So hunters got their fix.

[sabrelime]

How long do you think it will be before they finally get around to fixing us and Enhance shamans?

[Cattyrin]

Soon™

[Deleted]

Enhance shamans? Soon. Us? I would think right at the start of t12 raids.

[steale]

Blizzards really had their work cut out for them this past week. Releasing all new talent builds and abilities and stats, etc, while trying to balance abilities at level 80 in a way that they can undo easily at 85. Now, I don't disagree that they could have done a bit more to ensure that the transition went smoothly, as we're their paying customers and not their QA department, but they have a trend of pushing content before it's completely ready and fixing it on the way. Personally, I don't mind the extra few weeks we get to play with the new toys. We've had ICC for almost a year now, and any sweet epics we get from here on out is leveling gear soon to be replaced. Nothing is going to be anywhere near balanced before we're doing catas first tier of raids, so it's nice to at least see the changes to rotations and itemization before then.

[Deleted]

What QA department? I am not convinced there is one. I mean a major thing as a mastery being broken couldnt have been overlooked if there was one. And let me also ask one more thing. Considering the talents belong to Cataclysm how is it that I have to test them when I paid for WoTLK (expansion itself + sub since then)? How is Cataclysm an excuse for ruining combat? Stupid 4.0.1

[loki504]

What QA department? I am not convinced there is one. I mean a major thing as a mastery being broken couldnt have been overlooked if there was one. And let me also ask one more thing. Considering the talents belong to Cataclysm how is it that I have to test them when I paid for WoTLK (expansion itself + sub since then)? How is Cataclysm an excuse for ruining combat? Stupid 4.0.1

know know what a mess the release of 4.0.1 was? it will be the same if not more with 4.0.3. the reason they split up is because other it will all be on the same day/days. you don't want to that happen.

and yes you payed for the exp + sub. but so did 12.000.000 other players. so your just like the rest.
most of the players LOVE IT. so live with it or die with it. its not going change

[steale]

What QA department? I am not convinced there is one. I mean a major thing as a mastery being broken couldnt have been overlooked if there was one. And let me also ask one more thing. Considering the talents belong to Cataclysm how is it that I have to test them when I paid for WoTLK (expansion itself + sub since then)? How is Cataclysm an excuse for ruining combat? Stupid 4.0.1

Your subscription pays for the ability to play whatever Blizzard launches under the title of WoW, for as long as you choose to pay it. The talents belong to WoW, not Cataclysm. In the next expansion, the talents will still be there. Mutilate is a vanilla talent that I made extensive use of in WotLK. You personally have the power to either pay the subscription fee, or tell Blizzard "Hey, fuck you, this shit isn't worth my money, go eat a dick," and never give them another red cent. If at one point in the future, you decide that you DO like the changes they've made and want to come back, Blizzard will never turn down a prodigal son/customer. For as much as people bitch about how the game sucks and is broken, etc, Blizzard still has an awful lot of subscriptions, so it's not THAT bad. Prove your point, cancel your subscription. Tell Blizzard that they aren't worth your hard-earned money. Or sit back and enjoy the game :-)

(I know that was long-winded and probably not entirely on topic, I've just seen a lot of "QQ GAME IS BROKEN RAWR I QUIT WOW FUCK BLIZZ I PLAY A BLOOD ELF RET PALADIN GRRRR" threads in the past week :-D)

[Deleted]

See, that is the difference. I am not QQ-ing about it. And actually, yes, you are right, I am paying for WoTLK so I will give you that the talent part does idd come under current content. However the arguement towards level 85 balance doesnt according to your statement, correct?

As for quitting, I already cancelled my subscription just playing my remaining prepaid time. Its not going to help in any way and Blizzard will obviously not care if 12m becomes 11.999.999 but at least I will be better off burning my money than paying it to NOT enjoy playing a game

[sabrelime]

Your subscription pays for the ability to play whatever Blizzard launches under the title of WoW, for as long as you choose to pay it. The talents belong to WoW, not Cataclysm. In the next expansion, the talents will still be there. Mutilate is a vanilla talent that I made extensive use of in WotLK. You personally have the power to either pay the subscription fee, or tell Blizzard "Hey, fuck you, this shit isn't worth my money, go eat a dick," and never give them another red cent. If at one point in the future, you decide that you DO like the changes they've made and want to come back, Blizzard will never turn down a prodigal son/customer. For as much as people bitch about how the game sucks and is broken, etc, Blizzard still has an awful lot of subscriptions, so it's not THAT bad. Prove your point, cancel your subscription. Tell Blizzard that they aren't worth your hard-earned money. Or sit back and enjoy the game :-)

(I know that was long-winded and probably not entirely on topic, I've just seen a lot of "QQ GAME IS BROKEN RAWR I QUIT WOW FUCK BLIZZ I PLAY A BLOOD ELF RET PALADIN GRRRR" threads in the past week :-D)

A few people leaving the juggernaut blizzard is will not impact them in any significant way, even if it was done in protest blizzard is not going to care. The only problem I had is the fact that now almost every class exculding rogues and En shamans are now fixed, and it seems ridiculous to me that you suggest we should quite the game just because we are unhappy with something that seems stupid to us. I am not flaming I'm just pointing out they have fixed meele dps and now hunters but not us for whatever odd reason after a 1-2 weeks of it being well known there is a major problem.

