[TV] The Walking Dead (*Spoilers*)

[BloodyAngel12]

The problem is the shows writing made The Governor look like a good person in the beginning. He did some weird things, but he was always looking after his people and a lot of the shows viewers thought him out to be a good guy. I mean, he just wanted to live, is that any different than what Rick and his group were doing? That is why I usually don't watch shows/movies that are based off of books/comics because they always feel like changing things and those changes can be interpreted to be the opposite of what the original writer was going after. A lot of viewers, some of my friends included, are looking past The Governors evils and saying he just did what he had to do to survive. People like to see things in black and white where someone is either evil or good, and in this case there was so many episode where The Governor wasn't that bad and not enough bad episodes to taint his image in the eyes of some shows watchers.

In the comics the entire premise of The Governors group was to conquer. They wanted what other people had and in the case of Ricks group they wanted the prison. Right off the bat The Governor did some truly awful things to Rick and his group and there was no doubt that The Governor was an enemy. There was no good in The Governors eyes, and if Rick wanted to live he had to either run or fight. Instead we had an entire season of Rick trying diplomacy when there was NEVER going to be any diplomacy. And that made The Governor look like a better guy than he really was.

Im really glad the decided not to make Rick one handed in the show.

[Rabblexthree]

The problem is the shows writing made The Governor look like a good person in the beginning. He did some weird things, but he was always looking after his people and a lot of the shows viewers thought him out to be a good guy. I mean, he just wanted to live, is that any different than what Rick and his group were doing? That is why I usually don't watch shows/movies that are based off of books/comics because they always feel like changing things and those changes can be interpreted to be the opposite of what the original writer was going after. A lot of viewers, some of my friends included, are looking past The Governors evils and saying he just did what he had to do to survive. People like to see things in black and white where someone is either evil or good, and in this case there was so many episode where The Governor wasn't that bad and not enough bad episodes to taint his image in the eyes of some shows watchers.

In the comics the entire premise of The Governors group was to conquer. They wanted what other people had and in the case of Ricks group they wanted the prison. Right off the bat The Governor did some truly awful things to Rick and his group and there was no doubt that The Governor was an enemy. There was no good in The Governors eyes, and if Rick wanted to live he had to either run or fight. Instead we had an entire season of Rick trying diplomacy when there was NEVER going to be any diplomacy. And that made The Governor look like a better guy than he really was.

What? The Governor was as bad in the show as he was in the books. They did a few episodes showing why he was messed up but that does not excuse all the messed up shit he did. No way, no how, was the Governor shown to be a good guy at any point after attacking the military guys.

[Ciddy]

I really don't understand how you can compare Rick to the Governor at all or claim that the Governor wasn't really a bad guy. Are some of Rick's actions questionable? Sure. Maybe that cop in Atlanta really didn't have to die, and there are probably others I've forgotten about.

Does Rick have an entire room with a collection of fucking human heads in fish tanks? Has Rick ever gunned down his entire group for questioning his decisions (and the people in Rick's group do question and disagree with his decisions sometimes, Alexandria is a recent example)? Did Rick straight-up murder someone (like how the Governor dragged Martinez into the Walker pit then murdered Pete because he was second in command and made up a bullshit story to cover the deaths) to get his leadership position in his group? No.

[Waaldo]

What? The Governor was as bad in the show as he was in the books. They did a few episodes showing why he was messed up but that does not excuse all the messed up shit he did. No way, no how, was the Governor shown to be a good guy at any point after attacking the military guys.

I disagree. I thought he was much, much worse in the comics.

I'm not defending the Governor, and I don't think he is anything like Rick. I'm just pointing out where the delusion of "The Governor wasn't evil" is coming from. When The Governor attacked that group of military guys, people on this forum (and I'm sure other forums), defended The Governor's actions. It doesn't make sense to me, but again, I think it has a lot to do with how The Governor was shown when he was first introduced. In the comics, I think in the very first issue he was introduced he cut off Rick's hand and a few issues later he raped Michonne. And The Governors entire group was crazy, just like him. But in the show I don't think they showed anything wrong with The Governor for 2-3 episodes. It just looked like a normal neighborhood trying to survive, and a lot of the people within The Governors group were good people who ended up with a bad leader. It also didn't help that Andrea stayed with him, pretty much until the end.

[Immitis]

"To tell you the truth, if that's the story they gave me, I would rock that story. I'm not afraid of it," "The Walking Dead" star Norman Reedus told Conan O'Brien during a recent appearance on the TBS talk show when asked once again about his character's sexuality.

Fan theories and rumors about Daryl Dixon's sexual orientation have swirled around the Internet since the early days of the AMC hit drama. "Walking Dead" creator Robert Kirkman and star Reedus have both weighed in on the topic of whether the character is gay.

