Disc Beta Testers- We want to hear from you!

[Bigslick]

holy nova is the second option, but due to small range it cant be always reliable.

Imo, change the holy nova glyph to give it an extra 5 yard range. As it stands, the current glyph's value weakens as you add haste. This would give a fairly nice aoe heal option.

[raivyne]

I am currently testing Disc on beta. Throughput is very low and mana regen is even worse. I find myself running out of mana extremely fast. Our shields do so little absorbing compared to the damage being taken at level 85. I agree that disc is fine on live and even a little more fun giving the atonement talent, but it is not holding up at 85. Maybe I'm just doing it wrong... lol

the next avenues I'm going to try:

1) reforge for pure mastery

2) try SoS (though I admit I don't have much faith heal - half the throughput of flash and 1 second longer cast-time (even after 3 talent points)).

Edit:

OK this beta build, Archangel seems to be only giving 1% total mana per stack of evangelism (tooltip says 3% per stack and in prior builds it has worked per stack). The +healing is working as indicated. Perhaps they are doing base mana instead of total mana, but the tool-tip says total and its consistently 1% per evangelism... so i dont think base/total mana ratio would work out that neat, but what do i know?

Decided against reforging mastery and SoS as well. Opted for more crit and haste when possible and spirit on anything that didn't have it already (2 pieces of gear i think).

It seems Train of Thought is an even better talent than I realized. Penance is pretty mana efficient heal, so having it ready sooner is very important in the mana starved days i'm seeing atm.

[Suzaku]

If Archangel is only 1% mana per stack then it is completely not worth taking at all. You might as well skip the entire Smite aspect of Discipline and get Veiled Shadows for a 3 minute Shadowfiend and spec for Strength of Soul. It might allow for better mana regeneration if you use the Shadowfiend constantly once your mana dips before 75% or 80%. The biggest problem that I have for Smite/Atonement healing is the random aspect of Atonement. For example a rogue is hit in melee range, because he got cleaved. I shield the rogue and put a Renew on him. But because I didn't cast a direct heal, most likely then Atonement would heal the rogue because he's at a lower HP and percentage than the tank, even though the tank is the target that continually takes a damage and requires constant healing.

Strength of Souls and Train of Thought are both lackluster talents to me that doesn't seem to give value to the Discipline Priest. The problem with the Discipline Priests is that the entire tree is still too centered around Power Word: Shield and once more powerful gear becomes available, eventually all Discipline Priests will return to spamming Power Word: Shield again and the coefficient of Shield would be nerfed yet again which would just infuriate Discipline Priests.

The overhaul of the Discipline Tree didn't give a second ability to Discipline to support the tree. Smite to Evangelism to Archangel and Atonement needs to be reexamined both for PvP and PvE, because having Smite healing be equal to Shadow Priest healing is stupid. Also having a heal that is completely "random" with no target also makes the talent worthless because the heal doesn't always land on the person that you want. Discipline is also very pressed for GCD and Haste will just become more needed as more raid contents come out.

[raivyne]

This is the build I'm using I dont believe that 1% mana per stack of evangelism is working as intended. Also, its a 4min shadowfiend, not 3.

I would still say that with only getting 1% mana per stack, it is still worth getting Evangelism and Archangel IMO. The synergy that Evangelism, Archangel, Atonement and Train of Thought create is very strong. You provide healing while DPSing and also lower the CD of your best heal spell in the process. I don't find the random nature of the smite heal to be problematic. If you are keeping shields up on the melee, then your tank is almost always the one that gets the heal. I have found that in the instances where the tank doesn't get the smite heal, the melee that does get it was in the most need for the heal anyway for whatever reason.

It's not as if you are relying on atonement for most of your healing, if you are - you're doing it wrong I think. I typically get five stacks of evangelism for the healing buff, then shield, PoM (by this time shields and PoM needs refreshed), Penance, toss a smite or two in then penance and repeat. (i use flashes for extra healing in times of large inc damage and supplementing PW:B on pulls I know are going to be AoE or damage heavy).

When i first began doing instances, I always felt like I couldn't keep shield up because of the amount of damage coming in. it was a little overwhelming, but as i've gotten better at shield uptime, my mana problems have eased up a bit.

Just did a group where DPS were all pulling 5k+ and mana was not an issue. The previous runs I was having issues in, top DPS were about 5K and one or more was doing about 3k. It's very important to shield everyone when their weakened soul falls off for mana gain... I admit I was slacking on this at first.

