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  1. #41
    You, sir, are either undergeared, poor at playing your class, or possibly both. In fact, I know you are poor at your class based on the simple fact the OP originally stated Hymn of Hope and Shadow Fiend have been nerfed and are worthless. Lets see, 30% of my mana back is worthless?

    I never really chain cast - I spread out the use of Hymn and Fiend if I need them at all.

    I then realized that you also have poor gear, because spamming a spell (heal) that costs like, a little over 300 mana, is ooming you. In fact, I am actually gaining mana while casting heal because my mana regen ticks for higher than the cost of the spell while casting.

    In essence.... learn2play. I hate to use that overused term, but you clearly do not not understand the mechanics of playing holy. People have said it - stop spamming, watch your overheal. and make sure the raid survives. No need to try and top meters - that is silly and is presently resereved for druids.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    While the numbers may be off a little bit, give or take, that's been pretty much my findings already.

    Based on your doubts, I would have to assume you're spamming frivolously as a Holy Priest doing H-ICC 25, perhaps undergeared?

    Yes, all of us are spamming frivolously and are undergeared. You might want to click the link.
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...91408726&sid=1

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Trink View Post
    Yes, all of us are spamming frivolously and are undergeared. You might want to click the link.
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...91408726&sid=1
    I did click the link, and yet 1/3 of the people say they aren't having issues. Hmm... I wonder. And yes, I've been one of those people that still are confused as hell as to how the hell Revitalize goes through every single testing build in a world that mana's supposed to matter. Expect the massive nerf to hit the regen-o-meter hard in 4.1, just like in 3.1

    And some of the lulz to be had in that thread:
    1) We won't be getting more or "fixed at 83 with Archangel", because that's just stupid.
    2) Holy Concentration could be buffed to be 100% more regen from Spirit. It could. It would still show up on Recount Mana Gained as zero, and Priests would still quote that number as "omg they get regen and I don't".
    3) Bitching for Shadowfiend or Hymn to be Innervate Clones won't fix the "problem" either.
    4) "omg paladins were hotfixed"... by learning how to play?

    I push my mana hard, but knowing when to pace yourself has been a mantra of "Priesting" at least until 2.3. But reading someone else's logs or Recount for "Mana Gained" means nothing. Be the Arcane Mage. Sure you can spam one button and go OoM, you can weave in fully efficient heals for low output, but you have to manage both to get the best results, the only thing that matters is not running dry before the encounter's over, not how high your mana bar is at the end of it.

    But Paladin's mana isn't "fixed" magically, either. I'm failing to see where people are getting this from, unless the ones you're playing live with figured out that using Tower of Radiance to get more free Word of Glories out is actually a viable sustainability option, instead of "omg must heal two tanks!"? Because that's been like that for quite awhile. So please, tell me what I'm missing.

    And it's fine for discrepencies between regen, really. Blizz said it perfect when they said "It would be a problem if we balanced around 20 minute fights, but we don't."
    Last edited by Kelesti; 2010-10-21 at 07:07 AM.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  4. #44
    How many priest are still around here from classic? I ask this, because how I play my holy priest after the patch is identical to classic, and I using something like 15 different spells and abilities per fight and haviung no mana issues, low overall, and is the top most effective healer per fight next to the druid.

    Just tossing it out there: People are too use to what healing was in wrath, and have long forgotten that Holy priests use to be the utility "can do everything" healer, and as such, shjould be doing a little bit of "everything" in a raid. We don't need a defined role - our role is that we can perform everything as well if not better than any other class in the game for short periods of time, but if mixed together, we can do it all im bursts throuyghout hte same encounter. People get caught up in "why bring us for x fight if a druid/pally is a better option" - simple, because we are never (or should be never) JUST tank healing, or JUST raid healing - we should, litterally, be doing it "all" - and their is no other healing class out there that can do it effectively... save holy.
    Last edited by Aroll; 2010-10-21 at 03:21 AM.

  5. #45
    I completely agree with Aroll. People seem to forget that there was a time when you didnt spam, well except COH when it didnt have CD but that was op and you still went oom doing it. But I when i started reading about priest I was like finally. they are going to make it again so you can tell the bad ones from the good ones. And im not saying all of you in ICC heroic are bad but if you havent played a priest for a long time or you forgot what we use to be this will be a nice refresher for you. People say we are useless but let me ask you how many top end guilds do not run with a holy priest. None of them they all have one, why because despite the fact that we always dont top meter we are a greater viable healer and if you are good at a preist then you are able to fill all roles required of you and not just be the poor mans druids(i dont know who i stole that from but i thnk that it explains the wrath mentaliy for priest). So look at what you are doing, Guess what Spam renew isnt the way to go anymore. the point of that charka is there so you can if needed cast renew but that dosent mean that it is the best answer for ever fight. People need to realize that raiding is changed, im going to say that there is going to be alot of fights where you have to move. OMG NOT THAT. But oh wait blizz gave us a mechanic so we can be effective while moving and healing.

