Ideal crit %?

[Deepfriedegg]

Coz it's better for hunters not to. Stand on max range of green in the middle of the room (near Putri's table). Do max dps. If the Ooze chooses you, FD before the last second it hits you. No explosion and everyone gets about 5 seconds max DPS coz he has to repick. If you don't kill him by that time, he chooses anyone and you're already stacked.

Doubt it really matters coz of lol 30%

OK, I am in a 10 man guild and mostly our DPS is 2 hunters (FD), shadow priest (Dispersion), mage (iceblock) or a warlock (teleport). Everyone has a reason not to stack with the rest and do max DPS instead... Yet we do group up because melee or healers can still be targeted and they would get killed if not by 1st explosion then by 2nd for sure

[Squall13]

I didn't know you were in a lol10man guild so yeah you probably need to stack unless you know that Trap Launcher + Snake Trap solves your dying problems.

Same reason you can't call him a special snowflake.

[Deepfriedegg]

Suggested crit is about 70% raid buffed so u can reach 100% at the first 20% of the fight (1/2 Careful Aim).

1) basic crit cap is not 100% but 104%.
2) at 70% crit there is 33% chance you will waste 11/9% crit and 33% chance you´ll waste 4/3% crit in first 30 seconds of fight - depending if you have normal or heroic DBW and if you get crit or Agi proc

I'd say the sweet spot is about 13%

If you are going to max your Mastery, you will be way over this anyway because you will get rid of crit and your StS cast will be already around 1.25 (ISS, Pathing, 10% raid buff)

A drop to about 53% crit is acceptable. Spec 2/2 CA for this.

I would recommend speccing only 1/2 in CA, that gives you 91% crit raid buffed already. Crit is not that valuable for MM as it was because our crit multiplier is much lower than pre patch and PS will not tick that hard. I would rather use that point for some form of utility, second point of CA makes you waste at least 17% crit

[harky]

There are only 2-3 items that have marginally more haste than crit.
He couldnt have that crit because he said he reforged all crit to mastery.
850 rating points - do you know how much is that? You would have to have 2000 rating of a stat ON GEAR (crit is a stat with highest rating on hunter gear) and that is simply not feasible. You can barely get to 23 Mastery points (15 from gear, meaning almost 1700 rating on gear)

No, you're just constantly misunderstanding. Reforging 850 points = 340 converted to a stat.

With 277 gear you can hit ~1800 crit rating and ~500 crit rating while being hit capped. If you reforged all that crit you're still have 1,080 crit rating on gear. That's still >50% crit when combined with having 2500+ Agi. Really, did you not look any of this up beforehand? Silly.

[Deepfriedegg]

I didn't know you were in a lol10man guild so yeah you probably need to stack unless you know that Trap Launcher + Snake Trap solves your dying problems.

Same reason you can't call him a special snowflake.

Thanks for TL+ST tip, will try it tonight

---------- Post added 2010-10-20 at 04:04 PM ----------

No, you're just constantly misunderstanding. Reforging 850 points = 340 converted to a stat.

With 277 gear you can hit ~1800 crit rating and ~500 crit rating while being hit capped. If you reforged all that crit you're still have 1,080 crit rating on gear. That's still >50% crit when combined with having 2500+ Agi. Really, did you not look any of this up beforehand? Silly.

Yes, I misunderstood you meant 850 points in mastery. Nevermind. Absolutely BiS 277/284 mix offers 1790 crit with 2600 AGI (all agi gems except for 2 to meet the meta).

Now look at this:

humm, i reforged every piece of gear i had crit -> mastery and now i have 28.?? mastery and just over 60% crit unbuffed. idk haste just feels important to me.

Every piece of gear he had crit on, not just 340 points.
So if he has absolute BiS and only reforged 340 points of mastery, he can have 62% crit and 28% mastery, but that is not "i reforged every piece of gear i had crit -> mastery"

To quote you: Really, did you not look any of this up beforehand? Silly.

[Daetur]

So.... I'm not a theorycrafter.

But, we all agree that MASTERY is better than either crit or haste.

With the changes to ArP, I only had ONE piece of gear that had more Haste than Crit on it. Reforging Crit ((which, for the record, I do believe to be worth less than Haste)) gave me MORE Mastery in the long run because there was more Crit on my gear to be reforged. For example, A piece has 50 haste and 100 Crit. I reforge the crit, then it has 60 Crit and 40 Mastery with 50 Haste. If I had reforged tha haste, it would have been, what, 100 Crit, 20 Mastery, and 30 haste? That's a net loss of 20 Mastery.

I dunno, I'm not mathy by any means, so I don't know if that view is accurate at all... but, since no one can seem to agree whether Crit or Haste should be reforged, that's why I chose Crit.

