What PVE raid spec you like to play?

[Chad warden]

R.I.P. affli

[Deleted]

In all honesty, destro has always been the most complex spec to play well. But even when played perfectly (eg timing immo clips with pyroclasm procs etc...) it could hardly live up to aff's numbers - even if the aff player was mediocre at best.

That´s really not true, clipping immolate for making full use of pyroclasm was the only "complex" thing to look out for. I wouldnt even call that hard, it was just inconvenient and I am glad that it is gone. Aside from that destruction was probably among the most simplified specs in the whole game, hot contender with elemental shamans. Even compared to other classes specs it was very easy to play well because the gap between well played and just button mashing was so small and playing it well wasnt hard at all (I raided very intensively with all specs).
It is great to see it finally be more exciting and I will enjoy it for the time being. personal preference for me is being the archetypical dot lock though and hope I will be able to in cataclysm :-)

But even when played perfectly (eg timing immo clips with pyroclasm procs etc...) it could hardly live up to aff's numbers - even if the aff player was mediocre at best

Although I am all for equality between specs I guess Blizzard was ok with it because let us be honest here - a perfectly played destruction lock didnt really need to be a better player than an affliction warlock of medium skill. (slightly exaggerated ofc, a good player is good whatever spec or class he plays but the point is still valid)

[JD7]

Demonology always seemed the most enjoyable and most 'warlock-esque' to me. Just made me sad that it's DPS was always below Affliction and Destruction. So Demonology's my favorite, but I'm Destruction atm cos I like teh crits. xD

[lamente]

I feel like affliction should have the highest potential DPS, always. DoTs, ramped-up damage, and timing your rotation with finesse are all iconic of the warlock class - they are what makes a warlock unique. Destro may as well be "mage spec", and while demo is pretty fun for leveling, it's not something that makes sense to me in a raid setting.

[Maarsch]

I'd have to see how things currently lie.
I've palyed all 3.
I drift between the one with the highest dps and the one most interesting to play.
Both keep switching every other patch or so, but demo and affliction are generally a bit more involved and therefore more interesting to me than destro.

[Seezer]

I'm seeing lots of shadowbolts in paragon's Cata raid vids.They're running 3 affliction locks atm. Jubeto said afflic is doing owning at 85 right now. And this was after the DS nerf.

[Iralien]

Demonology.

Hell, I was Demonology in Molten Core, see no reason to change now that it actually has some interesting tweaks.

[Seezer]

I'd have to see how things currently lie.
I've palyed all 3.
I drift between the one with the highest dps and the one most interesting to play.
Both keep switching every other patch or so, but demo and affliction are generally a bit more involved and therefore more interesting to me than destro.

Actually, Destro is probably the most involved right now. Followed by demo, and afflic is still pretty much the same. Minus having to keep LT up, and rolling crit and your devious minds buff. So it's pretty easy atm.

[Kveldur]

I will probably just follow the dps curve but atm I´m loving destruction atm.
I really miss how affliction was played in the beginning of wrath, where you had to manage about 8 dots or something, that was before the immolate and siphon life changes, will always remember naxx being the cornerstone of affliction playstyle where skillz where indeed needed for hitting the top dps.

[nocturnus]

That´s really not true, clipping immolate for making full use of pyroclasm was the only "complex" thing to look out for.

The quoted makes me wonder if you actually played the spec. Anyway, you don't need to agree, but it's the general consensus. I never said it was hard, heck, there is no such thing as a hard spec to play, but it was MUCH easier to play aff perfectly than it was to play destro perfectly. This comes from someone that player aff through the whole of nax and icc.

To those saying aff should do most damage because dots are the essense of the lock - yea, I don't agree either. But I guess that's very subjective. I associate the use of fires summoned from the pit to evil and not dots.

From what I've seen destro and aff are pretty close on beta. I think destro surpasses aff in the hands of a capable player.

[Bigtimmy]

In general, I prefer the playstyle of affliction, for raiding anyway.

Though I must admit to voting for "whichever has highest dps atm." Reason being, usually the top spec stays that way for a good amount of time. By the time buffs/nerfs come along, I always find it refreshing to have a different perspective. Also, I'm pretty OCD about mix/maxing.

But I consider myself to have roughly equal skill with all the specs (self serving as that may sound, lol). If I had a significant handicap at one of them, I suppose I might not like switching as much.

[nocturnus]

double post - sorry

[Deleted]

Anyway, you don't need to agree, but it's the general consensus. I never said it was hard, heck, there is no such thing as a hard spec to play, but it was MUCH easier to play aff perfectly than it was to play destro perfectly.

