SW:D Buff, thoughts? + epic pic

[Rizzoti]

Whenever you hear someone complaining about a spec being made 'bland' 'unfun' or in this case a spell losing its 'appeal' or its 'soul' it usually means that the spec/spell was overpowered and all those complaints can be translated into 'don't nerf me bro'.

Or maybe it's bland and unfun now, which it is.

Now scatter away to whatever forum you frequent because you're adding nothing here.

[Thrayne]

While I can't speak for beta rotations/priorities, I don't understand how you can describe a spriest's rotation on live as bland.

5-6 button priority and you get another one <25% so 7 buttons is alot better than the more cut and dry rotations many other classes have.

I'm not saying it is really complex but alot more "fun" than a ton of other specs.



OT: I don't understand your picture at all, you don't indicate if the SWD was critting on <25% target or >25% target. (I can only assume <25% seeing as the person is bowing) and if it was a crit <25% it is much weaker than it is on live now. Raid buffed my SWD were critting for 30k in ICC (so ~ 21k before the buff) which is a very good place for a execute to be.

In pvp it crits for 10-18k in my experience, and with the glyph anyone who survives a 16-36K (two non crits/two crits) burst deserves to live. I don't understand why everyone is QQing about it. It just lost it a place in our priority and only has a place in and execute phase since it is a EXECUTE spell.

It is in a very solid place right now, I don't understand why people want a spammable spell that hits like a truck, gives you mana, and can prevent CC's but without doing too much damage where you have to think before you cast it.


The people complaining seem to be FoTM Spriests and can't appreciate a balanced spell.

[Rizzoti]

The people complaining seem to be FoTM Spriests and can't appreciate a balanced spell.

Numbers don't concern me so much. Style does. This spell is just another (keyword) mindless ability. Let me ask you this...why are we even able to cast it if the target is above 25% health? What's the point in that? It is what it is...something you hit when the target drops to 25% health. What bothers me is the opportunity to make it a little more interesting. I thought the idea to make it consume your dots (which mind spike should -not- do), in order to buff its damage or crit would add a small degree of complexity and thought to when to use the ability. But I think it's clear the direction Blizzard is taking this game: less thought is better.

[Agroculture]

Or maybe it's bland and unfun now, which it is.

Now scatter away to whatever forum you frequent because you're adding nothing here.

But somehow it wasn't bland and unfun when it produced the majority of your dps.Got it,thanks for the correction.The functionality of the spell is exactly the same,the only thing that changed is the numbers it produces.Yeah,its an execute mechanic,big whoop,nobody noticed before.

That said your idea isn't half bad but then again it would require Wrath kitty levels of hoops to jump through to maximize dps.Lining dots to drop off nearly simultaneously with the CD of Death etc etc.Still it's got merit.

[Thrayne]

Numbers don't concern me so much. Style does. This spell is just another (keyword) mindless ability. Let me ask you this...why are we even able to cast it if the target is above 25% health? What's the point in that? It is what it is...something you hit when the target drops to 25% health. What bothers me is the opportunity to make it a little more interesting. I thought the idea to make it consume your dots (which mind spike should -not- do), in order to buff its damage or crit would add a small degree of complexity and thought to when to use the ability. But I think it's clear the direction Blizzard is taking this game: less thought is better.

>25% SWD would be for mana or to counter a poly or something, which makes casting it require thought/skill. Your point is invalid.

[Kelesti]

"But Thrayne, with my shadowfiend out all the time, I don't have to worry about mana. Why would I want to use a lower damage ability, when I don't need to and I can use Dispersion if I get low at 85 but my shadowfiend will still be out all the time"
/sarcasm

[Annesh]

whiners will get over it. numbers will be balanced. the sun will rise.

everything will be okay.

EXCEPT MIND SPIKE PVP THAT SHIT WILL NEVER FLY RISE UP MY BROTHERS oh wait 90% of spriests are 100% raiders these days, my bad.

jk jk

man i'm mellow right now.

