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  1. #1

    Disc as a single target healing spec

    I read a long time ago (can't find the quote) something on the lines of;
    'Priests are the Premier healing class in World of Warcraft, this means they have two unique healing trees. Disc focuses on Single Target healing and mitigation, Holy focuses on Raid healing'

    During Wrath Disc was seen as either a PVP spec or a raid bubble spec. Blizzard didn't want disc priests to just spend their entire raid popping pw:shield throughout the whole raid, unfortunately it proved to be overly effective for this, so they have changed the disc spec in Cataclysm to limit pw:shield's usefulness.. we can't just spam it anymore

    Now, it seems to me that in the composite of a 25 man raid you generally take 5 healers, there are 4 healing classes.. but 5 healing specs in WoW.

    Why not let Disc priests sit on par with Paladins for single target healing, and Holy, shamans and druids fill up the raid healing roles?!

    Currently Disc has talents which mean I have to either take evangelism.. don't get me wrong .. its a cool talent, or throw away a talent point somewhere to avoid it.

    But seriously.. past heroics.. who honestly dps's and heals at the same time.. who even wants to do that?!

    I'm a pure healer who wants Disc to be as strong as holy for once. There is no reason this can't be done.

    Thoughts?!

  2. #2
    High Overlord Blaze611's Avatar
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    That was a long time ago.
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  3. #3
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    I got a Hpaladin, having disc healers as powerfull when it comes to singeltarget is just Bshit! since that means paladin healers would be totally useless compared to priests.... and I say /NO! /shoo!

  4. #4
    Blademaster Awesra's Avatar
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    Blizzard has moved away from the idea of overly specialized healing trees. Although Holy Paladins might be slightly better single target healers, they have been given the tools to AoE heal to some extent, as many of the other trees have been rounded out. As Blaze said, those quotations and ideas are quite dated.

    On a side note, Evangelism, besides being a fun talent, is also designed as a mana return for times when you are able to do some dps. Mana is supposed to be a much more limited resource come Cataclysm raiding, and you should welcome the opportunity to gain some mana while smiting away.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze611 View Post
    That was a long time ago.
    Well.. I rolled a priest a long time ago.. for that reason.

  6. #6
    I can quite easily make a talent build I'm happy without taking Evangelism.
    Paladin's have also been doing ridiculous amounts of AOE healing at 85 at the moment to the point where it has been toned down. I wouldn't rush to pigeon hole people in to Tank and Raid roles just yet.
    >:7

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Polargrisen View Post
    I got a Hpaladin, having disc healers as powerfull when it comes to singeltarget is just Bshit! since that means paladin healers would be totally useless compared to priests.... and I say /NO! /shoo!
    It doesn't render Paladins useless.. it would mean you wouldn't have to take two paladins for healing.. this is surely an improvement for you.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-26 at 05:18 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Awesra View Post
    Blizzard has moved away from the idea of overly specialized healing trees. Although Holy Paladins might be slightly better single target healers, they have been given the tools to AoE heal to some extent, as many of the other trees have been rounded out. As Blaze said, those quotations and ideas are quite dated.

    On a side note, Evangelism, besides being a fun talent, is also designed as a mana return for times when you are able to do some dps. Mana is supposed to be a much more limited resource come Cataclysm raiding, and you should welcome the opportunity to gain some mana while smiting away.
    Yeah.. I understand the reasons for not wanting specialized healing trees.. however I think it wouldn't hurt either. solo healing .. or 10 man raid healing has a different feel.. you work ways around it.

    I know the mana re-gen is very useful.. I just wish it didn't have to come from dpsing. I want the healing side of things to be challenging enough that I'm not trying to dps. I hope that's not going to happen raiding time.. I think it means the end of Disc for PvE.. it will be more like frost tanking was in wrath. fun.. but looked down upon.
    Last edited by Eroldus; 2010-10-26 at 04:20 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroldus View Post

    But seriously.. past heroics.. who honestly dps's and heals at the same time.. who even wants to do that?!
    Any fight where I didnt have to heal fully all the time, I would start the smiting. And there's plenty of these fights. (Algalon, Anub at totgc, saurfang, and many other fights where you can easily squeeze in 30-60 seconds of DPSing), with several talents that favors your DPSing makes it even more viable at times. There's nothing more dull than healing with 95% overhealing, because there's to many healers.

