Alternative 3/2/31 ret spec

[laughing]

Just would like to discuss/hear different opinions about the spec i have used in last night's raid.
It is 3/2/31 --- i picked up 2/2 arbiter, 1/3 judge of the pure, reason behind this spec is, my average latency in raid is around 225-280ms, and with my gear setup (pretty much full BiS + SM), even with 1/3 JotP only, i have to reforge some haste into mastery. 2/3 Jotp worth about 210 haste for me roughly, i am not sure how good is haste after hitting soft haste cap at the moment, so its 200 haste (over haste cap) vs 2/2 arbiter or 2/2 seal of the pure. i decided to give it a go during last night's raid, my unbuffed stats look like this: 610 haste(soft haste capped), 37% crits, 13 mastery.

guild log is private, i will just post numbers here:

Lord Marrowgar: 18055.7
DBS: 19471.4
Rotface: 19355.9
Festergut: 20135.2

numbers dont really mean that much, just a rough idea i guess. fights last so short with 30% buff, rng plays a bit part.

so, what's your opinions on this particular spec, is it viable? hows my number compare with similar geared? maybe its viable for people with high latency like me, surely people with under 100 ms, will go with 3/3 Jotp as they will need 800-1000 haste to reach softcap.

[XtreO]

Well... It's obviously 'viable'. Pretending you think it might not be is belittling self-flattery on your part, with that DPS. Whether it's optimal I can't tell you though.

[laughing]

Well... It's obviously 'viable'. Pretending you think it might not be is belittling self-flattery on your part, with that DPS. Whether it's optimal I can't tell you though.

just trying to figure out whether the spec is optimal or not, give up 2/3 judge of the pure is quite a big change considering every theory-craft out there suggest to go with 3/3 JotP. Given my gears, the dps is about where it was pre 4.0.1, with the significant change to ret mechanics, most of us still getting used to the change in raid.

[Timrobbins]

I'm wrong

[laughing]

4.5/1.03/1.05 = 4.1608 ==> / 3.25 = 1.2802 ==> 28.02% from gear

1% Haste is roughly 31.87 Haste Rating, (32.87 x 28.02) = 921.017 ==> 921 Haste Rating Needed

You are sitting at 610 with you current gear and only using 1/3 JoTP and are thus far below the haste soft cap.
.

Please correct me if i am wrong, as far as i have read, you need to calculate latency twice in that formula, as there are 2 GCDs,

so its 4.5/1.03/1.05/(2(1.5+.25)) = 1.1888, 18.8% haste.

[Arianwen]

You're equation is wrong it should be
((4.5(CS CD))/(1 + Haste Effect)/(1 + Haste Effect/(1 + Haste Effect))= X/(3.0 + (2(Latency (Milliseconds)))

Meaning 4.5/1.03/1.05 = 4.1608/3.5 = 1.1888 -> 18.88% x 31.8 = 600.384.

OT: Wouldn't it just be more beneficial to just reforge off the haste and go a 'standard' build? Or do you have to many haste/crit pieces?

I run at 85-100 MS (793 haste) and I was doing 16.2k on standstill fights with far lesser gear than you have. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...l&cn=Sephistia for the reference on gear. To me if you did the latency fix, dropped the mastery back to haste (I was at 220 before the fix) you're DPS would go up significantly.

I'm still waiting on a reply if 4p is worth dropping to 2p as seals/judge aren't as significant anymore.

[Timrobbins]

Hmm I guess I need to go read some more shit, this x2 latency isn't something I was aware of.

[laughing]

OT: Wouldn't it just be more beneficial to just reforge off the haste and go a 'standard' build? Or do you have to many haste/crit pieces?

To me if you did the latency fix, dropped the mastery back to haste (I was at 220 before the fix) you're DPS would go up significantly.

I'm still waiting on a reply if 4p is worth dropping to 2p as seals/judge aren't as significant anymore.

Yes, i have haste and crits on pretty much every piece of gear except bracers and boots and rep ring. so if i go with 3/3 JotP, i will have to reforge haste to mastery or stay on 900-1000 haste unbuffed, which is way over my soft haste cap.

You could be right that my dps will go up if i go with 3/3 JotP, just at the moment, none of us is sure about spec/stats atm, hence the discussion here.