[Thrayne]

"But Thrayne, with my shadowfiend out all the time, I don't have to worry about mana. Why would I want to use a lower damage ability, when I don't need to and I can use Dispersion if I get low at 85 but my shadowfiend will still be out all the time"
/sarcasm

I will maintain 45% crit and haste all the way to 85, whatchu talkin' 'bout Willis?

[Kelesti]

And your 4pc10!

[tehmark]

I don't understand how you can describe a spriest's rotation on live as bland.

Having SWD in the mix as a high damage spell sure made it a little more fun though. Now I feel like I just toss up my dots and mind flay. For the brief SWD fun time it was very exciting and chaotic monitoring an extra cooldown.

[Kelesti]

Having SWD in the mix as a high damage spell sure made it a little more fun though. Now I feel like I just toss up my dots and mind flay. For the brief SWD fun time it was very exciting and chaotic monitoring an extra cooldown.

For the general rotation, yes. But that's not what most people view it as, they feel ripped off more that they can't Fury Warrior Execute spam their way to the end of the boss fight.

[Ananan]

It actually took until level 84 before it was worth replacing my 4-piece T10. Everything else was long gone by then (I didn't have very impressive trinkets to start with). Let's hope a setbonus won't carry a spec like that ever again...

[Thrayne]

Having SWD in the mix as a high damage spell sure made it a little more fun though. Now I feel like I just toss up my dots and mind flay. For the brief SWD fun time it was very exciting and chaotic monitoring an extra cooldown.

You are doing it wrong then, you need to be MBing, this isn't 3.3.

OT: While another button to press is fun, spamming only it <25% isn't fun at all. They could have left the damage alone and nerfed the glyph (which they finally ended up doing)

[Rizzoti]

>25% SWD would be for mana or to counter a poly or something, which makes casting it require thought/skill. Your point is invalid.

The second part has some validity, as far as countering poly or something. But wasting a gcd for a 1500 damage spell for a bit of mana is absurd. My point is invalid? My point is that once again the skill is essentially again just a mindless 'when x happens, do y' ability. There are ways to make the skill a little more interesting. I listed a couple.

So what is this overly complex spriest rotation? Keep up your 3 dots, mind flay until 3 orbs and then mb. When the target drops below 25%, sw: d. Wow, I don't know if I can handle that.

[Kelesti]

Come back to me when you start using Dispersion for the mana, and tell me that six seconds of zero damage is better than 5 casts of Death.

[Bumthex]

[Quote]OT: I don't understand your picture at all, you don't indicate if the SWD was critting on <25% target or >25% target. (I can only assume <25% seeing as the person is bowing) and if it was a crit <25% it is much weaker than it is on live now. Raid buffed my SWD were critting for 30k in ICC (so ~ 21k before the buff) which is a very good place for a execute to be.

In pvp it crits for 10-18k in my experience, and with the glyph anyone who survives a 16-36K (two non crits/two crits) burst deserves to live. I don't understand why everyone is QQing about it. It just lost it a place in our priority and only has a place in and execute phase since it is a EXECUTE spell. [Quote]

A 9k instant on a full wrathful paladin with 1300(+50% effectivity) resilience is kinda rofl. With the x3 buff its not that fun anymore.

[say10]

Well, there seems to be an inordinate amount of idiocy/trolling/ignorance going on in this thread but here goes anyway.

This isn't a buff it is exactly how sw:d works on live currently. They just got the changes done in one sweep rather than repeated hotfixes.
Secondly yes the shadowpriest rotation is extremely bland - 2 dots maintain, shadowfiend > mind blast > mind flay. You have to remember than for two days we had a 'really exciting' rotation i.e. different to wotlk. Dont forget spriests have to move on instants to max dps so another instant spell really turns things up a notch. It's just enough to make it not mind numbing which was really nice, unfortunately Blizzard didn't see it like that. Also shadowpriests no longer have an instant spell to cast on the move a la fireblast.

Noone wants to be overpowered. The problem is that this change made our rotation easy and made it the weirdest/most frustrating spell I have ever used in pvp. It is like a life tap so you have to use it if you are getting low on mana but then it is on a TEN second cooldown if someone goes low in the meantime. It is like an execute but because you can cast it at any hp hits after the target has been healed by a small % and no longer hits for large damage. It is just a frustrating mechanic.

