[TV] The Walking Dead (*Spoilers*)

[Feredir]

Yeah. I found a lot of the early stuff very interesting - such as the trip to the CDC and the speculation over the origin of the virus. Yet it's all suddenly been dropped and never mentioned again. Which...isn't really practical or realistic and feels like a cheap cop out to avoid adding any depth to the most important event in the show's history.

Not really, it's dropped for the following reasons.

1. Rick finds out that everyone is infected and all will turn upon death regardless of the cause of death.
2. The National headquarters for the CDC, the one most capable of finding a possible cure is destroyed.
3. The next nearest labs are in Washington DC, which is where Eugene was taking them, or Texas which is uncharted and wide open territory.
4. Lastly, it makes no sense for Rick and his people to work on finding a cure since none of them have the ability to research or synthesize one.

[draykorinee]

That's what's called a 'framing device'. It's an event or development that causes change for the character and acts as a catalyst for character development. The show is about the main characters, not about the zombies. It never has been. You just don't really understand how narratives work. I honestly don't understand how you could miss it if you still watch the show except out of complete stubborn and willful ignorance because they've flat out said in the show that the walkers aren't 'the walking dead' and Kirkman has said already that the show is about humanity, not about the zombies.

You're confusing yourself, it IS about the zombies, its also about humanity, they are symbiotic. Tbh I removed it because it was just going to be a philosophical bullshit comeback like yours. The walking dead as a universe exists because of the zombies, the characters within the universe exist because of the zombies, you can spout any philosophical nonsense about its all about the people, its not, plain and simple.

The wording walking dead may well stand for the people who are part of the universe, I couldn't care less, its just a title, a title that exists because of the zombies in it, they were the paramount fear throughout the first season, since then its moved in a different direction, people like myself would like to see more zombies, like when they show started, because it was a show about people surviving in a zombie apocalypse.. If it was magical rainbow unicorns it wouldn't be the walking dead universe.

I'm also yet to find any quote from kirkman saying the walking dead is not about the zombies. He did however talk about the importance of the zombies in this quote

Zombies are inherently about people. Your average vampire or werewolf is about a supernatural monster that’s completely unrelatable. But zombie stories are about human struggle, which is relatable to anybody. And I also think zombies are a physical embodiment of death, which is a fear we all have.

The importance of the zombies is pretty obvious, to say its never (even technically) been about them is bollocks.

[Kelimbror]

You're confusing yourself, it IS about the zombies, its also about humanity, they are symbiotic.

We don't follow the zombies and see what their daily life is like. We don't see zombies getting into a tug-o-brains match. We don't sympathize with the zombies, connect with the zombies. Zombies don't drive the narrative with their choices, betray each other, or really have any free will or motivating direction on the story of any kind.

This is like narrative/film class 101 material here.

This isn't a slasher flick. This is an apocalyptic society story. It's about the people, always and forever.

[draykorinee]

We don't follow the zombies and see what their daily life is like. We don't see zombies getting into a tug-o-brains match. We don't sympathize with the zombies, connect with the zombies. Zombies don't drive the narrative with their choices, betray each other, or really have any free will or motivating direction on the story of any kind.

This is like narrative/film class 101 material here.

This isn't a slasher flick. This is an apocalyptic society story. It's about the people, always and forever.

Jurassic park is actually about humans survival when faced in perilous situations and actually not about dinosaurs because we don't see them hunting...seriously wtf.

If you're wilfully ignoring kirkmans own discussions on the importance of the zombies then theirs no helping you.

[Dasffion]

If you're wilfully ignoring kirkmans own discussions on the importance of the zombies then theirs no helping you.

No one is saying Zombies aren't important...as a plot device. The show is about Rick and his crew surviving in a Zombie Apocalypse though. Replace zombies with man eating wolves and the story wouldn't really be any different.

[xuros]

I think the new show will be cool to see the events unfold. But how long do they plan to go with it? Will they focus on a new set of "survivor's" on a different path than what Rick's group is going on? Anyway cool concept, just not sure how much staying power there is for a second show based on the same thing. Unless people get bored with the main show.

[draykorinee]

No one is saying Zombies aren't important...as a plot device. The show is about Rick and his crew surviving in a Zombie Apocalypse though. Replace zombies with man eating wolves and the story wouldn't really be any different.

Umm yes the story would be completely different if it was man eating wolves, kirkman himself already said how it needed to be zombies.

[Kelimbror]

Jurassic park is actually about humans survival when faced in perilous situations and actually not about dinosaurs because we don't see them hunting...seriously wtf.

If you're wilfully ignoring kirkmans own discussions on the importance of the zombies then theirs no helping you.

Completely different framing devices, but yeah ok. If you're going to willfully ignore Kirkman specifically stating it's about the people and their story, you know, like someone mentioned before...well..idk.

I think the problem is you're getting the plot device of people becoming a threat when they die confused with zombies as an entity and a narrative focus. You're right, man eating wolves don't present the same threat...because they aren't people. Even the fact that there are 'zombies' reinforces that this is a narrative about people and how they are a threat.

[draykorinee]

Completely different framing devices, but yeah ok. If you're going to willfully ignore Kirkman specifically stating it's about the people and their story, you know, like someone mentioned before...well..idk.

I think the problem is you're getting the plot device of people becoming a threat when they die confused with zombies as an entity and a narrative focus. You're right, man eating wolves don't present the same threat...because they aren't people. Even the fact that there are 'zombies' reinforces that this is a narrative about people and how they are a threat.

