Resto Druid Guide - 4.0.1 edition

[Dendrek]

daydayhyphy, that's completely false. That couldn't be further from the truth.

---------- Post added 2010-10-25 at 06:06 AM ----------

And fews, thanks for the input.

[Myrrar]

text

That only really works in 10, as said by a few people. Mastery in 10 is good, 25 is where it's lacking. With RJs time taken down, you still want to be pushing as many rjs out as possible. Though mastery will effect a few things like WG, sm, blah blah, most of your healing still comes from RJ. Even with me trying to roll LB on the tanks and rj/wg/sming, rj is still the highest part of my healing by a large amount.
Trying to get haste cap, have ok crit, and balance mastery wont really happen. For those of us who aren't getting haste capped since we just really don't need it, we can replace some stats with mastery, but you will still probably get more healing from the rj tick then mastery.

In 25s, mastery is an ok stat, but really not needed. In 10s, as said before, it's a lot better since haste is less important, and direct healing is far more important.

[Dendrek]

In the latest update to this guide, I corrected various inaccuracies regarding haste rating thresholds (values of haste needed to increase the number of ticks of a hot by one).

WARNING: "mathy" explanation below.

The values currently in this guide are over-estimations, and are intentionally so. The way I calculated the values is by reversing the percentage requirements for each threshold and finding the applicable rating requirement, then rounding that rating requirement up and adding one to its value.

It is apparently possible for issues to occur in-game where players at an exact haste rating threshold do not see an extra tick from their hot (even with the 5% haste raid buff). If this glitch is changed in the future, I'll readjust the values in this guide.

---------- Post added 2010-10-25 at 09:13 AM ----------

Also, I only display haste thresholds in this guide which are up to 37.5% (1016 rating with a 5% raid haste buff). Although all hots have thresholds past that value of haste, it seems unrealistic that any druid would obtain enough haste to meet those thresholds. I figured 37.5% was the appropriate amount of haste to stop at.

[Kitanii]

To check out the differences between mastery and crit I raided with mastery reforged gear last ID and this ID I used crit reforged gear. I noticed that the crit-way wouldn't work for me as well as the mastery-way did. One examlpe I find pretty interesting is Blood Queen (25hc). With almost same raidsetup I droppt from 18k hps to 15k hps while beeing in critgear. I dont quit get why this is the case since its almost really just rejuv for me and WG+SM in meelecamp. Through, I reforged to mastery again since it seems more appealing to me.


I have some major understanding questions regarding the combination of haste and the talent swift rejuv. At one point I read somewhere that you either need the 1016 haste to get an extra tick OR the swift rejuv talent. So this is not the case?

One more thing to ask about gear. I use Trauma so the hastecap is a little harder to get. Regarding the chest- and bootslots: I have both the 264 hastepieces and the 277 critpieces. Through, if I use the critpieces I can't reach the 1016 cap. Which stinks. My question: Is it worth using the 277 pieces and gemming for haste to reach the cap (maybe also using bufffood) or should I just stick with the 264 hastepieces? And yet, I am right that Trauma HC would still be the BiS, right?

[Cerelli]

I have some major understanding questions regarding the combination of haste and the talent swift rejuv. At one point I read somewhere that you either need the 1016 haste to get an extra tick OR the swift rejuv talent. So this is not the case?

you need swift rejuvenation to have a 1.00 second global cooldown since it is practically impossible to reach the 1 second global cooldown cap without it. you need 1016 haste rating in order to have an added tick on your rejuv.

[Oyra]

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...n=Oyra&group=2
This is my spec. Why does everyone go for Nature's Curse?
It's overrated at lvl 80, simply because in 25 man raids there are way more magic dispellers than you are.

[Dendrek]

To check out the differences between mastery and crit I raided with mastery reforged gear last ID and this ID I used crit reforged gear. I noticed that the crit-way wouldn't work for me as well as the mastery-way did. One examlpe I find pretty interesting is Blood Queen (25hc). With almost same raidsetup I droppt from 18k hps to 15k hps while beeing in critgear. I dont quit get why this is the case since its almost really just rejuv for me and WG+SM in meelecamp. Through, I reforged to mastery again since it seems more appealing to me.