Dont wonder, I played the spec a LOT, mostly pvp back when though (playing my lock since vanilla). What I do wonder is what general consensus you are talking about. I have been following warlock related forums like the warlocks den and the like for years now and the consensus on the internetz was always that destruction was lacking in involvement and excitement(I dont give much about that, just saying). I am also very close with most of the top warlocks on my very competetive realm(without wanting to sound like a snob - I am one of them :-) and we were always in agreement about destruction.
I dont want to attack you because you like to play the spec, what matters most in the game is having fun doing what you do and I did enjoy destro for a while too, specs can be fun without being very involving. But saying playing destro perfectly was "not as easy" as the other specs just doesnt sound right, it just doesnt fit with reality. maybe it was "harder"for you because the affliction playstyle suits you more, happens all the time. But saying things like "the general consensus" is just spreading really false information.

Anyway, things have changed for the better and we can enjoy a more challenging spec now. I just wish they would consider changing improved soulfire for the liveservers because this really seems to be the one thing missing from destro right now to really round up the spec. Wont happen though because our damage is through the roof as it is

[harky]

I play whatever results in the highest DPS. That's what PVE is about really. So, I play Destro right now. It's much, much too far ahead of Demo and especially Afflic for me to consider playing as either. ~2k DPS drop as Demo, ~3k as Afflic? No thanks. Going from pushing 20k DPS every fight to struggling to break 17k just isn't worth it. I go Demo for trash now just so I can finally get some rest from mashing SoC.

Afflic just feels bland now. Nothing has changed from pre-4.0.1 really, while Demo and Destro both got big face lifts. Still, if it was on top I'd be Afflic still. It's just not even close and it shows.

[nocturnus]

Dont wonder, I played the spec a LOT, mostly pvp back when though (playing my lock since vanilla). What I do wonder is what general consensus you are talking about. I have been following warlock related forums like the warlocks den and the like for years now and the consensus on the internetz was always that destruction was lacking in involvement and excitement(I dont give much about that, just saying). I am also very close with most of the top warlocks on my very competetive realm(without wanting to sound like a snob - I am one of them :-) and we were always in agreement about destruction.
I dont want to attack you because you like to play the spec, what matters most in the game is having fun doing what you do and I did enjoy destro for a while too, specs can be fun without being very involving. But saying playing destro perfectly was "not as easy" as the other specs just doesnt sound right, it just doesnt fit with reality. maybe it was "harder"for you because the affliction playstyle suits you more, happens all the time. But saying things like "the general consensus" is just spreading really false information.

Anyway, things have changed for the better and we can enjoy a more challenging spec now. I just wish they would consider changing improved soulfire for the liveservers because this really seems to be the one thing missing from destro right now to really round up the spec. Wont happen though because our damage is through the roof as it is

Just to answer your question, the general consensus was based on simcraft parses that had a flawless priority rotatation - one that was very difficult to keep up in real raid circumstances, unlike the fairly easy affliction priority rotation. The simcrafted differences weren't as high as the overal real raid logs. Therefore it was a common assumption that the nature of destro was too tedious to play perfectly. Real raid logs for affliction were pretty close to the flawless simcraft parses. This allows for the safe conclusion to settle in that it's easier to play affliction (almost) perfectly than to play destruction (almost) perfectly.

My personal preference fluctuates. After having played aff (with all the buff rolling) I got bored, but sticked to it because it was the top damage spec. Now destro is the top damage spec, which coincidentally is what I hoped for since I got fed up with aff. On top of that, destro is yet again the most complicated spec. The only difference is that it's the most complicated spec in all scenarios now - whether you play it mediocrely or strive for perfection. Before destro was "easy" to do okay with and "hard" to do good with. Now you don't need to agree with me, nor do you need to understand the logic of my argument, but since you asked I answered. In ICC Affliction was the easy spec to play.

The warlock's den is a terrible website - for reasons too many to mention. Personally, I wouldn't consult that website for acquisition of in depth knowledge. But that's merely an opinion. EJ obviously isn't a bible. But it's a website that is visited by many, MANY, serious theorycrafters. People that try to base every thing they say on fact. You can call it the scientific side of gaming. The quality of discussion is preserved by active moderators which enforce strict rules and principles. Something I miss at websites like the den - which brings down the overal quality of discussion.

[Tokas]

affl for both pve and pvp
yep it feels most warlock-ish
destro feels too mage-ish (imo)

[Qtica]

I sometimes play Demo for the buff, but I have been trying to play Destro as much as possible since the patch. I am enjoying it a lot! I used to play Affliction all the time, but I never raided as Destro before, so it is my time to enjoy it.