    So just look at what you have and what you can do. there are a ton of holy spells. When i started reading stuff i thought wow they made pally healing hard. then i come to realize oh wait its just people complaining and holy priest is still the hardest class to play effectively.

  6. #46
    Interesting little factoid:

    Greater Heal(Rank 1) was a viable "raid healing" spell for 3/4 of BC. If the target wasn't in danger of dying, it was a modest amount of health for a modest mana cost.

    We have a spell that emulates that functionality. It's called Heal. With increased health pools, and triage coming back into the fold, meshing Heal in even 8% of your total raid healing (not your main spell, but weaving it in) is a huge benefit to your mana pool. If someone's not going to "DIE RIGHT NOW" you shouldn't treat them like they need to be "TOPPED UP RIGHT NOW" (exception being Chimaeron, but that's only above 10k health).

    I suggest people get into the habit of doing this now, because with the increased health pools, H-ICC still isn't one-shotting people. And it might help be practice for those who seem to be having "mana trouble".
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
    Now TESTING: ArcheAge (Alpha)
    Now PLAYING: MonoRed Burn (MtG Standard)
    Twitter: @KelestiMMO come say hi!
    ~When you speak, I hear silence. Every word a defiance~

  7. #47
    Considering 9/13 fights of the current raid fights are shorter than 5 mins (I disregard Sind cuz of air phases where healers shouldn't be casting and unchained magic), it literally boggles my mind how people blow through all their mana, their hymn of hope, their shadowfiend and a mana pot in that time.

  8. #48
    The Patient tehmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aroll View Post
    How many priest are still around here from classic? I ask this, because how I play my holy priest after the patch is identical to classic
    Cast gheal, watch some TV, cast another gheal, renew that tank, laugh at the feral druid in raid who thinks they will ever dps for reals

    thats what i remember

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxpowr View Post
    Considering 9/13 fights of the current raid fights are shorter than 5 mins (I disregard Sind cuz of air phases where healers shouldn't be casting and unchained magic), it literally boggles my mind how people blow through all their mana, their hymn of hope, their shadowfiend and a mana pot in that time.
    Try 2-healing BQL25 hc. Enjoy going oom in under 3 minutes.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Try 2-healing BQL25 hc. Enjoy going oom in under 3 minutes.
    This is what im talking about fights like this make us go oom, not normal icc but heroic modes.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmah View Post
    Try 2-healing BQL25 hc.
    Your point is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Precursor View Post
    "Fall of therzane....." ....um what? if that woman fell , god help us it will be the second cataclysm
    Words that lots of people don't seem to know the definition of:
    "Troll", "Rehash", "Casual", "Dead", "Dying", "Exploit".

  12. #52

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Vook View Post
    Your point is?
    Read the next sentence maybe ? It's just an example where mana is a big issue. Druids in the same situation don't have to worry about mana, while having similar output.

  14. #54

  15. #55
    I honestly don't think the mana regen situation for a holypriest is that horrible. When clad in ICC277 with two regen trinkets, I will run OOM, but at least I can sustain myself by tracking my manabar and using all regen abilities on cooldown until the fight ends.

    The situation is however skewed. Disc, Shaman and Druid never run oom. Druids in particular are rolling up thousand-mana bills and smoking them for fun without worrying. Paladins and Holypriests run oom. For paladins in particular, this is aggravating as they are reduced to HL spam when running dry - at horrible thorughput. Holypriests are slightly better off as we can still use some interesting spells even after running out of blueberry juice. Ideally though, all healers should be reduced to holypriest/paladin manaregen levels. Make that bluebar count.

    The real question is at level 80. When clad in ICC277 gear with a solace and a spark of hope, you really shouldn't be remotely able to run oom. Holypriests can. I don't know about paladins, since I don't know any paladin actively gearing for manaregen. But as far as holypriests are concerned, I do not believe that this is as it should be. At the end of an expansion, at one tier level more than it was balanced for no less, you shouldn't struggle with mana more than DPSers struggle with hit capping. Because if it is notable now, it is going to be absolutely craptastic when bluegeared at level 85.

