Idea to bring casuals and hardcores to an understanding *gulp*

[Deleted]

So OP why dont you just go straight for the hardmode/heroic stuff?? Why put another ilvl-tier between normal and hardmodes? I know the difference between heroic-mode gear and normalmode gear when I see it, then I think ok, that fella has more time to put in this game and a bit more successful guild than I do and gz for that. Of course I also think it would be cool to also have heroic gear on my toons too, but RL taking over most of the times so I just dont have that much time to put or other way, my guild just aint that competitive to reach that level of raiding. Im fine with it. Enjoy your boast or stroking your epeen, ill be happy with myself and my achievements in this game. Why does it mean so much to hardcore players that there should be a grandcanyon between them and others??? Tell me.

[mööh]

I don't know what to say to this discussion. I have read every post but am still confused why you people are still fighting. I mean IT'S A GAME! Some people like to put effort in to this game FINE! some people don't FINE. But what i don't think it's fine is that people think that not everyone deserve seeing the high end raid or Last boss of a expansion. I mean you have to have SOME kind of skill to see the last boss in the expansion even on normal. And to people who think it sucks that casuals have the same kind of gear as hardcore players. They don't. If you are "Hardcore" you will have t10 hc gear or some achievement to prove that you are committed to this game. Casuals however will not.

[Ninurta]

So another not thought out post thread. One of the biggest issues in facerolling wotk was gear scaling, now in just one raid you've accomplished the same bad scaling that it took blizz an entire expansion to reach lvl 300-380 in just one raid anyone does this sound familiar lvl 200- 278. yes lets make everything to come out in expansion an utter faceroll off the bat. If anything they would have to scale gear in increments of 5 at most. But making the expansion really easy for content that hasn't even come out yet in the equivalent of naxx.

[Osmeric]

Speak for yourself because I'm also a casual player and I'm totally up for "harder" stuff.

Casual=/=Brain dead. Remember the lesson kids.

I define a "casual" to be a person who will tolerate playing with others who are bad. A non-casual is someone who will move to a guild that excludes bads (and, necessarily, take the steps to ensure they themselves are not excluded.)

Judging by what we're seeing on beta, if you're not in a guild that excludes players from raids who aren't above average, you're not going to progress. This will prevent most players from progressing, let alone finishing all the raid tiers. Family-oriented, RL friend-oriented guilds are getting the shaft.

I have a theory why they're doing this: to nerf pugs and buff guilds (shades of Facebook integration/RealID), and to coerce people back into PvP. Rated BG gear will be much more welfare than PvE gear in Cataclysm, since the only items wit ratings and stat upgrades vs. rating-free gear will be weapons.

If you don't want to play the progression guild drama game, and aren't big on PvP, Cata is not going to be a fun expansion at all.

[Gron]

Casuals however will not.

Casuals are clearing ICC HC modes, maybe not the whole place, but come on... they are getting heroic token drops too.
Pugs are going into HC, and being successful.
Bad players also.

There is no distinction between a good or bad player from the view of what he obtained.

[Tigercat]

Bads will never accept anything other than only 2% of the population being able to get anything better than what they have.

[Lachdanan]

That is because casuals don't normally spend tons of time watching vids of the new encounters and reading strats.

This is one thing that bothers me when people say everything is "too easy". In vanilla there was no videos of encounters and not even "tactics" for everything. Now you are expected to watch and read everything thought ready for you, no need to think at all, just watch the damn video...

This also spoils most of the fun factor in the game as you know everything in advance from the new expansion/raids. I also like to use my own brains and figure things out myself and not always follow some written "tactics" which can be incorrect sometimes. I even proved this a couple of times to our RL by saying this tactic won't make any sense etc but ofc he insisted it was from wowwiki/whatever and it must be right. But in the end common sense won of course.

[Fuzzbutt]

The problem with topics like this is that they conflate several terms.

Hardcore raiders--raiders that spend a ton of time on content
Casual raiders--raiders that spend much less time on content
Successful raiders--raiders that progress through content (usu. before it's nerfed into the ground)
Good raiders--raiders that have some amount of skill and care enough to not be bad
Average raiders--raiders that have spent some amount of time learning their class and basic encounters and can successfully function within a group
Bad raiders--raiders that do not bother to learn how to play and learn from their mistakes

The only thing that's required to not be bad is to learn basic game mechanics for raids and your class. Bosses necessarily take several attempts (unless you have a 30% buff...). No one is perfect and being good does not require perfection. Even the top guilds in the world have wipes!

The problems arise when the bottom 10% of players want to see endgame content, but can't be bothered to put in ANY effort. These players want every fight to be a loot pinata. They want 15 minute heroics. They want 1 night ICC clears. That's not reasonable. The majority of the player base is willing to spend 30 minutes on heroics, so long as they aren't unnecessarily long or have bad mechanics intended solely to waste time. The majority of the player base is willing to work toward content progression.

Many people did not like how Wrath worked. It was dumbed down to the bottom 10%. They were happy, but the content ignored 90% of the player base. Those 10% should not expect content to be dumbed down to their level. They should rise to the level of the average player. If they cannot take the time to do that, maybe they need to stay in 5 mans and not raid.

Many people in BC never got to Black Temple. Many people in BC only ever saw Kara! A small number of people complained, but the average player was okay with progressing to that level of play. They didn't ask for every single encounter to be nerfed to the lowest common denominator.

I'm not saying that I want to return to Vanilla or BC in terms of the time you had to waste on trash. All I'm saying is that I'll be happy to work up to the level of Lich King rather than skip 3 tiers of content, get free tier 10 for doing nothing, having the encounters nerfed into the ground, and then having a progressive buff that activated once every month until players were 30% "better" without actually having to be better.