Thread: 4.01 Haste Info

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  1. #1

    4.01 Haste Info

    This information is dragged from a couple of threads; there's a lot of discussion on haste atm, so I thought I'd stick it in it's own. A little presumptuous perhaps, but if it's of no use I'll just delete it and ban myself for spam...

    If there's more information that should be in here, or if anything needs correcting, say so.

    Haste Caps:

    With 4.01 haste buffs have changed. Raid buffed you used to be able to expect a 3% buff from Improved Moonkin Form and 5% from Wrath of Air Totem, requiring you to have 1269 haste to reach 50% and cap your gcds. Now Balance Druids, Shaman not using Windfury and (I believe) Shadow Priests can all provide 5% haste, but they don't stack.

    This means that caps for GCD and backdrafted Incinerates are now as follows:

    Code:
                            Normal     With Improved Soul Fire     With Hero/BL/Time Warp
    GCD Cap (50% haste):     1406                795                        325
    Backdraft Incinerate:    1640                997                        505
    Note that ISF and Heroism do not stack.

    DoTs:

    The new DoT mechanics allow your dots to benefit from haste, reducing the time between ticks and adding additional ticks if they fit into the spell's duration. That duration can fluctuate in between d - p/(2(1 + h)) and d + p/(2(1 + h)), where d is the base duration and p is the base interval between ticks. This means that:

    Code:
    n = (d + p/(2(1 + h)))(1 + h)/p = d/p(1 + h) + 1/2
    h = (n - 1/2)p/d - 1 
    
    edit - corrected   
    
    d = duration
    p = interval
    h = haste (as fraction or decimal)
    n = number of ticks (only works if n > than base number of ticks)
    Assuming 5% haste buff these are required haste ratings to gain ticks for various dots. At each point below the spell will be at it's maximum duration, requiring fewer gcds to be spent on refreshes, and drastically increasing the value of haste for that spell. In the case of Demo, this also means you have the most chance of successfully managing to sustain Immolate with HoG. In the case of Destro, extra ticks mean more Immolate damage and hence bigger Conflagrates.

    Code:
    Ticks   GoBoA       BoA      Corr     UA     Immo
    
     +1         0         0       105     157     157
     +2       179       235       625     781     781
     +3       402       495      1146    1406    1406
     +4       625       755      1666    2030    2030
     +5       848      1015      2186
     +6      1071      1276
     +7      1294      1536
     +8      1517      1796
     +9      1740      2056
    +10      1963
    Bane of Doom is unaffected by haste.
    Last edited by ratskinmahoney; 2010-10-30 at 10:53 PM.

  2. #2
    It may just be because it's early so forgive me if this is a ridiculous question but WTF is goboa?

  3. #3
    Glyph of Bane of Agony

  4. #4
    So not a completely ridiculous question then lol, tyvm

  5. #5
    No sir, I don't like it.

  6. #6
    This was what i was looking for..

    I would add some additional calculations like

    Haste: (1+Haste rating / 3279) * 1,05 = Haste in %

    where 3279 is the 32,79 hasterating needed for 1 % haste, and the 1,05 is the 5 % haste buff from priests/shamans..

    The value of the talent dark act:
    "In this example i've used my own haste rating"
    0/3 DA: 2.50 / ( (1 + 1415/3279) * 1.05 ) = 1.66 seconds
    1/3 DA: 2.25 / ( (1 + 1415/3279) * 1.05 ) = 1.49 seconds
    2/3 DA: 2.00 / ( (1 + 1415/3279) * 1.05 ) = 1.33 seconds
    3/3 DA: 1.75 / ( (1 + 1415/3279) * 1.05 ) = 1.16 seconds

    The imps GCD cant currently get under the 1,5 second mark, so i can save 2 talent points according to the calculations..
    My tests have shown that this is correct btw.

    Joê
    Ravencrest EU

  7. #7
    Immolation Aura also benefits from Haste the same way DoTs do. It's not really all that important in terms of gearing, but it might be a DPS increase if you can gain a tick from a tiny bit of Haste. It's especially awesome to know in a fight where there are Haste buffs, or if you're about to get Heroism. Rather than popping Meta + Immolation right off, it's often better to wait a moment so you can get the buff. With Heroism going, my Immolation has a DPCT of over ~100k per target. This means the last 6 seconds you could get for Immolation would have a DPCT of 40k.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by ratskinmahoney View Post

    n = (d + p/(2(1 + h)))(1 + h)/p = d/p(1 + h) + 1/2
    h = (n - 1/2)p/d - 1

    edit - corrected

    d = duration
    p = interval
    h = haste (as fraction or decimal)
    n = number of ticks (only works if n > than base number of ticks
    Thank you for the correction Note also that p/d = 1/t where t is the base number of ticks. This allows further simplification to:
    h = (n - 0.5)/t - 1

    Also, rearranging allows calculation of n for a given h:
    n = Round[t(h+1)] or n = Int[t(h+1) + 0.5]
    Last edited by Bahlshaab; 2010-10-31 at 05:30 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #9
    So to make it clear. you want to be capped out at 1406?

  10. #10
    Dreadlord Cusco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacksuit View Post
    So to make it clear. you want to be capped out at 1406?
    Yes.
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  11. #11
    Hypothetically, (as Destro) if someone (me) couldn't reach 1406 haste rating with current gear but had enough haste for 2 extra ticks of Immolate and 3 extra ticks of Corruption (1184) would it be worth them keeping that haste for general casting speed and that extra Corr tick, or reforge haste away to just over 781 in favor of mastery?