So, I think if you have a decent group it's fine... but having anyone not pull their weight is problematic for mana.

This is the build I'm using - cata.wowhead.com/talent#bfGoMRsbcRMoMhMZh. I did not take Soul Warding because I do not have enough haste (IOW I can recast shield pretty much as fast without the talent as i can with it) and also, in five mans I think it is not as strong of a talent as it would be in a raid environment. I am not to the heroic level yet, so I may be picking it up at that point.

I'm really tired, so I apologize if I rambled a bit. lol

[Suzaku]

This is the build I'm using I dont believe that 1% mana per stack of evangelism is working as intended. Also, its a 4min shadowfiend, not 3.

I would still say that with only getting 1% mana per stack, it is still worth getting Evangelism and Archangel IMO. The synergy that Evangelism, Archangel, Atonement and Train of Thought create is very strong. You provide healing while DPSing and also lower the CD of your best heal spell in the process. I don't find the random nature of the smite heal to be problematic. If you are keeping shields up on the melee, then your tank is almost always the one that gets the heal. I have found that in the instances where the tank doesn't get the smite heal, the melee that does get it was in the most need for the heal anyway for whatever reason.

It's not as if you are relying on atonement for most of your healing, if you are - you're doing it wrong I think. I typically get five stacks of evangelism for the healing buff, then shield, PoM (by this time shields and PoM needs refreshed), Penance, toss a smite or two in then penance and repeat. (i use flashes for extra healing in times of large inc damage and supplementing PW:B on pulls I know are going to be AoE or damage heavy).

When i first began doing instances, I always felt like I couldn't keep shield up because of the amount of damage coming in. it was a little overwhelming, but as i've gotten better at shield uptime, my mana problems have eased up a bit.

Just did a group where DPS were all pulling 5k+ and mana was not an issue. The previous runs I was having issues in, top DPS were about 5K and one or more was doing about 3k. It's very important to shield everyone when their weakened soul falls off for mana gain... I admit I was slacking on this at first.

So, I think if you have a decent group it's fine... but having anyone not pull their weight is problematic for mana.

This is the build I'm using - cata.wowhead.com/talent#bfGoMRsbcRMoMhMZh. I did not take Soul Warding because I do not have enough haste (IOW I can recast shield pretty much as fast without the talent as i can with it) and also, in five mans I think it is not as strong of a talent as it would be in a raid environment. I am not to the heroic level yet, so I may be picking it up at that point.

I'm really tired, so I apologize if I rambled a bit. lol

The Shadowfiend was a typo. However I am referring to the random nature of Atonement in 25 man raids and not in 5 mans. In a 5 man group, there only at most 2 melee DPS, so the healing spread is still semi-controllable. However when there are 5-7 melee DPS in there with the tank, then the random nature of Atonement becomes problematic, because Discipline does not excel in raid healing since we can no longer spam Shields. Discipline Priests are now pushed toward tank healing again. To upkeep Evangelism and Archangel for maximum mana regen, a Discipline Priest needs to spend 8-10 seconds out of 30 seconds Smiting and to have only 50% of those heals actually land on the tank is abysmal and it forces the Priest to pop Greater Heals or Flash Heal if the tank is not completely geared. Since the Atonement healing is random, it arbitrarily creates spikes in tank damage due to a lack of consistent healing from one of the healers.

[raivyne]

Ahh... Yes, I can see the problem it could create in a 25man raid environment. I wish I had more time to gear up my beta priest so I could have been raid ready by the time they began testing.

[Surea]

I have yet to have issues with atonement in a 25man raid environement but it could be a problem yes. I hope that they would make the smart heal so that it would heal the person with a grace effect and let grace only proc from penance.... a girl can dream though

[Suzaku]

Perhaps this is an obsolete point. Train of Thought is very lackluster, even with enough Haste to get Smite to 1.5 cast. You would need 4 Smites totaling to 6 seconds of cast time to get Penance to an 8 second cooldown (the Penance cooldown pre-4.0 with Aspiration). Considering that Smite Healing is equivalent to Shadow Priest healing and Blizzard is okay with such output, the talent for Train of Thought is pointless to reduce cooldown of Penance. It is only useful for Inner Focus cooldown reduction. If you needed immediate healing, it's better to cast a Flash Heal than to cast Smite, since Atonement is random and it might not even land on the tank.

[Planet]

Soo looks like Greater Heal is the way to heal tanks. Being soft haste capped for shield spam is not enough, simply because shields absorb only ~11-12k, which is nothing compared to the damage taken. Of course, they are still used for rapture procs and borrowed time, just not really a spam option anymore.

