1. #1

    So.. 271 LK xbow or Zods HC?

    After all the changes, which one is the better choice? From going from Zods 277 and Haste reforged into Mastery TO
    Lk 271 xbow and Crit reforged into Mastery, I saw a noticible dps increase on testing dummies, around 1k more dps with the latter.
    (Sitting at around 10.3k dps after 6million damage as MM, unbuffed other than wolf and hawk)

    I know Dummies dont really reflect raid situations, and I understand that quite abit of the crit is gone to waste on the dummy considering the dummy is always >80%, but which is a better set up for raids? + is Chimera Shot worth using with the haste route (271)? TEsting dummy said yes, allthough keeping the 15% damage increase on the serpent sting for so long might not give proper results :S


    Anyways, main question being, which weapon is best for dps atm.
    Last edited by Uthy; 2010-10-20 at 12:21 AM.

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Rukah's Avatar
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    bump for therycrafting!

  3. #3
    Haste on Zod's Repeating Longbow?

    Anyway its worth looking into Fal'inrush, Defender of Quel'thalas has some nice stats

  4. #4

  5. #5
    ZoD hc for higher gs ofc.

  6. #6
    i would prefer the 3.0 speed xbow from lk, as i dont think the weapon damage is normalized - a 2.8 bow cannot reach the ability damage, just better for autoshots (about 20% of damage, 80% of damage is based on lower weapon speed prefering skills)

  7. #7
    Warchief Thereign's Avatar
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    Weapon dps is the most important stat on any ranged weapon.

  8. #8
    hunter dps sucks overall atm, so use any weapon you like, kk

  9. #9
    Epic! Lilcheeks's Avatar
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    I didn't do any lengthy tests on the dummies, just a couple short ones(~3 mil damage) but the 271 xbow seemed to be doing better for me as MM. I'm going to try raiding with it tonight as well.

  10. #10
    No theorycraft here, but a guildmate of mine tested Zods 277 (speed 2.8) against the 264 ilevel PVP bow (speed 3.0). Her shots actually hit harder with the PVP crossbow, a full tier behind and wasting itemization on resilience. Overall damage was about the same with the reduced autoshot frequency and no proc (and slightly lower WQ numbers as a consequence). While I can't test until tonight, this strongly suggests to me that the 271 LK bow is going to be a significant upgrade on Zods 277. This also helps explain why the very top hunters, using 284 LK bows, are seeing less of a drop in their DPS numbers than those of us with 277 Zods. Whatever change it was that made weapon speed a huge factor again has less impact on the top guild hunters than those on the next rung down. (Not to say, of course, that skill has nothing to do with it. Top guild hunters are in top guilds and killing HLK for 284 bows for a reason.)

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereign View Post
    Weapon dps is the most important stat on any ranged weapon.
    Zod's damage is 638-1186 (325.8)
    and Lk xbow is 746-1120 (311.1)

    Yet the Xbow seems to win for me :S Is ti because of Zod's low 638 starting point? Ill go play more with the dummies but every time the xbow has done more, ATLEAST 500-600 dps more, sometimes over 1k+ (these are with long 6-7 million damage tests)

  12. #12
    Warchief Thereign's Avatar
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    Are the ranged weapons still bugged?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereign View Post
    Are the ranged weapons still bugged?
    Seems so, my normal zods have 294 dps and my heroic stakethrower have 343 dps, same ILVL.


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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zergal View Post
    Seems so, my normal zods have 294 dps and my heroic stakethrower have 343 dps, same ILVL.
    They fixed it like last Wednesday. Are you on US realm?

    Back to the topic, I saw somebody said in 4.01 our shots are calculated using weapon speed instead of a normalized value. If this is true then by all means slower weapon wins.

    Even if that's not true, let's compare this two weapons side by side.

    H Zod and Fal'Inrush, the actual DPS difference on character is only 7.

    Zod gains 7 weapon DPS.
    Fal'inrush gains +36 crit (can be reforged into mastery) and +36 haste.

    Zod's weapon proc is really really weak in 4.01 based on my own experience after two weeks' raid.


    If you ask me, Fal'inrush is the winner.
    Last edited by coolposter; 2010-10-20 at 09:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Thereign View Post
    Weapon dps is the most important stat on any ranged weapon.
    Except that all our shots have been changed to rely more on our AP then Weapon Damage. When it comes down to the difference of just a small amount of weapon DPS we are going to have to consider other factors. Between the two the OP is talking about there is only a 14 DPS difference on the weapons. You really need to look at the min/max damage of each weapon, Zod's hits for more on the high end but less on the low end. Xbow has green stats, Zods Heroic has the extra auto-shot plus a gem slot.

    With the extra stats plus the better "average" damage the Xbow is probably going to win out for most people. Zods Heroic would need to constantly hit on the higher end of it's damage to put out more DPS then the LK Xbow plus the stats on the Xbow affect our shots now more. Someone who is Marks with high lvls of Mastery may see Zods do better for them since so much of their damage is based on auto-shots. Yes the Mastery doesn't affect the extra shot from Zods but again most of Marks damage comes from auto-shots and those are still based on weapon damage.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Organoth View Post
    Except that all our shots have been changed to rely more on our AP then Weapon Damage. When it comes down to the difference of just a small amount of weapon DPS we are going to have to consider other factors. Between the two the OP is talking about there is only a 14 DPS difference on the weapons. You really need to look at the min/max damage of each weapon, Zod's hits for more on the high end but less on the low end. Xbow has green stats, Zods Heroic has the extra auto-shot plus a gem slot.

    With the extra stats plus the better "average" damage the Xbow is probably going to win out for most people. Zods Heroic would need to constantly hit on the higher end of it's damage to put out more DPS then the LK Xbow plus the stats on the Xbow affect our shots now more. Someone who is Marks with high lvls of Mastery may see Zods do better for them since so much of their damage is based on auto-shots. Yes the Mastery doesn't affect the extra shot from Zods but again most of Marks damage comes from auto-shots and those are still based on weapon damage.
    NO... DPS is DPS.

    Damage per second.

    Assuming 2 bows with same speed, let's say 1.0 speed for argument's sake.
    If I have
    a) bow that range 2-10 dmg : (avg)DPS = 6
    b) bow that range 5-7 dmg : (avg)DPS = 6

    There won't be a dps difference in a fight that last for minutes. (in reality there will be very *minor* difference due to RNG... ... )
    So no, a higher DPS bow need not to constantly hit on the higher end to out DPS a lower DPS bow.

    Please learn what DPS means.

    As for the special shots, probably the slower one going to win? (didnt' follow how the special shots are calculated post 4.0)

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