Yup, it's about the people. In a world of zombies. The fact there are zombies reinforces that this is a narrative about people and how they interact in a zombie apocalypse.

[Kelimbror]

Yup, it's about the people. In a world of zombies. The fact there are zombies reinforces that this is a narrative about people and how they interact in a zombie apocalypse.

Correct. It's a narrative about people in an apocalyptic society. I'm glad we can agree.

[draykorinee]

Correct. It's a narrative about people in an apocalyptic society. I'm glad we can agree.

I never disagreed, my issue was with someone saying it's never been about the zombies, because that's the driving force to the whole story. No zombies, no apocalypse, no Rick. One the story was established the zombies became a back story.

[Kelimbror]

I never disagreed, my issue was with someone saying it's never been about the zombies, because that's the driving force to the whole story. No zombies, no apocalypse, no Rick. One the story was established the zombies became a back story.

I think that's misunderstanding due to everyone taking the statements literally, which I can't fault anyone for. It has actually 'never' been about the zombies as they are a framing device for a narrative. That's why I provided such a farcical example of following zombies on their daily lives. That doesn't mean that the specific framing device isn't important to the narrative, quite the opposite.

The thing is, you don't need zombies to be physically present to continue this framing which is how we got on this discussion in the first place because people always complain 'no wai, more rotten face brain munchers or gtfo'. We could not see zombies for an entire season and it doesn't actually change what is going on. It's actually unrealistic to think that the level of encounters and danger would stay at peak levels when people have experience for this length of time unless the zombies themselves evolve ala romero work which actually does use zombies as a subject point and not just framing.

Edit: And that's really the key difference people should be able to use for comparison. In those movies we actually spend screen time with zombies showing how they are changing. That's when it becomes 'about' something (translation: they become a subject not a framing device). Zombies evolving and learning to use guns vs. zombies doing the same things they always do while people get radically different.

[ItachiZaku]

I never disagreed, my issue was with someone saying it's never been about the zombies, because that's the driving force to the whole story. No zombies, no apocalypse, no Rick. One the story was established the zombies became a back story.

I wouldn't have started watching, if it was abo... The Grey.

[cubby]

One the story was established the zombies became a back story.

Exactly, it's not about the zombies. Which is the entire point.

[draykorinee]

Exactly, it's not about the zombies. Which is the entire point.

It was at first. That is the entire point.

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly, it's not about the zombies. Which is the entire point.

It's not anymore no, but that's the point, the first season it was, the people weren't the walking dead, they weren't the main concern, now they are and the zombies have become a side feature.

[Immitis]

It was at first. That is the entire point.

- - - Updated - - -



It's not anymore no, but that's the point, the first season it was, the people weren't the walking dead, they weren't the main concern, now they are and the zombies have become a side feature.

i disagree entirely. season 1 had nothing to do with zombies, it was about a man looking for his family and then trying to remake it once he found it.

couldve been mad max world or aliens for all i care story wouldve been the exact same.

[draykorinee]

i disagree entirely. season 1 had nothing to do with zombies, it was about a man looking for his family and then trying to remake it once he found it.

couldve been mad max world or aliens for all i care story wouldve been the exact same.

Well, we don't agree on much, so I see no reason why this would be any different. If you think it would be the same story in a different setting then we were watching a different show. Avatar is just a film about a man trying to save a culture, you could have just stuck him in 18th century america and had native americans, the story would have been exactly the same.../end sarcasm.

Its interesting that everyone regards the people as the walking dead now (including myself), yet they also regarded them as the walking dead in the first season? I doubt that.

[eschatological]

I mean, there were already people who knew how to "survive" in the zombie apocalypse against zombies by the time the story starts with Rick waking up. CF, Morgan, Shane, Glen et al, Merle, for example. The story was immediately how you deal with how you get on as a human being in this stressful situation, IE, how do you shoot your former wife, how do you deal with your best friend who looked after your family but then started sleeping with your wife because he thought you were dead, how do you deal with being the nerdy Asian kid who basically has to learn how to be badass and earn his keep, or how do you deal with being a scummy piece of shit racist?

Those were the storylines. They were already killing zombies and "surviving" under Shane. That's the whole point - Shane would have been fine if the story was purely about humans versus zombies. But Shane was shit in terms of being a human being in a stressful situation, and that's where all the tension in his story came from.

The story could have been about a world wide plague and this being the story of the human survivors forced underground into increasingly isolated communities for fear of infection that they really can't do anything about, and it would have been the same show. In fact, one could argue that that is exactly the story.

[draykorinee]

The story could have been about a world wide plague and this being the story of the human survivors forced underground into increasingly isolated communities for fear of infection that they really can't do anything about, and it would have been the same show. In fact, one could argue that that is exactly the story.

One could argue either way, I don't think the story would work if it was just a plague at all, like Kirk said, the zombies are a physical embodiment of death, thats why he used them and not a plague.

People didn't know they were the walking dead, they knew if they get bit they would die and turn, but they didn't know they were already infected.

[Immitis]

W. Avatar is just a film about a man trying to save a culture, you could have just stuck him in 18th century america and had native americans, the story would have been exactly the same.../end sarcasm..

yes, yes it would be. just replace alien body switching machines/magic trees with native american voodoo.

then again avatar is one of the shittiest movies of all time with plot depth the size of a piece of paper. avatar is mostly just eye porn that rips off a million other movies