Solar Eclipse - Sunfire problems

[Dessan]

Ok so basically i was stood at a target dummy, going through my rotation after I swapped to Black Magic on my weapon.

And part way through I realised that after my last cast to hit Solar Eclipse I had to wait for the spell to hit to cast Sunfire else I casted Moonfire and it resulted in a DPS loss.

What I'm wondering is if there are any ways to get around this, all I can think of so far is casting an extra Starfire before I reapply my DoTs, or cast Moonfire and then cast Sunfire right after because my spell should have hit.

Is there a best way of these two or a third way to avoid this problem at all? It's kinda annoying that I've been doing what I thought was a near perfect rotation only to discover my DPS coulda been that slight bit higher if the full cast of the Starfire as opposed to the spell hitting would be the thing to proc Eclipse.

Any help would be appreciated.

[Thalur]

There is a simple way around this. When you reach Eclipse, cast first IS and apply MF/Sunfire afterwards. This is not only for Solar Eclipse, but for Lunar as well, since Lunar gives a damage bonus to MF.

To avoid this problem, simply stick to our rotation. Eclipse Proc -> IS -> MF -> resume spam till next Eclipse.

[Rudy]

i have a question, does the nature grace proc from dots, affect the first dot that you have done?

let me explain better
lunar eclipse-insect (nature grace procs)-moonfire --- does insect swarm buffed by 15% haste?

[Lilija]

There is a simple way around this. When you reach Eclipse, cast first IS and apply MF/Sunfire afterwards. This is not only for Solar Eclipse, but for Lunar as well, since Lunar gives a damage bonus to MF.

To avoid this problem, simply stick to our rotation. Eclipse Proc -> IS -> MF -> resume spam till next Eclipse.

Actually this isn't correct since this way your IS won't benefit from Solar.

Eclipse proc has a delay therefor you should never cast DoTs just when it procces. You should always cast a spell with a cast time when the eclipse procs.

I myself use this nice addon called BalancePowerTracker. It has really neat option to show an info in the middle of the screen if eclipse procs after current cast. So basicly, if I'm casting Starfire and see "Eclipse (Solar)" info I already know next spell I need to queue is Wrath. After that wrath I apply DoTs.

As for not casting Sunfire being a dps loss - it's not. Sunfire is currently bugged - it doesn't benefit from haste. So even not eclipsed without NG Moonfire does more dps than Sunfire. It means that if you shouldn't overwrite Moonfire with Sunfire. You should use Sunfire only if Moonfire drops. And it's no loss if you cast Moonfire instead of Sunfire on the eclipse transition. Ofc, this applies as long as Sunfire is bugged. When it gets fixed (hopefully) using Sunfire in Solar will be the best thing to do.

[Thalur]

Actually this isn't correct since this way your IS won't benefit from Solar.

Did you test that? I was under the impression that the DoT ticks from IS are stronger as long as you are in Solar Eclipse, no matter when you cast it.
However I can't confirm right now that it really works that way.

[DaChicken]

Did you test that? I was under the impression that the DoT ticks from IS are stronger as long as you are in Solar Eclipse, no matter when you cast it.
However I can't confirm right now that it really works that way.

Actually its incorrect becasue your IS wont benifit from Natures Grace granting you more tics. ALWAYs cast MF/SF first to proc NG and then apply IS

[Deleted]

Well, DOTs are supposed to change as our haste changes mid combat, but unfortunately this is not the case at the moment. The tooltip say that they do, but they don't seem to actually do it. Yet. I can only imagine that its the same deal with an IS that was put up before Solar Eclipse activates - the damage of the DOT won't change. Heck, I better go check that out..

Anyways, easy fix for this is to reach 100 solar power and then cast a wrath. The wrath will finish after the eclipse has taken on, and then you can throw up your DOTs. For lunar, you can use a GCD on casting IS, because it doesn't matter, and then go on to lunar moonfire.

---------- Post added 2010-10-19 at 06:27 PM ----------

Nope, IS doesn't change when you proc eclipse

[Kallume]

imo, regardless if your next Wrath will proc Solar Eclipse, you shouldn't stop casting to wait for the Solar Eclipse to proc, you should be casting an extra Wrath while the Wrath that is going to proc the Solar Eclipse is in flight.

Obviously no flight time on Starfire, so this method does not apply.

[Lilija]

imo, regardless if your next Wrath will proc Solar Eclipse, you shouldn't stop casting to wait for the Solar Eclipse to proc, you should be casting an extra Wrath while the Wrath that is going to proc the Solar Eclipse is in flight.

Obviously no flight time on Starfire, so this method does not apply.

This doesn't make much sense. If you are casting a wrath that is going to proc Lunar eclipse next cast after that should be Starfire ... and other way around. The only thing is you should not cast DoTs when the eclipse is going to proc since it has a tiny delay.

[thungor]

i saw a dude hit a solar eclipse and he said he was trying to keep it up he even explained why keeping it up would be better dps lol

[Lilija]

i saw a dude hit a solar eclipse and he said he was trying to keep it up he even explained why keeping it up would be better dps lol

I have no idea what you are talking about o.O

[Agroculture]

Did you test that? I was under the impression that the DoT ticks from IS are stronger as long as you are in Solar Eclipse, no matter when you cast it.
However I can't confirm right now that it really works that way.

Is does benefit from Solar,however if you cast it right after the spell that procs solar eclipse,it won't get the benefit since eclipse has a delay.Same situation as the OP.Thus,cast one more spell then refresh your dots.