    Any maths out there to support going this low with Haste for Mastery if one couldn't get that 3rd extra Immolate tick? I'll test it out later, but wondered if anyone else had tried something similar and wanted to share their experience.

    Thanks in advance for considered responses.
    "There are millions of players that would happily trade with you since *any* quest at all is infinitely more interesting than watching a queue of thousands count down slowly..." - Vaell /// "Hyperbole and all...."millions"? Really?" - Det /// "WoW back up to 10 million subscribers!" - Blizzard

  12. #12
    so how does this work w/ Dark Arts, is the investment in gloom and doom worth it due to reaching haste cap or better invested in imp corr?

  13. #13

    help please

    Hi there guys. I am feeling a little overwhelmed with some of these calculations.

    Is there any way that you can show me some example with some numbers. Right now my lock is sitting at 1678 haste.

    Also, should I stop stacking haste at any point? What calculation should I use to figure out how much more haste I need for my next tick on my dots?

  14. #14
    So for Demonology, do the stat weights change after 1406 haste rating? I haven't been able to find a definite answer that after 1406 Demo should stop stacking haste, and go back to Intellect.

    Are the EJ stat weights of:

    Sta=0.0167 Int=3.8362 SP=2.5270 Hit=4.7846 Crit=2.6957 Haste=2.5169 Mastery=2.4201

    Assumed to be after 1406 haste?

  15. #15
    Any stat weights will constantly change with any stat changes. Your stat weights are not the same as EJ's stat weights unless you have the excact same gear, buffs and raid debuffs as EJ's demonology profile. Stat weights are personal which means they are dependant on your own gear.

    Since you seem too lazy to count it yourself I did it for you and I counted 1413 haste on EJ's demonology warlock.

    As for haste, unless you can reach the next tick of immolate (2030 haste), being at or slightly above 1406 haste will be most beneficial as that will give you the longest Immolate duration, thus easing up your rotation for refreshing immolate with Hand of Gul'dan.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by stephano View Post
    Hi there guys. I am feeling a little overwhelmed with some of these calculations.

    Is there any way that you can show me some example with some numbers. Right now my lock is sitting at 1678 haste.

    Also, should I stop stacking haste at any point? What calculation should I use to figure out how much more haste I need for my next tick on my dots?
    Basically you get an extra tick of immolate at 10, 30, 50, 70% etc

    1678 = 51.15~ haste so you automatically get the 8th tick
    1.51 * 1.05 (haste buff) = 1.5855 (58.55% haste)
    1.5855 * 1.15 (soul fire) = 1.823325 (82.33% haste)...therefore if you cast soulfire before immolate (above 80%) you will get the 9th tick also).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakpoth View Post
    As for haste, unless you can reach the next tick of immolate (2030 haste), being at or slightly above 1406 haste will be most beneficial as that will give you the longest Immolate duration, thus easing up your rotation for refreshing immolate with Hand of Gul'dan.
    What do you mean? It won't give the longest duration...just the most ticks in the same duration.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Straknos View Post
    What do you mean? It won't give the longest duration...just the most ticks in the same duration.
    I mean that at the threshold of 10, 30, 50, 70% haste you will have Immolate last it's entire 15 second duration. If you were at 1% below any of those the duration would be somewhat shorter. Thus at the threshold the duration will be longer.

  18. #18
    Does haste for DoTs behave differently than it does for other spells? Cause unless it does, I would think that the number of tics in a DoT would formulate as:

    n = d/(p/(1+h))

    Don't know why it would be that long formula listed above... considering the formula for "casting time" is: casttime/(1+haste%)
    so I would figure that tic time would be: tictime/(1+haste%) or p/(1+h) if you use your variables

    once you know how long it is between tics, wouldn't it then be duration/tictime or d/(p/(1+h))

    I tried to reverse engineer your formula's and they just don't really make sense to me unless DoTs behave completely unlike cast times.

    Edit: Nevermind, reread and noticed that you said durations can fluctuate, that's really annoying and makes math more gay... I mean it works to our benefit it seems (otherwise you'd only get 7.5 round down, so 7 tics with 1406 haste, not 8), but still a pain in the butt for theorycrafting.

    Also managed to reverse engineer it now that I figured that part out... go go gadget algebra.
    Last edited by Delia; 2010-11-03 at 11:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Legendary! gherkin's Avatar
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    Yes, it behaves differently. Sometimes it extends the duration, sometimes it shortens it. Depends when you clip, if you clip, and how much haste you have.

    I tried to reverse engineer and ended up failing. It is now a dps increase to have your dot refresh land between the last and the second last ticks of dot.

    Basically, apply your math to figure out number of ticks in a single cast, but then if you clip it at this last point add the remaining time to the newly calculated duration to get a new debuff with an extra tick attached.

    That duration can fluctuate in between d - p/(2(1 + h)) and d + p/(2(1 + h)), where d is the base duration and p is the base interval between ticks.
    This is the key here. You can have as low as (Duration - almost one tick) or (duration + almost one tick).
    Last edited by gherkin; 2010-11-03 at 09:48 PM.

    R.I.P. YARG

  20. #20
    Can someone quickly rework numbers for Immo with Improved Soul Fire as that buff is now more or less permanent.

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