As good as Mastery may seem on live atm, haste and crit are more beneficial on beta. The plan is to Greater Heal tank, while using shields here and there, and smiting a little when archangel is up (is it still broken?). Ideally Flash Heal should be avoided... costs about same mana as Greater Heal, but heals for less.

Since most of this spells depend on int (aka spell power), gemming and enchanting should be more towards int. However some yellow slots in premade gear give nice benefits, so I put int/mastery orange gems there. The main point is: mastery will only increase shield absorbs and scaling is pretty horrible (I think I got my shields to absorb only 13k with over 1k mastery), while int will increase shields, heals, crit, little mana regen. So you won't lose that much from your shields favoring int gemming and enchanting over mastery. I would favor haste over mastery as well (I believe for gloves enchant and something else).

I can see all of this changing as we get better gear and shields will be top priority again with Mastery as a desired stat, but as of now with crappy blue gear, it's more like pre bc healing again. Might start pre-casting and canceling those Greater Heals again.

[cruxxy]

Might start pre-casting and canceling those Greater Heals again.

Cast cancelling... how retro.

[Aliahna]

Can some of the beta 85 priests list your stats for us? I am specifically interested in the stats of those that are heroic geared and " raid ready." What is your spellpower, crit, haste, and mastery at?

[ProBubble]

I wince as i see your Shield absorbs 11-12k is nothing at all, i was doing that size pre-patch days only to find it almost halved over the patch. Now we have a bubble that is only a little bit stronger than any of the other specs, less healing than holy by a long shot, less passive healing than shadow and an end tree talent that has little to no use in PvE but is a little decent in pvp. Is this the herald of a strictly pvp spec for Priests? or is there going to be some tweaks to give us back our pure mitigation, tank healing abilities? Its all good and well saying "it will be better in cata" but if you cant see the benefits now, where are they going to come from later? We all know that the disc mastery sucks (though it promises a lot, yet still sucks).

At the minute running ICC a disc can hover as a mid level healer, this will onyl get worse as holy pally's, druids (spam heals blizz?), and even holy priests are getting their mastereies increased to give meaningful results. Yet discipline priests, as we are generally quieter and as you said have more faith that we will be fixed eventually, are being left to gather dust and simply not be worth taking to a raid as we are no longer offering any real benefit to a group. Druids can heal plenty well enough to not have to need mitigation to take the load off them, Holy pally's have been returned to the top fo the tank healing roster (after recently being replaced with shammy's or holy priests in my group).

It has been said, Discipline is failing to benefit a raid group at the minute, Pain suppression and power infusion may be nice littel extras but is that worth leaving throughput healers behind?

For throughput I can sustain a good level for a short period of time, using renew, flash, and PoH. if PoH is not working for you check your stats as it gives the equivalent of 4-5x Heals on the same cast time and that is fine for raid healing, Smite healing is the best thing in the world EVER, said due to it being a nice low mana cost, not a horrendous cast time and even helps us proc something else.. but cmon you really think a 1.5sec cast of 15k is enough? Insta cast with cd pl0x but i may be fixated onto trying to heal RS10 hc in which Holy priests excel due to the high amounts of insta cast heals and the "should be disc" talent of Body and Soul (that run speed is really awesome), in which all a disco needs is one more decent tank heal to make healing inside the shadow realm solo'able.

[Deleted]

It is a shame that we are being torn away from Mitigation when Disc is based on it in the first place. We share all our healing spells with Holy Priests with them having the enhanced versions via Chakra etc etc, If our bubbles are too weak as they are now it will kill the spec.
Divine Aegis needs sorting out, I seem to be getting less crits since patch and PW: Barrier is laughable right now.
Ive tried QQ on blizz forums to be greeted with fellow priests feeling the same way but no responses whatsoever from the Blues.
I wonder if any of the Devs actually play a disc priest. Evangelism/Archangel nerf has upset me [2% per stack would have been better], and im wondering the viability of a smite spec now in Cata.
Time will tell I suppose..ive always got my Resto Shaman to fall back on if Disc gets screwed over because I refuse to roll Holy as main spec.

[Aliahna]

I agree Paris, I will either just retire from raiding or try to compete for a spot as DPS. I have never enjoyed the "whack-a-mole" healing style of holy. Where reaction time and latency of the player has a lot to do with effectiveness in beating out the other healers. It's just not that appealing, of course I consider specs primarily from a 25 man raiding viewpoint, not from 5 man or casual play. I do realize Cata will curtail some of the free for all, who ever is the fastest on the draw is the best healer mentality, but it still isn't my cup of tea.