Keep in mind that the performance of your other healers will affect that result. You'll need to do more than 1 test each if you want more consistent results. However, I suspect a big component to the difference you saw may be the WG+SM in melee, which should benefit from Symbiosis often, I believe. If you have a raid log I can look at for those two weeks, I can provide a better answer.

If you're not comfortable posting your logs on this site, feel free to PM them to me.

One more thing to ask about gear. I use Trauma so the hastecap is a little harder to get. Regarding the chest- and bootslots: I have both the 264 hastepieces and the 277 critpieces. Through, if I use the critpieces I can't reach the 1016 cap. Which stinks. My question: Is it worth using the 277 pieces and gemming for haste to reach the cap (maybe also using bufffood) or should I just stick with the 264 hastepieces? And yet, I am right that Trauma HC would still be the BiS, right?

This is a difficult topic because there's a lot of debate going either way. Keep in mind that what you're attempting to do is balance 3 things to find the best results:

• Maximizing Int
• Maintaining the haste cap
• Keeping Trauma

All three provide a significant boost to hps. So in effect, what you're asking is, "Which of those three is better to sacrifice in order to keep the other two?" (Some people throw the t10 4 piece set into that balancing act as well, which really complicates the discussion.)

The best I can do is provide rough estimates for how valuable each effect is:

• Trauma is probably worth 3-5% of your overall healing.
• The haste cap is probably worth 10-16% of your overall healing (assuming Rejuv makes up 50-80% percent of your overall healing). (This is based on rough paper-napkin math, so your individual results may vary.) Also, overhealing from Rejuv, which is more likely to happen with that extra tick, will reduce this percentage.
• Each point of Int is roughtly worth about 3.5 hps (according to treecalcs, a spreadsheet for resto druids written by Hamlet on EJ), which (very roughly) is worth about 0.02% of overall healing. So, to find the value of the amount of int you have to sacrifice for the haste cap: use the formula (Int)*(0.02).

For example, 50 Int is worth roughly 1% of your overall healing. 150 Int is worth roughly 3%. The larger the amount of Int you lose, the less accurate these estimates are likely to be. Also note: I may be oversimplifying the value of Int in these estimates.

As for whether you should use the 264 piece or the 277 (I assume you're reforging the Spirit on the 277 into haste), it's going to take a bit of testing and comparison to figure out which is better. It's a good question and I'd like to provide an answer, but I'm kind of lazy right now. Sorry

---------- Post added 2010-10-25 at 05:36 PM ----------

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-ta...n=Oyra&group=2
This is my spec. Why does everyone go for Nature's Curse?
It's overrated at lvl 80, simply because in 25 man raids there are way more magic dispellers than you are.

Most take it because it's a good practice to maximize your utility in a raid. Granted, in many cases it's not required that you take it (unless your raid leader requires it - which, realistically, most probably would). But many see the option of taking it vs not taking it to be the difference between maximizing your usefulness to the raid vs doing the bare minimum.

I'll consider adding your spec. But I don't agree that Nature's Cure is useless.

[seany69er]

I have a query, will spirit give that much mana regen? Will moonkin set gear still come with some spirit, as they currently do now?
Currently I've been raid healing in moonkin gear quite easily, with no major mana loss.

Dude, don't forget that spirit gives you hit, so all you need is enough spirit to put you at the hit cap and then that stat will be your weakest stat.

[fews]

In 25s, mastery is an ok stat, but really not needed. In 10s, as said before, it's a lot better since haste is less important, and direct healing is far more important.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense - since the new super dumb lockout system I've only done 10s; but in that case, ya, I still stand behind mastery > hastecap (especially with a two healer setup)

[kooz]

To check out the differences between mastery and crit I raided with mastery reforged gear last ID and this ID I used crit reforged gear. I noticed that the crit-way wouldn't work for me as well as the mastery-way did. One examlpe I find pretty interesting is Blood Queen (25hc). With almost same raidsetup I droppt from 18k hps to 15k hps while beeing in critgear. I dont quit get why this is the case since its almost really just rejuv for me and WG+SM in meelecamp. Through, I reforged to mastery again since it seems more appealing to me.