I didn't know you were in a lol10man guild.

God, I can't wait to pass 25m guilds in progression and make them cry about us getting the same gear, just to piss off elitist assholes like you. No one cares that you can herd cats better.

EDIT: I'm sorry. Not going to retract this statement, but I realize that it was one hell of an asshole response. Just touchy that because I'd rather not deal with 25 raiders, and prefer to feel like my individual actions, responses, and performance matters more, I'm somehow LESS than you.

[ASO]

Can't do that, but I can get my steady shot time down to 1.37 and the GCD resets well before the steady shot finishes casting. Take it for what its worth.

I'm now illuminated and do believe it's a 1.0 GCD because you guys cracked an egg of knowledge on my head.

Or, it was because I got my Steady Shot to 1.5 and noticed that the GCD was done way before it was finished casting. So, it's either benefiting from haste (doubtful), or it's a 1.0 GCD.

[harky]

Every piece of gear he had crit on, not just 340 points.
So if he has absolute BiS and only reforged 340 points of mastery, he can have 62% crit and 28% mastery, but that is not "i reforged every piece of gear i had crit -> mastery"

To quote you: Really, did you not look any of this up beforehand? Silly.

His quote can't be taken literally due to the poor English. It doesn't change that having 50%+ crit and '28%' on mastery being impossible after reforging all his crit as it would be quite possible not just in 277 gear where you'd only need to reforge 1/2 your Crit, but also in 264 gear. Accusing people of lying on the basis that what they're saying is impossible is fine unless what they're saying is in fact possible. In this case it is possible, so unless you have some other reason not to believe it I don't understand the need to keep defending the position that they aren't being truthful. There's no evidence that they aren't.



And yeah, Chelate. It's very evident during RF/BL when we have 1 second (or lower) Steady Shot's, but no delay after using them.

[Squall13]

God, I can't wait to pass 25m guilds in progression and make them cry about us getting the same gear, just to piss off elitist assholes like you.

You can't. We never cared about 10mans getting gear. The same as you shouldn't be caring if we can better gear coz we can "herd sheep better". I wish you luck though since almost half of the Cata bosses I've tested in beta is tougher in 10 than in 25.

EDIT: I'm sorry. Not going to retract this statement, but I realize that it was one hell of an asshole response. Just touchy that because I'd rather not deal with 25 raiders, and prefer to feel like my individual actions, responses, and performance matters more, I'm somehow LESS than you.

On a competitive 25 raiding environment everyone's individual actions, responses and performance matters. 0% H.Deathwhisper, Putricide, Sindy and < 15% LK.

-------------

Back on topic.

Most of the top hunter parses (between 19k and 21k) I've analyzed are running with about 65% Crit raid buffed, 40% Mastery, about 22%-23% Haste...

..and a non-bugged weapon.

Seeing this benchmarks are hard to reach for normal raiders, some general benchmarks to follow are..

1. Having enough crit to keep you pet above 50 focus
2. Having enough haste to support a 1.5 second Steady Shot (to fit a "basic" 5 shot / Chimera flow) with 10% raid buff and 3/3 Pathing. People have to keep in mind that haste is kinda like ArP now, where it only shows effectiveness when you naturally have a lot already. Example, it takes 25% haste to get 5 focus per second.
3. Rest goes to Mastery.

Or forget theorycrafting and Spec BM or Surv.

[xuros]

Mastery > Haste > Crit on movement bosses.
Dummy wont give you real value of haste.
Btw, gemming agi and reforging haste is just overkilling crit %.

General rule of thumb is you want a 1.5 second cast on steady. Also crit weighs more on DPS than haste is for all specs. Mastery - crit - haste for BM and MM, for survival crit - haste - mastery due to not having cobra shot yet. Least its what im getting from EJ and zeharahs spread sheet on femaledwarf.com.

[Nyco]

It is not about reforging haste to mastery, or reforging crit to mastery, its about reforging whichever stat is higher on your gear to mastery.

If a piece of gear has 100 Crit and 50 Haste, and
a Mastery reforge of Crit will give you 60 crit, 40 Mastery and 50 Haste
a Mastery reforge of Haste will give you 100 crit, 20 Mastery, and 30 Haste

We reforge crit, because it gives us more mastery. The same would work if haste gives you more mastery, however, you will find with the vast majority of your gear (at least higher tier) the crit far outweighs the haste, sans a few pieces.

Pre 4.0.1 I had 0% haste (not counting quiver) 1400 ArP, and approx 62% crit
Post 4.0.1 I have 690 Mastery (41% chance for wq), 23% haste, and approx 55-56% crit

Mastery will ALWAYS outweigh BOTH haste AND crit, so it is what you want to maximize first and foremost. I have crit remastried on ALL of my gear except 2 pieces I believe, which I choose haste, but the difference was very very marginal (i believe 4 points).