[Suzaku]

It is a shame that we are being torn away from Mitigation when Disc is based on it in the first place. We share all our healing spells with Holy Priests with them having the enhanced versions via Chakra etc etc, If our bubbles are too weak as they are now it will kill the spec.
Divine Aegis needs sorting out, I seem to be getting less crits since patch and PW: Barrier is laughable right now.
Ive tried QQ on blizz forums to be greeted with fellow priests feeling the same way but no responses whatsoever from the Blues.
I wonder if any of the Devs actually play a disc priest. Evangelism/Archangel nerf has upset me [2% per stack would have been better], and im wondering the viability of a smite spec now in Cata.
Time will tell I suppose..ive always got my Resto Shaman to fall back on if Disc gets screwed over because I refuse to roll Holy as main spec.

WTB Re-roll Holy Paladin as our mastery. They practically got Divine Aegis through Illuminated Healing anyways.

[Deleted]

because Intellect has absolutely nothing to do with output.
/sarcasm

As Azyoulike has already said:

+Intellect actually benefits more than +damage or +healing would, thanks to the wide variance in tools that Discipline has, and this number can easily be adjusted if Discipline starts to fall behind.

But this isn't a discussion about Discipline theorycrafting. This is a thread looking for those with actual 85 experience in Descent, Bastion, et cetera.

Intellect does a lot for throughput, but not the same as a %-based increase. 15% extra Intellect means your average healing spell might heal for 5% more than before.

I'm not saying it's bad, as it adds crit, mana and spellpower, but it doesn't increase the throughput to the same degree a direct 15% increase would.

[Planet]

I know there was a lot of QQ about smite healing on blizzard forums, but the better half of us were actually excited about the new idea of being dps/healing class. Since that's the new concept, replacing the mitigation role, why make it so underpowered? 8 yards... 13k crit on a good day... broken Archangel. Simply not cutting it.

I find it most effective to Greater Heal tanks in 10 man with Train of Thought 2/2 and Inner Focus macro-ed to the heal. In 25 man.. I don't even know, it's pretty horrible for disc. Shields on main tanks and critical targets, probably spec into Renews too (reforge to higher haste and put points in Improved Renew instead of Darkness or Inspiration). I would smite, if it wasn't so bad, but oh well. Of course, Penance and PoM as usual.

Trying with this stats atm (not buffed):
Int - 4910
Spir - 2219
SP - 6629
Haste - 1223
Crit - 814
Mastery - 485

[Ansa]

Im kinda baffled at the amount of blindness that is going on my fellow Discpline Priests...
Using Smite-Attonement is costs less (gets better and better with Evangelism), returns 1% mana per Smite (if just used until 5 stacks) and heals for about the same amount as a Heal, faster casting time, better coefficient but most importantly ITS OPTIONAL

If its optional, why do everyone scream, that its a disaster with nerfed regen when it casted a long shadow on Heal?
We have way more important issues than our filler heals not being as mana effective
Were in need of a % increased healing on all spells to catch up AND some proper AoE support to actually land about 15% (Holys Chakra) behind Holy on it

[Suzaku]

Im kinda baffled at the amount of blindness that is going on my fellow Discpline Priests...
Using Smite-Attonement is costs less (gets better and better with Evangelism), returns 1% mana per Smite (if just used until 5 stacks) and heals for about the same amount as a Heal, faster casting time, better coefficient but most importantly ITS OPTIONAL

If its optional, why do everyone scream, that its a disaster with nerfed regen when it casted a long shadow on Heal?
We have way more important issues than our filler heals not being as mana effective
Were in need of a % increased healing on all spells to catch up AND some proper AoE support to actually land about 15% (Holys Chakra) behind Holy on it

But the problem is that Blizzard seems to be using Smite as a bandage on our problems and the bandage isn't even worth using now anymore.

[Ansa]

But the problem is that Blizzard seems to be using Smite as a bandage on our problems and the bandage isn't even worth using now anymore.

Why wouldnt it be worth using anymore? After some calculations, the nerf is completely correct imo
With 80k max mana 1% base mana = 182 mana
Attonement = Heal in healing amount
After casting 5 casts, they both break even costing the priest exactly the same amount, aka the perfect balancing of an optional spell rotation
(So stop complaining about Archangel and focus on the overall raid experience for Disc Priests)