[Seezer]

In all honesty, destro has always been the most complex spec to play well. But even when played perfectly (eg timing immo clips with pyroclasm procs etc...) it could hardly live up to aff's numbers - even if the aff player was mediocre at best.

Now, destro made a leap to a very complex spec with loads of timers to monitor, personal buffs to monitor and scale factors that push you towards specific paths each minor upgrade you get. On top of that, it's the spec that provides the highest numbers.

In the end, it's all the same. You press buttons, you monitor timers and you make decisions based on variables. Destro is the obvious choice for me - and I'm happy about it since I don't need to pass on any utility whatsoever to min-max my dps talentwise. Heck, I can even pvp in my current pve spec!

Destro was never close in complexity compared to affliction, and especially Demo. Destro was an extremely easy spec to play well. Affliction and demo were very unforgiving with minor mistakes. And don't forget, destro was king in 3.1 and 3.2.

[Deleted]

Just to answer your question, the general consensus was based on simcraft parses that had a flawless priority rotatation - one that was very difficult to keep up in real raid circumstances, unlike the fairly easy affliction priority rotation. The simcrafted differences weren't as high as the overal real raid logs. Therefore it was a common assumption that the nature of destro was too tedious to play perfectly. Real raid logs for affliction were pretty close to the flawless simcraft parses. This allows for the safe conclusion to settle in that it's easier to play affliction (almost) perfectly than to play destruction (almost) perfectly.

That logic is fundamentally flawed to be honest. If (virtual)-real world conditions do not allow a spec to function as well as calculated by statical number crunching this doesnt really say a lot about the complexity of the spec, it only tells us something about the congruence of the specs mechanics and the reality of the average raid encounter. That is why I am only using simcraft to calculate my relative stat priority when I receive gear upgrades.
Destro relies on nuking a lot more than affliction does where a lot of dps happens even if you have to move or the boss is untargetable for a time, or you might exploit multiple targets, etc. So naturally those simcrafts are closer to the real thing. I am sure on a fight like patchwork destruction wouldnt have a harder time to reach near perfect numbers than affliction or demonology do. It is not really the complexity of the specs but the complexity of encounter design and what it means for specs that rely on certain conditions to function properly.

By that logic all underachieving classes/specs would fall under that rule because to an extent you have to always put in more effort as a player if you are putting yourself into nonideal conditions(like playing an enhancement shaman instead of a fury warrior)- the thing is you actually do have to reach the numbers to make that point valid. And still, as an enhancement shaman, if you do reach the same numbers your best fury warriors get this mostly says a lot about you as a player and not the spec(which is probably why I have not seen that happening outside of pugs where player quality is questionable most of the time)

I mean I am not trying to convince you or anything but I think even though there is a basis in numbers for everything in WoW you cant have cold, hard numbers tell you about the game experience itself. Some things you can only sort of feel when you do them and as the saying goes mileage may vary for different people.
I guess the real problem was that we were talking at cross-purposes. I wasnt talking about the theory behind specs and min maxing the odds of what might happen in the game versus simcrafts and all that but about how much diversion and actual thinking was involved in the specs, how much stuff you have to track etc. to be honest that is what makes specs "hard" for me if you have to keep an eye out on complex encounters like heroic lich king.

The warlock's den is a terrible website - for reasons too many to mention. Personally, I wouldn't consult that website for acquisition of in depth knowledge. But that's merely an opinion. EJ obviously isn't a bible. But it's a website that is visited by many, MANY, serious theorycrafters. People that try to base every thing they say on fact. You can call it the scientific side of gaming. The quality of discussion is preserved by active moderators which enforce strict rules and principles. Something I miss at websites like the den - which brings down the overal quality of discussion.

I am following most ej discussions quite religiously actually, the warlock den doesnt offer the same quality discussion but I was just giving it as an example, after all it is the most popular "warlocks-only" site. I dont think there are many serious raiders who are not at least following their class discussion at ej :-D

And I agree with affliction feeling bland. It was fun before compared to the other specs but now you cant help but feel a little neglected when demo and destro get their shiny new toys while all affliction gets is the same old but with some heartfelt nurfs.

[Deleted]

Affliction for me. (started playing when ulduar came out or there abouts. i think it overall is most iconic in my own mind for a warlock. I would love if demonology used a pet system where you go and "tame" demons from the world to use as perma pets like hunters. That would make that spec more real for me. Destro i do like but i do think too wizardly, (magelike) like the dots and pets are simply holding you back. All are fun.