AND combat is ALSO broken at 85 and has been for a long time now, so what excuse is there for that? Are they just lazy? Or do they not know there is a problem?

[steale]

I think it's perfectly logical for me to suggest that you quit the game if you're unhappy with it, for whatever your reasons are. If the fact that night elves have purple skin infuriates you and makes it impossible to enjoy the game, I'd still suggest quitting it, regardless of how ridiculous I'd find your reasoning. I don't pay your subscription. And a few people leaving Blizzard isn't going to dent their pockets, no, but if it's not your money feeding Bobby Kotick, what do you care? It's not your problem anymore.

Back on topic though, yes, they've fixed everything but Enh and rogue, namely combat. What do you think they're currently doing? My guess would be fixing what's broken. And yes, I've also heard the beta testers say that Combat is broken at 85. It's in beta, it's allowed to be broken. Feral was broken 5 days ago, and last night, I was near the top of the DPS meters. Many of the broken mechanics are fixed already, with a lot more being patched and hotfixed daily. It's been a big week for WoW. It's not every day that you completely overhaul the biggest MMO ever created. Be patient and wait it out, or cancel your subscription for a month or two, wait til all the dust settles, and come back when the world (of warcraft) is right once again.

[Deleted]

i'm taking a 'break' and i'll refresh my subscription as soon as blizzard gets a clue and fixes us. the numbers don't lie; at either 80 OR 85.

[sabrelime]

I think it's perfectly logical for me to suggest that you quit the game if you're unhappy with it, for whatever your reasons are. If the fact that night elves have purple skin infuriates you and makes it impossible to enjoy the game, I'd still suggest quitting it, regardless of how ridiculous I'd find your reasoning. I don't pay your subscription. And a few people leaving Blizzard isn't going to dent their pockets, no, but if it's not your money feeding Bobby Kotick, what do you care? It's not your problem anymore.

Back on topic though, yes, they've fixed everything but Enh and rogue, namely combat. What do you think they're currently doing? My guess would be fixing what's broken. And yes, I've also heard the beta testers say that Combat is broken at 85. It's in beta, it's allowed to be broken. Feral was broken 5 days ago, and last night, I was near the top of the DPS meters. Many of the broken mechanics are fixed already, with a lot more being patched and hotfixed daily. It's been a big week for WoW. It's not every day that you completely overhaul the biggest MMO ever created. Be patient and wait it out, or cancel your subscription for a month or two, wait til all the dust settles, and come back when the world (of warcraft) is right once again.

Why do people insist on this argument that we should just quit something we paid for even though we have enjoyed it in the past and we just want them to fix a minor problem? If we quit and it has no impact then the only reason to quit is to save money, but there is one faceat of this I think you are completely forgetting.

People who want to play the game at a top end level,around 1-150 U.S guilds, can't just up and quit the game. I can't just decide that I want to take a break and expect my raid spot to exist when I get back, SO, while I'm playing the game I expect certain things to be fixed.

My point was that they DID FIX everybody else, and why the hell haven't they fixed combat rogues and enchance shamans? It just doesn't make sense especially when you can just do a number sweep like they already did to every other class. We are NOT asking them to do something particularly difficult, that's why it seems ridiculous to suggest that people who need to participate in guilds to stay in guilds should just up and quit over a problem they have. If I were asking for some kind of ridiculous game mechanics overhaul I would sympathize with you, but basically all I'm asking for is for them to change a couple numbers around on ablities like they already did with almost every other dps class that was screwed by the patch.

Edit- Also why is it ok for things to broken in beta when they have been know to be broken for some time now? They are even aware of it being a problem. If no other class was being fixed I wouldn't care as much, but it just seems like that Blizzard does believe for some reason that rogues are OK when there not.

[phayze]

Sabrelime - I have slowly learned that it is very difficult to debate with people who do not have the same experience/mentality. For some of us, end-game hardcore raiding is what draws us to this game. And for the most part, as you said, you have to be able to perform, because only a small, handful of guilds do that type of content. Said guilds expect certain things from their competent raiding core.

Now of course, you will get accused of being an elitist, a no-lifer, etc. The funny thing is most of the hard core raiders I know spend less time in this game than the more casual-oriented crowd.

But you cannot have a realistic, logical debate when their own point of reference is what they have heard or seen without any first-hand experience.

I'm sure someone is going to bitch and complain about me, saying that I am insulting them. I am not. I think with 12m subscribers, we will find all sorts of playstyles and levels of dedication to the game, to the guild, to pve, to pvp, etc, etc. What you're describing unfortunately for us is a very small subset of the entire WoW population. Just... don't argue with them, and don't defend yourself. Those of us who know, well... we know. Those that don't can continue playing their game the way they've always played it. If they are having fun, then I'm happy for them.