  9. #9
    Epic! Illunis's Avatar
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    i agree to an extent, disc could be a bit better at single target healing, and i also agree with evangalism, its an awesome talent, but i dont see myself dpsing in a raid, situational yes itd be useful, but not for every encounter.

    back on topic -- if you put disc on par with paladin healing single target, you either sacrifice discs utility and homogenize them to a simliar playstyle/role as holy pallys, or they become a paladin + disc priest utility and then paladins become obsolete from a pve prospective

    - my 2c, enjoy

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by aZies View Post
    Any fight where I didnt have to heal fully all the time, I would start the smiting. And there's plenty of these fights. (Algalon, Anub at totgc, saurfang, and many other fights where you can easily squeeze in 30-60 seconds of DPSing), with several talents that favors your DPSing makes it even more viable at times. There's nothing more dull than healing with 95% overhealing, because there's to many healers.
    I do agree with you to some extent with this. And their are times when it is useful. I had to learn in the long run to stop overhealing.. and trust druids to get there in their own time... etc.

  11. #11
    at 85 the disc smie spec will be realy good i feel.

    The damage the smite does is slightly higher than the amount heal/hoyl light heals for, Now while it might be a ltlee rng who its going to hit, you an be daefly assured that one heal that doesnt heal teh tank wont be to bad, as the healthpools allow him to take 1 or 2 hits without a heal before dieing.

    i watched the paragon cho'gall vid and there shaman literally only healed when there was mass AoE damage and the rest of the time he was dpsing.
    I can see disc being similar to this, you only switch out of smite dpsing to chuck a shield on someone, or maybe to pop barrier or pain suppression on the tank, or if needs me a nicely hasted greater heal to pop his hp back up. evangelism basicaly guarentee's ooming will be hard if your mostly smiting.

    For example, you could have a druid keeping lifebloom roling on the tank with a rejuve aswel, Smite heals going off every 2 seconds or less, to pop his hp back up. and maybe have the holy paladin beacon the tank and he can spot heal the ranged which your smite heals wont be reaching.

    Sounds like a pretty decent setup to me, all 3 healers are helping on tanks, while 1 dps's as 3 healers is pretty overkill on all 10man content. (yes its meant to be easier than 25 at 80)

    That kind of setup would allow you to have 5 and a half dps while having 2 and a half healers constantly and 3 healers for when there periods of large damage than where 3 is needed.

    ps. yes i realsed i'm talking about a 10man environment but it could easily be put up into 25man with a few adjustments.

    As far as pure healers go, i think those days are near over. the closest you may get might be a resto druid.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Illunis View Post
    i agree to an extent, disc could be a bit better at single target healing, and i also agree with evangalism, its an awesome talent, but i dont see myself dpsing in a raid, situational yes itd be useful, but not for every encounter.

    back on topic -- if you put disc on par with paladin healing single target, you either sacrifice discs utility and homogenize them to a simliar playstyle/role as holy pallys, or they become a paladin + disc priest utility and then paladins become obsolete from a pve prospective

    - my 2c, enjoy
    :-)

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-26 at 05:24 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tortillagirl View Post
    at 85 the disc smie spec will be realy good i feel.

    The damage the smite does is slightly higher than the amount heal/hoyl light heals for, Now while it might be a ltlee rng who its going to hit, you an be daefly assured that one heal that doesnt heal teh tank wont be to bad, as the healthpools allow him to take 1 or 2 hits without a heal before dieing.

    i watched the paragon cho'gall vid and there shaman literally only healed when there was mass AoE damage and the rest of the time he was dpsing.
    I can see disc being similar to this, you only switch out of smite dpsing to chuck a shield on someone, or maybe to pop barrier or pain suppression on the tank, or if needs me a nicely hasted greater heal to pop his hp back up. evangelism basicaly guarentee's ooming will be hard if your mostly smiting.

    For example, you could have a druid keeping lifebloom roling on the tank with a rejuve aswel, Smite heals going off every 2 seconds or less, to pop his hp back up. and maybe have the holy paladin beacon the tank and he can spot heal the ranged which your smite heals wont be reaching.

    Sounds like a pretty decent setup to me, all 3 healers are helping on tanks, while 1 dps's as 3 healers is pretty overkill on all 10man content. (yes its meant to be easier than 25 at 80)

    That kind of setup would allow you to have 5 and a half dps while having 2 and a half healers constantly and 3 healers for when there periods of large damage than where 3 is needed.

    ps. yes i realsed i'm talking about a 10man environment but it could easily be put up into 25man with a few adjustments.