I have some major understanding questions regarding the combination of haste and the talent swift rejuv. At one point I read somewhere that you either need the 1016 haste to get an extra tick OR the swift rejuv talent. So this is not the case?

One more thing to ask about gear. I use Trauma so the hastecap is a little harder to get. Regarding the chest- and bootslots: I have both the 264 hastepieces and the 277 critpieces. Through, if I use the critpieces I can't reach the 1016 cap. Which stinks. My question: Is it worth using the 277 pieces and gemming for haste to reach the cap (maybe also using bufffood) or should I just stick with the 264 hastepieces? And yet, I am right that Trauma HC would still be the BiS, right?

277 pieces carry more Int than 264 ones, so you probably won't lose much if any Int if you switch from 264 to 277 and gem them haste. Also there's some great 277 leather haste pieces (shoulders and gloves) that might help reach the haste cap and they are normally easier to get than heroic tokens.

[GorillaSD]

Great job, please sticky and thank you!

[Myrrar]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense - since the new super dumb lockout system I've only done 10s; but in that case, ya, I still stand behind mastery > hastecap (especially with a two healer setup)

I know, I'm not feeling this lock out system at all >_>

But yeah, for 10s I'd probably just stay at old cap, get a good amount of crit, and get to mastery "cap". Though, I've been so busy I haven't got to look for "soft cap" numbers for either.

[Dendrek]

For the stat priorities I've mentioned in this guide, I'm considering changing that to show separate priorities for 10 and for 25.

My inclination is to think that for:
25: Haste cap (1016) > Int > Haste (below cap) > Crit >= Mastery >> Spirit
10: Haste cap (1016) > Int > Mastery > Haste (below cap) >= Crit >> Spirit

I know some will argue that the haste cap isn't as important in 10 man, but I strongly suspect it's still very good even in 10s. I am pretty sure though that Mastery is a much better stat in 10s than in 25s. Though that is intuitively obvious, I don't have numbers to support that argument.

Likewise, I'm sure Haste below cap is at least as good as crit (if not better) in 10 mans because every one of our spells scales very well with haste (our direct heals and our hots).

I'm not going to make this change to the guide just yet, but I wondered if I could get feedback on this proposal.

[Edit] Keep in mind regarding the haste cap:
It's not just a good number to obtain for Rejuv. WG and LB both have thresholds near that number (961 for WG, 938 for LB), so by going for the haste cap, you're greatly improving 3 of your hots. All three are very useful in 10 and 25.

[Edit 2] I'm not sure if for 10 man I think Haste cap > Int or if Int > Haste cap. I'm sure both are very close, and pretty sure that Haste cap is > Mastery... I hate being indecisive.

[Khraeme]

I got a question in regards to haste vs mastery. Currently i have 4/5 t10 (no sanc), 906 haste, and have 2 haste "trinkets", Scale of Fates (ulduar 25, yes i no, lame) and the LifeBlood from herbalism (so nice). I dont have mastery due to the fact I didnt seem myself using mourish, HT, RG all that often. After reading some posts here, I feel I can prob get away with spaming RG when i need pick-me-up heals with Rejuvs, without goin oom. At the moment I have 1044 spirit and 2/3 furor, sittng at 41k mana selfbuffed, so mana isnt much an issue. I was wondering what a good number is to be at for spirit, where i can reforge for mastery, and still be okay on mana regen. Also for crit, I never was a big fan of crit, like taking Nature's Majesty, and the crit enchants (head/shoulder), 24.5% crit for me now. If I were to reforge my haste to about 800, and my spirit to a little less, maybe 900 or so, and reforge those stats to mastery, would I be better off for 10 man HMS? And does anyone know the mastery cap, I know for my DK tank, 400 or so mastery is little over 100% of the effect, but it starts pretty high. Thanks, Khraeme

[Myrrar]

For the stat priorities I've mentioned in this guide, I'm considering changing that to show separate priorities for 10 and for 25.