[Sunfyre]

Okay. Let me fix about 800 incorrect statements in this thread.

a) Never cast insect swarm before Sunfire. ESPECIALLY now, because Sunfire is bugged and doesn't tick as often as it should. Whichever DoT causes the Nature's Grace to proc does NOT get the haste. You want this to be Sunfire, not Insect Swarm.

b) Currently, due to the bugged Sunfire, you only get a marginal DPS increase if you use sunfire over a non-eclipsed Moonfire in Solar Eclipse. (Sunfire ticks 9 times, Moonfire ticks 12 times, 9x1.37=12.33).

c) In Lunar Eclipse you should ALWAYS cast Insect Swarm first, as you want your Eclipsed Moonfire to get the haste benefit, not Insect Swarm.

[Kallume]

This doesn't make much sense. If you are casting a wrath that is going to proc Lunar eclipse next cast after that should be Starfire ... and other way around. The only thing is you should not cast DoTs when the eclipse is going to proc since it has a tiny delay.

I agree.
I agree based on that you would have to be 100% sure that that Wrath would cause the Eclipse, which I suppose would pertain to my example.
Perhaps I am stuck in the old mind-set of timed Eclipses, and the desire to apply DoTs right away.

[Dessan]

So as I'm seeing so far, rotation would be based around this:

DoTs, SF til Eclipse, Sunfire, IS, Wrath until Eclipse, IS, MF? (Obviously throwing in SS when it's up)

Basically swap the dots around dependant on the Eclipse proc as atm things are a bit broken..?

[Sunfyre]

So as I'm seeing so far, rotation would be based around this:

DoTs, SF til Eclipse, Sunfire, IS, Wrath until Eclipse, IS, MF? (Obviously throwing in SS when it's up)

Basically swap the dots around dependant on the Eclipse proc as atm things are a bit broken..?

Correct, and it's ideal to innervate, force of nature, or starfall when Nature's Grace is not down so you don't burn a GCD casting something that doesn't benefit from haste.

It *appears* that Sunfire does slightly more damage then Insect Swarm, so once Sunfire is fixed, you'll always want to lead off with it in either Eclipse.

[DaChicken]

I have no idea what you are talking about o.O

I think he is saying the same thing I do, which is to refresh sunfyre just before it switches to moonfire on its own. I can do this and have sunfyre easily beat moonfire in damage done in fewer ticks.......and i never clip sunfyre either.

[Deleted]

Correct, and it's ideal to innervate, force of nature, or starfall when Nature's Grace is not down so you don't burn a GCD casting something that doesn't benefit from haste.

It *appears* that Sunfire does slightly more damage then Insect Swarm, so once Sunfire is fixed, you'll always want to lead off with it in either Eclipse.

A very quick test (very, very quick) put my IS slightly ahead of sunfire. IS came out with 25500, sunfire with 24350, and moonfire (during lunar) came out at 29.600 damage. I took off my trinkets and avoided any Nature's Grace, Black Magic or engi gloves procs.

Could do more testing, but I really don't see the point. The DOTs are so close to each other at the moment. Once sunfire gets fixed, sure, it might be worth casting over IS, but it's not super relevant now.

I think he is saying the same thing I do, which is to refresh sunfyre just before it switches to moonfire on its own. I can do this and have sunfyre easily beat moonfire in damage done in fewer ticks.......and i never clip sunfyre either.

So what you are saying is that it takes you 18 seconds to move from the middle of the meter (where you are refreshing sunfire) to the other end of the meter? Sure, if you are that low on haste, you might as well cast sunfire just before you exit solar eclipse, but then you might as well do the same for moonfire just before you go out of lunar eclipse.

[Lilija]

I agree.
I agree based on that you would have to be 100% sure that that Wrath would cause the Eclipse, which I suppose would pertain to my example.

You can be 100% sure of eclipse proc. There are addons that show you info if current cast procs Eclipse (already gave a name few post above)

---------- Post added 2010-10-20 at 09:10 PM ----------

So as I'm seeing so far, rotation would be based around this:

DoTs, SF til Eclipse, Sunfire, IS, Wrath until Eclipse, IS, MF? (Obviously throwing in SS when it's up)

Basically swap the dots around dependant on the Eclipse proc as atm things are a bit broken..?

Imo, it should be DoTs, SF/Starsurge till Eclipse, wrath/starsurge, Sunfire, IS, wrath ...
and when going Lunar way, DoTs, wrath/Starsurge till Eclipse, SF/Starsurge, IS, Moonfire, Starfire ...

[Sunfyre]

A very quick test (very, very quick) put my IS slightly ahead of sunfire. IS came out with 25500, sunfire with 24350, and moonfire (during lunar) came out at 29.600 damage. I took off my trinkets and avoided any Nature's Grace, Black Magic or engi gloves procs.

Could do more testing, but I really don't see the point. The DOTs are so close to each other at the moment. Once sunfire gets fixed, sure, it might be worth casting over IS, but it's not super relevant now.


So what you are saying is that it takes you 18 seconds to move from the middle of the meter (where you are refreshing sunfire) to the other end of the meter? Sure, if you are that low on haste, you might as well cast sunfire just before you exit solar eclipse, but then you might as well do the same for moonfire just before you go out of lunar eclipse.

I've done 15mil damage on a training dummy and then compared damage (with IS and MF/SunF glyphed), and Sunfire had a slightly higher (we're talking 100 or 200 damage) average then Insect Swarm.. but I guess that 100 adds up to quite a bit when you're talking 300 ticks. So once they both tick at the same frequency it should be doing more damage.