    As far as pure healers go, i think those days are near over. the closest you may get might be a resto druid.
    Well, I was talking about 25 man's.. because I think in the end 10 man's very rarely need more than 2 healers. Plus.. now that duel-spec is only 100 gold it should be pretty much mandatory

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by aZies View Post
    Any fight where I didnt have to heal fully all the time, I would start the smiting. And there's plenty of these fights. (Algalon, Anub at totgc, saurfang, and many other fights where you can easily squeeze in 30-60 seconds of DPSing), with several talents that favors your DPSing makes it even more viable at times. There's nothing more dull than healing with 95% overhealing, because there's to many healers.
    Were there times when there was a null period when the encounter actually first came out? Going back to do Algalon or Anub or Saurfang when you already have much better gear than required doesn't give us a clear picture. The better question would be can you have 30-60 seconds to DPS when you have to heal Heroic LK 25 or Heroic Halion? If the answer is no, then how can you imagine yourself using Smite against a raid encounter that was just released without burdening another healer? Someone has already raised the question that Atonement heals no better than a Shadow Priest's healing and our DPS as Smite is abysmal as well. If the healers are sufficient, then you might as well bring an extra mage or warlock who can triple the damage of Smite and if the healers are insufficient, then you might as well bring a full fledged healer that can heal.

    Evangelism and Archangel is meant to be a mana regeneration mechanic, however it would require the priest to have over 91000 mana for Archangel to give back the amount of mana spent to Smite 5 times. So basically Blizzard is saying to the Discipline Priest that you will pay less mana for a less effective heal for a boost to your normal heals 18 out of 30. Even though Archangel doesn't effect Shield, even though that is our signature spell and we will use it often.

  14. #14
    well even 25mans, if you have a healer who can nearly never go oom, and put out near constant tank heals of a medium variety.

    It may not top meters but it'll be doing a job. not to mention two cooldowns for tanks, shields for raid damage, and most importantly Power Infusion for that dps who pays you to top the meters.

    Then again come cata i'm hoping healers realise its not about beating each other its about working together.

  15. #15
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    I have to disagree with your statements on disc priests. I've been running disc for awhile now and while I felt like they were lacking in single target heal capabilities for WotLK that is not the case with the new patch.

    Disc priests are monsters. I can now tank heroic dungeons with my disc priest thanks to Evangalism. The smite to heal idea is awesome and who wants to dps while healing...?

    This guy<---------

    There is nothing more exciting than running a heroic, being the healer and out dpsing the dps.
    There are dozens of situations for almost every raid boss where that extra bit of smite damage could be the difference between your raid member getting hit by a green ooze or it dying a foot in front of him.
    In all honesty I'm almost giddy at how good disc priests are now. Sadly I still can't bring myself to use greater heal or heal as the mana cost, casting time and healing output have nothing on a few well timed flash heals but that may still change.

    Once we get a couple talent points into lowering the CD on Shadowfiend we will never have mana issues again and excluding a paly we will and should always rule the healing charts.

    Now holy on the other hand...
    Last edited by Obtuse; 2010-10-26 at 04:38 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tortillagirl View Post
    well even 25mans, if you have a healer who can nearly never go oom, and put out near constant tank heals of a medium variety.

    It may not top meters but it'll be doing a job. not to mention two cooldowns for tanks, shields for raid damage, and most importantly Power Infusion for that dps who pays you to top the meters.

    Then again come cata i'm hoping healers realise its not about beating each other its about working together.
    Agreed Tortillagirl, I have wanted a better reason to work as a solid healing group for a long time. As unlimited mana has just meant spam heal everything. But in a situation where mana/mana regen is so important.. than trusting your other healers becomes more interesting.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-26 at 05:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Suzaku View Post
    Were there times when there was a null period when the encounter actually first came out? Going back to do Algalon or Anub or Saurfang when you already have much better gear than required doesn't give us a clear picture. The better question would be can you have 30-60 seconds to DPS when you have to heal Heroic LK 25 or Heroic Halion? If the answer is no, then how can you imagine yourself using Smite against a raid encounter that was just released without burdening another healer? Someone has already raised the question that Atonement heals no better than a Shadow Priest's healing and our DPS as Smite is abysmal as well. If the healers are sufficient, then you might as well bring an extra mage or warlock who can triple the damage of Smite and if the healers are insufficient, then you might as well bring a full fledged healer that can heal.

    Evangelism and Archangel is meant to be a mana regeneration mechanic, however it would require the priest to have over 91000 mana for Archangel to give back the amount of mana spent to Smite 5 times. So basically Blizzard is saying to the Discipline Priest that you will pay less mana for a less effective heal for a boost to your normal heals 18 out of 30. Even though Archangel doesn't effect Shield, even though that is our signature spell and we will use it often.
    I'm totally with Suzaku on this one.

    ---------- Post added 2010-10-26 at 05:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Obtuse View Post
    I have to disagree with your statements on disc priests. I've been running disc for awhile now and while I felt like they were lacking in single target heal capabilities for WotLK that is not the case with the new patch.

    Disc priests are monsters. I can now tank heroic dungeons with my disc priest thanks to Evangalism. The smite to heal idea is awesome and who wants to dps while healing...?