[Sesshou]

Edit- Also why is it ok for things to broken in beta when they have been know to be broken for some time now? They are even aware of it being a problem. If no other class was being fixed I wouldn't care as much, but it just seems like that Blizzard does believe for some reason that rogues are OK when there not.

Yeah, I would feel so much better if blizz would just say something like "we know combat is pathetic right now, and we are looking into a solution." (Actually, it isn't just combat.) They don't even have to fix it yet for me to be happy, but all these posts dedicated to other classes (like the massive one for paladins) and numbers passes for other classes with no comment on rogues bothers me. If blizz didn't have a pre-existing track record for leaving rogues under performing for long periods of time, I would probably have faith that everything would be fixed in a timely manor.

[Cygne]

I'm going to cancel my subscription...WHEN DIABLO III COMES OUT!!!

Yea, take that Blizz!

[steale]

Don't get me wrong, I want rogues to do more damage. I'm not particularly fond of combat personally, so it's broken state doesn't affect me as much, and so long as we have one raiding spec that's competetive, we'll be fine. I do most of my raiding now on my feral and pvp on my rogue. The way I see it though, the expansion is over there is no current content, no big new shiny badass for me to poke, and any gear obtained now is levelling gear, so the fact that rogues aren't topping meters in ICC at level 80 in level 80 gear is meaningless. The ratrace is over for now. When cata hits, I'll nerdrage just as hard as anyone else if recount doesn't have a yellow bar at the top, but it's impossible to know how we'll scale with the new gear, talents, and mechanics, so I've taken a laid back approach. WotLK is finally over.

[phayze]

But Steale - don't you see, it isn't over. This is the time that we take to both learn our classes again with the new mechanics, learn how the new raiding synergy works, and tie up any loose ends. For example, I still want my Light of Dawn title (I have the Bane title but it's not the same thing). I want a shot at rolling a 100 and picking up Invincible. We have 6 more weeks of raiding to do, and frankly, I don't want to just sit around Dalaran and queue up the Horseman daily.

To say "Wrath is over, wait til 85" is a cop-out. Wrath is certainly not over, not until Dec. 7, 2010. Just because *YOU* have accomplished all you want to accomplish doesn't mean the rest of us should be forced to just hold each others' privates until 12/7/10.

Maybe you don't care about the LoD title. Maybe you got it months ago. Some of us are still searching for ours with the group of rejects that happen to be our friends and guildmates.

[Daetur]

Soon: Copyright 2004-2010 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. "Soon" does not imply any particular date, time, decade, century, or millennia in the past, present, and certainly not the future. "Soon" shall make no contract or warranty between Blizzard Entertainment and the end user. "Soon" will arrive some day, Blizzard does guarantee that "soon" will be here before the end of time. Maybe. Do not make plans based on "soon" as Blizzard will not be liable for any misuse, use, or even casual glancing at "soon."

[Deleted]

Not to be rude here or anything but did enha shamans actually ever got their "fix"?

- I didnt play in Vanilla, I hear you sucked in PvE but had some serious WF procs in PvP.
- In TBC I dont really remmember how good you were but we had one of you!
- In Naxx 2.0 you were one of the best DPSers but had serious threat issues. Those got fixed, but...
- Since ULD it went downhill with your dmg almost always being the lowest, HP at mages level too. Blizz never really touched that.

Isnt it time to... you know... Respec?

[Sesshou]

but it's impossible to know how we'll scale with the new gear, talents, and mechanics, so I've taken a laid back approach. WotLK is finally over.

Actually its not impossible. There is beta for that exact reason, and granted they can still fine tune things further since beta isn't over. However, cata launch is fairly close now, and they finalized things enough that they felt comfortable pushing the changes onto live and also that dps was close enough to the final numbers that they could begin to fine tune raid bosses.

Also, WotLK isn't over until cata hits. And I for one think its really stupid (all three times) that blizzard puts out a patch knowing full well it massively changes things and in many cases breaks them for the content available this far in advance. Granted it also kind of annoys me that just because it is an MMO, its perfectly fine for blizz to only give you ~1/3 of the game when you buy it...

Edit: And the reason people are probably upset about this now rather than waiting to see in the first live raid is probably because of WotLK. Blizz didn't fix it for months... its not like WotLK went live, people raided for 2 weeks, and blizz slapped on a hot fix so we were competitive.

Not to be rude here or anything but did enha shamans actually ever got their "fix"?
- In TBC I dont really remmember how good you were but we had one of you!
Isnt it time to... you know... Respec?

Enh was amazing in BC. In fact, guilds were desperate for amazing enh shamans who could twist in GoA without letting WF ever drop off. A skilled enh shaman was far far more of an asset than say a skilled rogue or dps warrior. Anyone who seriously thinks enh shamans were not extremely desirable to have in your raid throughout BC either didn't play BC or is a moron. So yes, they did get "fixed" for BC.