[Squall13]

I don't exactly follow that rule to the dot since WQ proc does not scale to Mastery rating to the dot.

Just an example, not exactly accurate.

a 690 Mastery rating means 41% chance for WQ. But a 660 Mastery Rating is also a 41% change for WQ. That is 30 wasted rating. Because there's no such thing as 40.25% chance to proc WQ

Like I said, the example above is not accurate. I lost the bookmark I had on now much exact rating you need to increase of % of WQ

[Nyco]

By no such thing, you have this in writing, or you're going off the fact that your tooltip doesn't show .00%'s, it would go to say that 1 point of mastery gives a 2% chance, we know this. We also know that .5 mastery gives a 1% chance, so wouldn't it make more sense that blizzard is simply cutting off the .00% in the tooltip rather to believe that they are allowing us to 100% waste a stat conversion?

[Squall13]

May or may not be true such as on then first incarnation of ArP when no one has exactly values of combat rating coversion and Blizz simply gave us "Reduce armor by UP TO <insert number here>.

I'm treating this as the same.

[Nyco]

Thats fair enough, however, using the logic of Blizzard, I can't think of any other stat in the game that disregards additions to it simply because it doesn't round to a whole number. Even femaledwarf's mastery rating takes into account the 00% for the stat. I also believe that expertise tooltips work the same way.

[Squall13]

Yeah I understand you mean and It is rather silly for me to think about wasted ratings. However, I chose this approach just for the lack of exact combat rating conversions and the lack of outside buffs that can change Mastery. This just basically makes me comfortable in chasing whole numbers on a fairly new stat.

Back to the topic. I'll not agree fully on the Master > Crit & Haste generalization only because I considered people who are not in relatively BiS gear. For you and me, reforging everything to Mastery would still leave us at about 55%+ crit unbuffed. Lower geared people might not have this luxury and imo, should not follow that "rule".

Case and point. I was running Dedicated Insanity for a guildie last night and my crit on that set of gear is about 43%. I doubt reducing it further by turning it to Mastery would be a dps increase.

[Nyco]

femaledwarf.com has been updated for 4.0.1, while I cannot guarantee the numbers, it will give them an overall idea of what stats should be weighed highest for their setup. I think you're severely underestimating the value of an extra shot at 115% damage versus the rng of crit, particularly with 2/2 careful aim. I'd take my chances with a % chance to fire a shot that does base 115% damage, with a chance to crit, versus just a flat chance to crit. Albeit your crit rating will get pushed down a bit.

I can't be assed to run numbers, however, I'm pretty sure mastery should still be optimized at any gear level.

[ASO]

femaledwarf.com has been updated for 4.0.1, while I cannot guarantee the numbers, it will give them an overall idea of what stats should be weighed highest for their setup. I think you're severely underestimating the value of an extra shot at 115% damage versus the rng of crit, particularly with 2/2 careful aim. I'd take my chances with a % chance to fire a shot that does base 115% damage, with a chance to crit, versus just a flat chance to crit. Albeit your crit rating will get pushed down a bit.

I can't be assed to run numbers, however, I'm pretty sure mastery should still be optimized at any gear level.

It seems broken, still. It's not accounting for my pet's damage (literally says 0.0), and it places my personal DPS at 6k (which is very, very wrong).

[Zorgen]

Im at 52.52% crit and I usually top the dps charts or am just under the mages.

Once Cataclysm hits your crit chance is going to drop to nothing anyways, just raid and have fun till then.

[Squall13]

femaledwarf.com has been updated for 4.0.1, while I cannot guarantee the numbers, it will give them an overall idea of what stats should be weighed highest for their setup. I think you're severely underestimating the value of an extra shot at 115% damage versus the rng of crit, particularly with 2/2 careful aim. I'd take my chances with a % chance to fire a shot that does base 115% damage, with a chance to crit, versus just a flat chance to crit. Albeit your crit rating will get pushed down a bit.

I can't be assed to run numbers, however, I'm pretty sure mastery should still be optimized at any gear level.

You'd have to take into consideration that you don't get much mastery either when reforging at low levels of gear. A 50 crit rating would jsut give you 20 mastery etc etc. And if you think I'm severely underestimating a 115% AUTO SHOT RNG proc then you are also underestimating the value of crit at low levels with the changes made in 4.0.1

1. Serpent Sting Crits
2. Gfft only giving 5/10 focus
3. Change to Wild Hunt.
4. Pet Scaling

My pet is doing a whole 1k more dps because of this changes.