On last night's "Conan," Reedus once again shared his thoughts on the topic, at the behest of O'Brien, saying, "I had a talk with [original showrunner] Frank Darabont early, early on about, 'Would you do it?' And I'm like, 'Hell yeah -- let's do it."

http://teamcoco.com/video/norman-ree...yl-s-sexuality

[Smitzelplix]

They didn't kill Daryl on sight.

But Daryl was someone who was just sitting in the road, someone Joe's group was completely able to surround, Daryl was no threat and really didn't have much fight in him when they found him since Daryl was still devastated by Beth just getting kidnapped. Rick would of been a stranger that popped out of no where in a house that they currently thought abandoned. They were completely different situations that could of lead to completely different reactions from the Claim Gang. Rick was justified about being weary of them after seeing and hearing how the gang was acting.

[Warlord Booty]

...Now I've heard it all on this topic. We've officially crossed the only crazy line we had left in this conversation and there's no point continuing it with opinions so detached from both our normal civilization and the show's reality.

The Governor is a stand up guy. /saaaaarrrrcaaaaasssssm

lol I'm not saying that at all, but in the beginning, the only real "bad" thing, wasn't even bad in my eyes (the daughter), he had hope that they could find a cure. Wouldn't you want to have hope like that? Heads in a jar in a case is nothing worst than some glory hunter posing with the Big Cat she just killed, yeah, it's not fun and puppies, but it is what it is. Over the course of time, in this new world, i think a lot of people slowly lose themselves and degrade with society.

I'm not saying he was a good guy, but at some point he snapped and his world was lost and that was the end of it. He just wanted his vengeance.

I feel at some point, this can very easily happen to Rick. I know the "hypothetical" doesn't fly here, though half of you go off on that tangent regardless, so I guess I will as well. Rick goes out for beers with Daryl and Deanne to get them on the same page, comes back and finds that ASZ was infiltrated by Zs due to Enid being a stupid teen and luring a herd without her knowing. He sees zombie Enid eating Carl and Judith. I think Rick would snap and go a little cray. He's lost old friends, new friends, and family. He hasn't lost everything. He has Carl and Judith and some new friends. Take it all away...

[Rabblexthree]

lol I'm not saying that at all, but in the beginning, the only real "bad" thing, wasn't even bad in my eyes (the daughter), he had hope that they could find a cure. Wouldn't you want to have hope like that? Heads in a jar in a case is nothing worst than some glory hunter posing with the Big Cat she just killed, yeah, it's not fun and puppies, but it is what it is. Over the course of time, in this new world, i think a lot of people slowly lose themselves and degrade with society.

I'm not saying he was a good guy, but at some point he snapped and his world was lost and that was the end of it. He just wanted his vengeance.

I feel at some point, this can very easily happen to Rick. I know the "hypothetical" doesn't fly here, though half of you go off on that tangent regardless, so I guess I will as well. Rick goes out for beers with Daryl and Deanne to get them on the same page, comes back and finds that ASZ was infiltrated by Zs due to Enid being a stupid teen and luring a herd without her knowing. He sees zombie Enid eating Carl and Judith. I think Rick would snap and go a little cray. He's lost old friends, new friends, and family. He hasn't lost everything. He has Carl and Judith and some new friends. Take it all away...

If it happens, we will see. For now Rick and his group are the protagonists.

[Faltemer]

If it happens, we will see. For now Rick and his group are the protagonists.

No matter what I always see them being the protagonists, because no matter what they do the people they are up against are always worse.

[Arrowstormen]

Heroes can go down dark paths once in a while. Rick Grimes IS The Walking Dead though, so I doubt we'll ever see him NOT being the protagonist.

[Xilurm]

Heroes can go down dark paths once in a while. Rick Grimes IS The Walking Dead though, so I doubt we'll ever see him NOT being the protagonist.

I assume everyone is the walking dead based on the fact they have the decease inside them.

[Arrowstormen]

I assume everyone is the walking dead based on the fact they have the decease inside them.

Haw - de - haw.

[cubby]

Heroes can go down dark paths once in a while. Rick Grimes IS The Walking Dead though, so I doubt we'll ever see him NOT being the protagonist.

Exactly. Dark paths but never dark deeds for the pleasure of it. Which is why Rick will always be the Protagonist.

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I agree, that is this all going to come down to to an opinion, on how you see a situation vs how I saw it. For the most part I agree Rick probably had to kill Lou, if not for Michonne's safety his own. But there is also a chance Lou is a reasonable person put in an awkward spot, just like Rick. That doesn't make what Rick did okay, but it makes it so he had no choice. Either way it is possible a good person was gonna come out of that fight killing another good person. And to say he wasn't defenseless is a bit odd, he had what looked like a large assault rifle (Which coincidentally ended up killing him) in a very small bathroom, there isn't much worse of a weapon besides some sort of rocket launcher. And the scissors just happened to be there, for either of them. I think Rick had to kill him, I am not assured of it being completely justified.

