls to kill off old ones. It would even save money, since I'm pretty sure Carol Peletier and Norman Reedus earn a fuckload more $$$ than James Michael Shaw. But I guess after a couple seasons production lost faith in new actors and went with proven fan favorites who never die.

    I mean, look at Lydia. I thought she was a brat in the beginning but she grew on me and after a while I liked her. Why drag her all the way to the end and even have her bitten but cut off the arm just like Aaron. There's so much death in the show, Lydia would have been a prime candidate of impactful death for me if they did it somewhere in season 10.
    To be honest, this was always an issue THIS show, or ANY TV show has, when trying to make main character deaths more 'regular' or even 'more realistic' (that they die at all.) I discussed it with friends of mine during the first season - those who had read all the comics and those who hadn't - about the 'limited timeline' (of seasons on tv) one can ever have with killing off major characters. (Or even trying to have a long-running show with a zombie apocalypse - but that's a separate topic.)

    The issue is the medium itself (tv series meant to go on for multiple seasons) and the human brain. I think the only way it really 'works' for a tv show, to NOT have plot armor develop at some point for characters, its if its written from the first episode to be 'limited run'. Kept to <4 seasons (at most probably), so you have a set timeline the script is working with - and not having to worry about coming up with 'new plot' season after season, year after year, with old or new characters.

    The Human is not going to re-invest its emotional energy, season after season, in character after character, knowing they all might die "at any minute." No matter how well deserved, well earned, or well-written those scenes and deaths might be. It gets harder and harder to keep engagement, the more and more you kill off. Harder and harder, with every dead character (new or old), for the human brain to re-invest in another character - and so the 'caring what happens' at all, in the show, starts diminishing as well.

    It can work for a few seasons, but not for 5,6, 7 etc. and ongoing. ALL OF US got tired of it. Tired of the character 'churn'. Both tired of losing 'favorite characters' (Hence the Negan/Glenn breaking point for so many) but also tired of the plot-armor that developed for those characters that were left - because all 'the risk' went out the window as well but the show didn't change how it wrote its danger, so the 'plot armor' becomes trite instead of earned, or at least appreciated. Tired of being introduced to new characters every season that we all KNEW were going to be body-fodder and so already starting each new plot with less investment in characters, knowing they are going to die because the body count had to remain up (what the show built its success on) but knowing the major characters weren't going to be the 'heavy' losses.

    The show itself needed to evolve beyond what made it successful. It needed to evolve BEYOND "zombie apocalypse neverending" because THAT story EVOLVES. Because THIS - this "every season there's a new reason we had to re-try civilization in a new place and oh yea zombies too!" can't go anywhere. Its gone there, over and over again, for 12 seasons, and... this is what we got from it. A show that shifted the entire tv landscape/genre because of its willingness to kill off major characters and explore adult/horror themes - and proved you could be successful with it. Becomes a show that is no different from every other show on TV, because they need to churn out more seasons for more $$$ train (?). And now three spinoffs - that don't evolve the plot of the show at all; just 'more of the same.'

    I mean FEAR killed off 80% of its major characters by the end of the 2nd season, and then killed off all but like 3 (!) original 'main' characters left on screen by the end of s3 (I think it was s3, maybe it was 2.5). That didn't make the show BETTER, not at all. It just got to that 'new character churn no one cares anymore' point much faster (btw, those same 3 characters, still alive in current season too lol, at least so far) and the whole show is much less 'serious' to watch because of that (IMO). I know I have literally almost no care at all to see anyone left on Fear "Survive" because of that character-death-burnout effect, but I'm still watching just to see "where they go with it." (and when I have enough free time to watch - lol) I don't watch to see how the survivors 'pull it off and keep living!', I watch to see what silly-stupid-bullshit the writers are filling the story with and to see how ARE they going to let these people (finally) die? =D

    Enough rambling!
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