    This guy<---------

    There is nothing more exciting than running a heroic, being the healer and out dpsing the dps.
    In all honesty I'm almost giddy at how good disc priests are now. Sadly I still can't bring myself to use greater heal or heal as the mana cost, casting time and healing output have nothing on a few well timed flash heals but that may still change.

    Once we get a couple talent points into lowering the CD on Shadowfiend we will never have mana issues again and excluding a paly we will and should always rule the healing charts.

    Now holy on the other hand...
    Well.. I think its exciting now. But come Bastion of twilight.. or blackwing descent time.. I'm not so interested in out dpsing the dps.. in fact.. I would be horrified if I could.

  17. #17
    i thought archangel was more of a you can dps without losing mana package. with a nice healing buff to make it worthwhile.

    Maybe say theres a 10 second gap where there very limited damage before a big shitstorm hits, you can chuck out some dps(which still maintains your standard tank healing to get the healing buff up for when the extra healing is realy needed.

    quick question, are you guys using the holy fire glyph to boost the smite damage you do by 20%? Seems like an obvious glyph choice if you go down the smite road.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arith View Post
    There are a few ways this can play out at the moment. Either we are balanced for keeping the healing buff up, which means lots of smiting, and that the majority of our healing will be from random and uncontrollable Atonement heals, or we are balanced without it, in which case it becomes useless and something you use to get some giggles when you outgear content. Theres also the chance that if Disc's heals are balanced to other healers, they then also bring 4k dps. Why would you bring anything else if Disc has on par healing + 1/3 the dmg of a dps? I think this could lead to Disc being nerfed in healing to compensate for the overall package they bring. Id prefer if they just quit with the experimental dps/heals garbage and give me a healing spec revolving around absorption, like I specced into.
    Yes, why would you bring anything else? I ask myself that question all the time. I understand that people want a "dedicated" tank healing spec from disc and feel that our new talents and abilities do not preclude to doing that but if that's what you want then roll a Paly. The new disc offers something no other healing class does; the ability to add to the dps while still being a comperable healer. Disc now plays like a WotLK pvp spec. Which is just way too awesome. I feel like those who ran disc pre-Cata for pvp will find the play style transfers unbelievably well to the pve environment. And I think once mastery begins to play a bigger part in the numbers, our shielding capabilities will return to their once prominent and powerful stature.

    To all those who have never rolled a priest... now is the time.

    And to Tortillagirl, I would absolutely take the glyph of smite for the extra 20% damage, as well as grab that new glyph that increases the hit chance of your smite by 18%
    Last edited by Obtuse; 2010-10-26 at 05:09 PM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tortillagirl View Post
    i thought archangel was more of a you can dps without losing mana package. with a nice healing buff to make it worthwhile.

    Maybe say theres a 10 second gap where there very limited damage before a big shitstorm hits, you can chuck out some dps(which still maintains your standard tank healing to get the healing buff up for when the extra healing is realy needed.

    quick question, are you guys using the holy fire glyph to boost the smite damage you do by 20%? Seems like an obvious glyph choice if you go down the smite road.
    Well.. I think the whole point of this thread .. was not wanting to have to dps.. or take talents which buffed smite. That true endgame.. disc won't be viable if we are trying to randomly heal through smites to regain mana. But the glyph would certainly help.

    ... well.. that and a return to Disc being a single target healing spec
    Last edited by Eroldus; 2010-10-26 at 05:16 PM.

  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Obtuse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arith View Post
    The way it is now, you can sit there virtually useless during that shitstorm because everyone has WS, you have to smite to keep your stack up, we have no meaningful AoE mitigation or healing aside from Barrier, on a huge cd, so after that, then what? You run around spamming holy nova or the horrendously long PoH. Sure, we still have PoM, and I still use it, but the amount of times where my party is low health, and I am simply out of options, left with PoH (which drains your mana abyssmally fast), or stuck with smiting is becoming exceedingly more prevalent.


    Edit: Please dont apply my opinions to current Disc healing, as this is solely aimed at the future and the Cata healing game.
    I do feel your pain, and I don't mean to disagree with you as everyone's play style is different and raid composition will change how you heal, but in regards to spamming Holy Nova of PoH, this post was originally about single target heals.

    I agree that we have less options when raid healing after a "White Out" or "Decimate" but in regards to single target healing, tank healing even, atonement does a significant amount of healing, increases your stacks for archangel and there is nothing to stop you from throwing in a couple flash heals to get that tank back to full strength.

    I suppose we will have to see how these changes transfer to Cata but in the coming fights where an extra 2k dps could be the difference between having to heal through another "Decimate" or "White Out", I'm totally down with the smite heal.

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