In a way this is all a bit how I felt about Dawn. She had some bad in her for sure, much moreso then Rick. But she also let some bad things happen to people because she felt it was best for the people at the hospital. Evil persisted more of out her inability to stop it. Like in a better circumstance with better people, she might have been able to have been talked down and been like Rick in a way, authoritarian, but for the good of people.

Yeah, I think it's best if we just agree to disagree. I feel like I've got all the evidence from the show pointing to Rick being an essentially good guy. You feel differently. We can just leave it at that.

(although, I have to admit, I love a good discussion - so I'd be happy to keep going if you would also like to - I left your last line-by-line unanswered - had a ton of work to get done, then sleep - say the word if you want to continue though )

[Faltemer]

Exactly. Dark paths but never dark deeds for the pleasure of it. Which is why Rick will always be the Protagonist.

Yeah, I think it's best if we just agree to disagree. I feel like I've got all the evidence from the show pointing to Rick being an essentially good guy. You feel differently. We can just leave it at that.

(although, I have to admit, I love a good discussion - so I'd be happy to keep going if you would also like to - I left your last line-by-line unanswered - had a ton of work to get done, then sleep - say the word if you want to continue though )

I think if I thought either of us would relent much more currently it would be worthwhile to discuss, but for now I think we can shelve it. I am sure at some point down the he will do something we see differently again. And then we can pick this back up.

For now we can discuss what I think will either be a very boring or very action packed episode. Either something happens to spur some action (Jesse's husband or Deana crazy son) or we see all of the group reacting to the sudden safety ASZ provides and it's all angst filled characters reacting to mundane things like the preview video for this weeks episode..

[cubby]

I think if I thought either of us would relent much more currently it would be worthwhile to discuss, but for now I think we can shelve it. I am sure at some point down the he will do something we see differently again. And then we can pick this back up.

For now we can discuss what I think will either be a very boring or very action packed episode. Either something happens to spur some action (Jesse's husband or Deana crazy son) or we see all of the group reacting to the sudden safety ASZ provides and it's all angst filled characters reacting to mundane things like the preview video for this weeks episode..

Sounds good to me.

I agree, either mundane but key character building episode or some action from the mixing of the protected vs the survivors. Aaron trying to track Daryl might be good for some quick action, too.

[eschatological]

The interesting thing is that Daryl is a wild card, storywise, since he's not in the comics. He's already uncomfortable in ASZ. We know he was a redneck hillbilly meth head or something before the zombie apocalypse....this kind of scene is not him. Maybe he can be someone who goes absolutely apeshit in ASZ. We've already seen him lose Beth a few episodes ago, and that stemmed from him agreeing with Tyrese (now also dead from a mission to "honor Beth's last wishes") to go at the hospital peaceful-like. I imagine there's some fucked up things going on in Daryl's head. Now it may appear to him that his closest confidante Carol is turning away from him (even though it's all faked for her own purposes). Him being stalked by Aaron might be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Especially considering he's the "jobless" one that Deanna is having trouble pinning down.

Sometimes I think I should give up being a lawyer and go write for Hollywood.

[Faltemer]

Where did you guys see Daryl getting stalked by Aaron?

I definitely think Daryl could be the catalyst for problems at ASZ, at least out of our group. And it is nice, that even comic readers have no idea where his head at, what he is thinking, or where his arc is going.

Carol is hiding incase something goes bad, not to start it herself. And the others seem mostly content with what they have seen so far and if it turns out to be all be true they would be probably keep their head down and contribute. Funnily enough the three on the porch of the last scene of the last episode are the three current people who seem wary of the new place and at east 2 of them could end up purposefully or accidentally messing it up.

[Xilurm]

Haw - de - haw.

Umm, what? Am I missing something here?

[Archimtiros]

Finally got around to watching the latest episode. I almost forgot what Rick looked like without that beard!

Here's hoping the women decide it's time for a shave too!

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Looks like Ricks got a new squeeze though. I already like her better than Andrea. Sure she's got a husband, but he seems like a dick.

[Graeham]

Daryl's definitely a wildcard. I can't say I'm interested to see where he's going though - much like Tyrion in Game of Thrones I've come to loathe both characters quite a bit. Not because they're terrible actors or characters but simply because of how ridiculously overrated they are, often at the cost of other interesting characters being ignored outright or hated for daring to create conflict for the more popular characters.

The whole angle of hating those who enjoy luxury or once had a good life also unsettles me. A lot of people love to bash those who look down on the poor and hard done by but then don't apply that same line of thinking to those who look down on anyone who is civilised. Then again now that most of the characters I liked are gone it's becoming harder and harder for me to watch the show. I still tune in to see what's happening but I no longer follow it as enthusiastically as I once did.

I miss the 'feel' of season 1 and 2. It felt like a completely different show back then.