Despite all these negative effects of the changes to SW-D I am still VASTLY overpowered. It is hard to tell with no arenas but in battlegrounds I can play whilst watching tv and still easily obtain 40-0+. Now admittedly bgs are hardly a good measure but I rarely see anyone else even close to me. This is the reason spriests are complaining about the sw-d change. It was a poorly thought out, ill considered hotfix that has now become a change that mutilated an archetypal spell in the name of balance and failed utterly to acheive it.

[Thrayne]

The second part has some validity, as far as countering poly or something. But wasting a gcd for a 1500 damage spell for a bit of mana is absurd. My point is invalid? My point is that once again the skill is essentially again just a mindless 'when x happens, do y' ability. There are ways to make the skill a little more interesting. I listed a couple.

So what is this overly complex spriest rotation? Keep up your 3 dots, mind flay until 3 orbs and then mb. When the target drops below 25%, sw: d. Wow, I don't know if I can handle that.

Again you are wrong, you MB on CD. That leads me to be your spriest is some sort of alt that you know just enough to complain about.

If you read my entire response you would have seen that I said it is the more complex/requires more thought than alot of other classes. You keep DoTs up, but you don't "clip" as to waste dps time/and mana and if you wait too long you let it fall off and you lose damage, plus keep MB on CD and MFing between to reduce SF CD, proc SOs and so on.

That is standign still, the intricaticies come in when you equate it to movement, switching targets, and other stuff that is involved in an encounter.

I'd be the first to say Spriest is a very easy class to play and much more difficult spec to master.

[Rizzoti]

Again you are wrong, you MB on CD. That leads me to be your spriest is some sort of alt that you know just enough to complain about.

If you read my entire response you would have seen that I said it is the more complex/requires more thought than alot of other classes. You keep DoTs up, but you don't "clip" as to waste dps time/and mana and if you wait too long you let it fall off and you lose damage, plus keep MB on CD and MFing between to reduce SF CD, proc SOs and so on.

That is standign still, the intricaticies come in when you equate it to movement, switching targets, and other stuff that is involved in an encounter.

I'd be the first to say Spriest is a very easy class to play and much more difficult spec to master.

Well, priest isn't my main. You're right there. Shaman is. But I was planning on making my priest my main, though not anymore.

Anyway, as far as clipping..that was partially fixed. I'd tell you how, but I'll let you go read ej and see for yourself. I'm not convinced using mb on cd is the right way to go. I'd have to see some testing. The fact 3 orbs essentially means a 102% damage increase to the spell is a huge gain. And the cost is what? Just spamming mind flay to build those orbs. Is the tradeoff for not using mb on cd enough to warrant that huge damage boost to mb? Again, I'd have to see a lot of testing to prove either way. My gut tells me that stacking 3 orbs is the way to go. A lot of posts at ej seem to agree.

Back on subject...wasn't this thread about sw: d? It is what it is: a mindless execute. So whatever. That's what it is.

---------- Post added 2010-10-21 at 09:31 PM ----------

Come back to me when you start using Dispersion for the mana, and tell me that six seconds of zero damage is better than 5 casts of Death.

Why would you do either? Why are you running out of mana? Something is wrong if that's the case. SF is your friend.

[Kelesti]

Why would you do either? Why are you running out of mana? Something is wrong if that's the case. SF is your friend.

Because when you strip away the 4pc10 bonus, and the crit/haste from over-inflated stat budgets (277 instead of 245), Shadowfiend goes from "your friend" to "that nice neighbour that drops by from time to time". The amount of mana you get from it is severely diminished by its new "uptime" (or more accurately, lack thereof).

Your mana expenditure also goes up exponentially high, compared to live.

Shadowfiend at 80 is not Shadowfiend at 85.

Again, come back to me when you think 6 seconds of Dispersion is better than weaving in 5 Shadow Word: Deaths over the course of its cooldown. Because you will be doing one or the other, now that Shadowfiend is not enough to keep you stable.