Fights are pretty short these days in icc, RNG can have a pretty big impact on a certain fight. On DBS last night, the other ret in raid, did 50 more dps than me. after checking logs, my censure did way more damage and his TV had 71% crits and my TV crit only 36%. His TV ended up doing 31% of his total dmg, mine was at 14%.

regarding to 4p T10, i am still using 4p+ Festergut gloves, and i don't think there are better off-pieces out there for you to break 4P. It could be a different story though, if you have access to off-piece ilvl 277s but don't have 277 tier pieces yet, eg the helm from BP, Shoulder from Rotface, Leg from Dreamwalker.

[kaskadereno]

Just would like to discuss/hear different opinions about the spec i have used in last night's raid.
It is 3/2/31 --- i picked up 2/2 arbiter, 1/3 judge of the pure, reason behind this spec is, my average latency in raid is around 225-280ms, and with my gear setup (pretty much full BiS + SM), even with 1/3 JotP only, i have to reforge some haste into mastery. 2/3 Jotp worth about 210 haste for me roughly, i am not sure how good is haste after hitting soft haste cap at the moment, so its 200 haste (over haste cap) vs 2/2 arbiter or 2/2 seal of the pure. i decided to give it a go during last night's raid, my unbuffed stats look like this: 610 haste(soft haste capped), 37% crits, 13 mastery.

guild log is private, i will just post numbers here:

Lord Marrowgar: 18055.7
DBS: 19471.4
Rotface: 19355.9
Festergut: 20135.2

numbers dont really mean that much, just a rough idea i guess. fights last so short with 30% buff, rng plays a bit part.

so, what's your opinions on this particular spec, is it viable? hows my number compare with similar geared? maybe its viable for people with high latency like me, surely people with under 100 ms, will go with 3/3 Jotp as they will need 800-1000 haste to reach softcap.

I gotta say, I love where you're going with this thread. Being able to get both Arbiter of Light and Seals of Pure would be great. The talent points in Judgements of the Pure seem like a very "coarse" adjustment to me.....I mean, like, that is alot of haste to lose per point. On the other hand, I have haste on almost all my gear and 1 or 2 talent point change is a simpler fix (IMO) than reforging a bunch of pieces from one stat into another. Glad you brought it up and will definitely take it into consideration. Thanks!

[laughing]

I gotta say, I love where you're going with this thread. Being able to get both Arbiter of Light and Seals of Pure would be great. The talent points in Judgements of the Pure seem like a very "coarse" adjustment to me.....I mean, like, that is alot of haste to lose per point. On the other hand, I have haste on almost all my gear and 1 or 2 talent point change is a simpler fix (IMO) than reforging a bunch of pieces from one stat into another. Glad you brought it up and will definitely take it into consideration. Thanks!

welcome.
Ya i do agree and afraid of that, it's fair bit of haste loss per point. For my latency, one point in JotP is around 100haste, it goes slightly up for players with lower latency. From my quick calculation, for someone with 100ms, with my spec, they will need 985 haste, with standard 3/3 JotP spec, they will need 751 haste, so, it is 117 haste per point in JotP. for someone with 50ms, it about 120.7 haste per point. not a huge different, but something to take note of i guess.

[Ylera]

MMO champ is not the place to be ask for a fine-tuning for your spec.

[Rukus]

MMO champ is not the place to be ask for a fine-tuning for your spec.

Nor is it the place to flame posters who actually post something decent for a change. GTFO

[Requital]

Just would like to discuss/hear different opinions about the spec i have used in last night's raid.
It is 3/2/31 --- i picked up 2/2 arbiter, 1/3 judge of the pure, reason behind this spec is, my average latency in raid is around 225-280ms, and with my gear setup (pretty much full BiS + SM), even with 1/3 JotP only, i have to reforge some haste into mastery. 2/3 Jotp worth about 210 haste for me roughly, i am not sure how good is haste after hitting soft haste cap at the moment, so its 200 haste (over haste cap) vs 2/2 arbiter or 2/2 seal of the pure. i decided to give it a go during last night's raid, my unbuffed stats look like this: 610 haste(soft haste capped), 37% crits, 13 mastery.

guild log is private, i will just post numbers here:

Lord Marrowgar: 18055.7
DBS: 19471.4
Rotface: 19355.9
Festergut: 20135.2

numbers dont really mean that much, just a rough idea i guess. fights last so short with 30% buff, rng plays a bit part.

so, what's your opinions on this particular spec, is it viable? hows my number compare with similar geared? maybe its viable for people with high latency like me, surely people with under 100 ms, will go with 3/3 Jotp as they will need 800-1000 haste to reach softcap.