    I an live with that. It's the healers lot in life that whenever we get enough mana, it is nerfed. I just want it to be equal. If a holypriest absolutely has to run OOM in 3 minutes, then so should everyone else (assuming our HPM and gear levels are roughly equal). The solution in an equal world is to bring more than 3 healers for a 25man. This is a good thing. The solution in a skewed world is to bring 3 non-holypriest healers. And that is not a good thing.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by tehmark View Post
    Cast gheal, watch some TV, cast another gheal, renew that tank, laugh at the feral druid in raid who thinks they will ever dps for reals

    thats what i remember
    I think you must of been in a pretty bad guild I take it. I was in a serious hardcore guild that did ZG, MC, BWL, AQ40, AQ20, and Naxx. If All I did was cast gheal, watch tv, gheal, renew tank, watch tv... not only would people die, I would be a complete waste of a raid spot. There was even MORE damage going out back then due to the high number of raiders, and holy priests back then were one of the BEST tank healers... and tanks got absolutely crushed. Hell, even just facing Ragnaros it was a none stop healing fest. Flash heal, greater heal, poh renew - we used it all on almost every single fight for very long periods, constantly watching overheal and making sure we used the right rank of x spell to lower it. No need for top rank of flash if rank 1 will get the job done.

    I remember have every single rank of every single spell I had on my bars and the skill came in knowing which rank to cast in the given situation. What is actually funny is I was pugging a 25 ICC a month or two ago and we had to run with 7 healers to get the job done (fail healers are fail) - and I laughed because we ran with 7 healers during 40 mans.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-21 at 01:30 PM ----------

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1425&e=1675

    4 healing H BQL yesterday. I didn't go OOM, and did 13k HPS even though I really didn't need too, was just curious how high I can get. You know what was funny there about not going OOM? I pretty much just spammed PoH, which is eve worse than a renew cycle for mana. Pretty hilar about all the complainers. Guys, raiding hasn't gotten hard for holy - stop comparing us to disc, druids, shamans... etc. We are not any of those. We are the Holy priest, the most effective and most difficult to play helaer int he game, but if mastered, the most powerful healer in the game. Once you guys realize this class is no longer designed for spamming the happier you will be.

  17. #57
    I don't know why, but spamming PoH on BW don't make me OOM. I use sfiend halfway, use a manapot at 75%, and that's enough to win with around 10% mana remaining when she dies. Whee.

    Spamming renew on BQ makes me use my sfiend after 1 minute, potion before 1min 30s, and I'll be screaming for innervates before the first airphase even starts. Let's not talk about the part after the first airphase, I am still in therapy after that experience. ... So many people dying, and I was... powerless!

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Aroll View Post
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=1425&e=1675

    4 healing H BQL yesterday. I didn't go OOM, and did 13k HPS even though I really didn't need too, was just curious how high I can get. You know what was funny there about not going OOM? I pretty much just spammed PoH, which is eve worse than a renew cycle for mana. Pretty hilar about all the complainers. Guys, raiding hasn't gotten hard for holy - stop comparing us to disc, druids, shamans... etc. We are not any of those. We are the Holy priest, the most effective and most difficult to play helaer int he game, but if mastered, the most powerful healer in the game. Once you guys realize this class is no longer designed for spamming the happier you will be.
    So you didn't go OOM...but you needed 2 innervates, a fiend, and a mana pot to generate about half the throughput of a resto druid mindlessly spamming 2 buttons. And this makes holy the most powerful healer in the game? Personally I don't find the mana issues in holy to be quite as dire as some of the people here, but it is absurd that there is a 1000+ mp5 difference between comparably geared healers just because of class/spec.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Rayella View Post
    I honestly reforged all my spirit into other stats, I am not finding myself running out of mana. If I get low, I ask a caster druid for an innervate or use hymn+shadowfiend. In PVE or PVP, I don't find myself ever out of mana, perhaps you are being too liberal with your heals?

    if you are spamming flash heal, you will run out of mana. That spell is very expensive and as a holy priest, you should be mainly raid healing, only flash healing for spikes, if that. Also, Prayer of Healing is fairly expensive, so spamming that will run you oom. Sticking to CoH, PoM, and Renew should be efficient enough. Use Chakra to increase the healing by renew, etc. I would not use Heal for the time being, it is far to weak at level 80.
    It's easy to do now. At 85, its a whole different matter. Try to spam expensive spells lol. Oom in 20 seconds :P.

  20. #60
    It would be interesting to see a level 85 holy priest join an ICC raid consisting of otherwise level 80 people. Would he perform better than the level 80 healers?

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