My inclination is to think that for:
25: Haste cap (1016) > Int > Haste (below cap) > Crit >= Mastery >> Spirit
10: Haste cap (1016) > Int > Mastery > Haste (below cap) >= Crit >> Spirit

I know some will argue that the haste cap isn't as important in 10 man, but I strongly suspect it's still very good even in 10s. I am pretty sure though that Mastery is a much better stat in 10s than in 25s. Though that is intuitively obvious, I don't have numbers to support that argument.

Likewise, I'm sure Haste below cap is at least as good as crit (if not better) in 10 mans because every one of our spells scales very well with haste (our direct heals and our hots).

I'm not going to make this change to the guide just yet, but I wondered if I could get feedback on this proposal.

[Edit] Keep in mind regarding the haste cap:
It's not just a good number to obtain for Rejuv. WG and LB both have thresholds near that number (961 for WG, 938 for LB), so by going for the haste cap, you're greatly improving 3 of your hots. All three are very useful in 10 and 25.

[Edit 2] I'm not sure if for 10 man I think Haste cap > Int or if Int > Haste cap. I'm sure both are very close, and pretty sure that Haste cap is > Mastery... I hate being indecisive.

If you are trying to maximize your healing output, I'd agree haste cap is still probably top priority. But, if you are just talking about regular druids in 251-264 gear, you don't need to be at cap for either. In those situations, getting cap will be more a pain then it's worth. I'm not sure which side you want to go with your guide. It really depends on what stats overall you have, how much crit is making up your ticks, the fight, your other healers, just so many things. It's complicated anyway you look at it. For crit, it really just depends on how it scales on direct healing and hots vs faster cast time more ticks. Seems from ej a lot of the old druid theorycrafters aren't really interested in figuring it all out. =/

In the end, there probably isn't going to be one best way to go. If you are far below haste cap where you have to drop most of your crit, mastery if you are using it, along with int, it may end up evening out. I may start playing around with it starting this week in our raids. But even then, my numbers will be messy since "most" people reading this aren't in HMs and we have a lot of alts raiding right now.

It's hard for me to choose one or the other as better just because to me, progression ended a very long time ago. I have no longing to get capped since I destroy every fight without it. If it was the end of Uld, or anything outside of ICC I probably would have still min/maxed her though.

[Dendrek]

Khraeme,

I'm fairly confident the last thing you should be doing is reforging haste into mastery. You can and should reforge all of your spirit (on pieces of gear that have both spirit and haste) into mastery. For pieces of gear that have no haste, consider reforging the spirit into haste if it will get you closer to the haste cap, but if you prefer, you can turn all of your spirit into mastery and ignore the haste cap.

I will say that if you're not willing to get to the 1016 haste cap, then at least try for the 961 threshold that gives Wild Growth and Lifebloom an extra tick, especially considering how close you are to that number.

As for the mastery cap, I don't know what it is for druids right now, sorry.

---------- Post added 2010-10-26 at 05:48 AM ----------

And Myrrar, I know min-maxing isn't required for current content, but I also know that most players who would bother reading a guide like this are interested in doing things "right," which usually means going for the best possible setup that they can.

I'm sure I could simplify this guide with a simple "Do this and you'll be good enough," approach. But it's not in my nature to do that. I'm a min-maxer, even when it's overkill. So I'm going to try to provide the best possible information I can.

[Deleted]

Nice guide, I vote for sticky!!!


A little spelling error I think (just found it, feel free to rage at me since I also hate when ppl point out my spellings ).

Shoulders: Greater Inscription of the Storm (24 Spell Power & 15, rep item) requires: Sons of Hodir (exalted)

I guess you mean crit, right?

[Dendrek]

Of course I don't mean crit. ", rep item" is a stat, last I checked!



On an unrelated note: fix'd.

[Edit] P.S. I encourage people to point out my errors. I don't take offense to that. Thanks for the catch!

[Deleted]

Nice guide!

But i'd like to know why Master shapeshifter is an important talent for resto? I mean, 4% extra healing every 3minutes for 3 talent points? What?

[Deleted]

Nice guide!

But i'd like to know why Master shapeshifter is an important talent for resto? I mean, 4% extra healing every 3minutes for 3 talent points? What?

You have 4% extra healing at ALL times. The talent says "Tree of Life/Caster Form - Increases Healing by 4%."