Very few people are going to try to push the envelope of Ret minmax DPS until cata it's just to unpredictable right now Ret dps is just like throwing dice sometimes you will be lucky and sometimes you won't so it's very very hard to actually determine the worth of the talents. It's not going to be very often you are under such optimal conditions where you can actually test the DPS properly.

Unfortunately it's a rare occasion you are going to get an entire raid to stand next to you while you beat on a dummy and at the same time it's not likely you will ever have 2 raids exactly the same. Something I always hoped Blizzard would do for DPS testing would be put us in a test environment that provided all buffs & debuffs so we could test properly.

@ 85 you will have both talents and honestly it won't matter until then once Blizzard is 100% done with making class changes.

[Deleted]

Fights are pretty short these days in icc, RNG can have a pretty big impact on a certain fight. On DBS last night, the other ret in raid, did 50 more dps than me. after checking logs, my censure did way more damage and his TV had 71% crits and my TV crit only 36%. His TV ended up doing 31% of his total dmg, mine was at 14%.

What you just stated here shows exactly what the 4.0.1 problem is: too short fights, where RNG plays a very big role.

Same with WoL of Iris' Fester DPS that got posted in an earlier thread; 50% TV crit vs 46% CS crit, where in no matter what spec/glyphs CS should have at least 3% more critchance.

[Candlerat]

This interests me. I am running with around the same latency, and after checking off the combat log, can not get a Crusader Strike off anymore than every 3.6-3.7 sec on average, no matter how low I get the cd down to (I reached a cd of 3.22 sec on CS). I have subsequently geared around this, including using this talent spec of 1/3 JotP.

My current dilemma is now I have a significant gap in between each ability if I attempt a CS - filler - CS - filler rotation. So, is it worth playing the pre-patch way of staying GCD locked no matter the cost and possibly use 2 fillers and thus delay Crusader Strike by a small time, or waiting the extra time after each filler in order to hit Crusader Strike as soon as it off cooldown? Can't really determine on the dummies, so any thoughts/opinions welcome.

[Sindy]

Just would like to discuss/hear different opinions about the spec i have used in last night's raid.
It is 3/2/31 --- i picked up 2/2 arbiter, 1/3 judge of the pure, reason behind this spec is, my average latency in raid is around 225-280ms, and with my gear setup (pretty much full BiS + SM), even with 1/3 JotP only, i have to reforge some haste into mastery. 2/3 Jotp worth about 210 haste for me roughly, i am not sure how good is haste after hitting soft haste cap at the moment, so its 200 haste (over haste cap) vs 2/2 arbiter or 2/2 seal of the pure. i decided to give it a go during last night's raid, my unbuffed stats look like this: 610 haste(soft haste capped), 37% crits, 13 mastery.

guild log is private, i will just post numbers here:

Lord Marrowgar: 18055.7
DBS: 19471.4
Rotface: 19355.9
Festergut: 20135.2

numbers dont really mean that much, just a rough idea i guess. fights last so short with 30% buff, rng plays a bit part.

so, what's your opinions on this particular spec, is it viable? hows my number compare with similar geared? maybe its viable for people with high latency like me, surely people with under 100 ms, will go with 3/3 Jotp as they will need 800-1000 haste to reach softcap.

Viability and min/maxing are different. That said, you'd do even more damage with 5/0/31. Truth.

[Karot]

My current dilemma is now I have a significant gap in between each ability if I attempt a CS - filler - CS - filler rotation. So, is it worth playing the pre-patch way of staying GCD locked no matter the cost and possibly use 2 fillers and thus delay Crusader Strike by a small time, or waiting the extra time after each filler in order to hit Crusader Strike as soon as it off cooldown? Can't really determine on the dummies, so any thoughts/opinions welcome.

I was mulling over this as well, and I decided that it's better (for me, anyway...not sure on the "official unofficial" word on which is better) to go with CS -> filler -> CS rotation, altered for procs, obviously. I'd rather be able to hit CS as soon as it's off cooldown so I can get that HP built up. Trying to fit in two fillers just seems to screw up the rotation and the cooldowns on various abilities to where I'd find times that I wouldn't be able to hit anything at all while waiting for CS to come off CD. So I found it to be more fluent to do it the other way.

[Entaaro]

I did some tests as well and found empirically that 5 0 31 was better than 3 2 31. Only by a small amount though... My TV crit chance was strangely low...