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  1. #41
    Stood in the Fire Erik765's Avatar
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    Idk, to me, doesn't seem worth the money purchasing an additional current generation GPU to increase my max FPS in WoW... for my other games, definitely. Can't imagine at all that there would be any increase worth the price of an additional GPU by adding a second GPU, but, to each his own I guess.

    Again, I think it's just confusion between "no minimum framerate improvement" and "no improvement at all".
    He's not getting it Cilraaz. We get it... get it? Who cares if he doesn't get it.

  2. #42
    High Overlord Zookii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
    What kind of increase? Average framerate? Maximum framerate? Minimum frameate? You probably had an increase in maximum (and, due to that, average) framerate. You likely did not have an increase in minimum framerate in a 25-man raiding environment. Again, I think it's just confusion between "no minimum framerate improvement" and "no improvement at all".
    Actually the performance in a 25 man went from 20 FPS with the 8800GT on the Q9550 to at least 30 minimal on the same chip with the GTS 250. The 8800GT was a bad card IMO. You're just stubborn and can't admit that not all computer setups are going to produce what you've seen on your own personal experience. Comparing an older nVidia chipset with a newer, albeit re-badged, better card with a substantial amount of memory is going to give a performance increase. So yes my minimal frame rate went up in a 25 man raiding environment. Seriously can you not face the fact that not all computers and their equipment are equal and can produce different results? Even two identical machines aren't going to produce the same results. As two i5 750 processors are not 100% alike. If you do/did not know that then you know less about CPUs than I think you do. Anyone who OC's their chips these days know that two processors are not 100% equal.

  3. #43
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Your claiming that your Q9550 with a GTS 250 can get 30fps minimum during the whelp pull before Sindy? I don't care if you don't think it's important. You can't claim 30fps minimum if you system EVER drops below that. This is the point you're not understanding. It doesn't matter what you think is or isn't important. Minimum framerate is the lowest framerate your system hits, under any circumstance, regardless of importance.

    Good lord you're dense.

  4. #44
    High Overlord Zookii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
    Your claiming that your Q9550 with a GTS 250 can get 30fps minimum during the whelp pull before Sindy? I don't care if you don't think it's important. You can't claim 30fps minimum if you system EVER drops below that. This is the point you're not understanding. It doesn't matter what you think is or isn't important. Minimum framerate is the lowest framerate your system hits, under any circumstance, regardless of importance.

    Good lord you're dense.
    Sorry I guess when I login to the game and the system hasn't loaded up anything and I sit at 5 FPS that's my minimal frame rate? I'm be facetious. However you're being rather dense to believe that in an uncommon situation where the system is pushed beyond what was programmed to be done and stating that's the minimal frame rate as an uncommon circumstance that's what the system is rated as. I bet you'd even say that while standing an the middle of the zone of Icecrown where a lot of systems can push 80+ and your virus program starts running and drops you to 10 FPS so thats your minimal frame rate. There are exceptions and uncommon circumstances in programming. Stop being naive.

    Have I once claimed that CPU doesn't provide minimal frame rate? Or have I said it does and the rest of the system also provides that minimal frame rate that not CPU alone provides it. Your system has to be decent as a whole not just one component. What you're talking about, in a statistical point of view, is that rare occasion and probably would be labelled a statistical anomaly.

    You're being dense and naive as I've never disagreed that CPU provided a minimal frame rate but said other factors play into that minimal frame rate not just CPU alone. Stop being so stubborn.

    Oh and yes a Q9550 with a GTS 250 CAN in fact get 30FPS minimum. Have you even thought about the concept of not running on ultra settings? Turn up the settings that you need and keep the rest turned down. Makes your system provide best FPS in all situations.

  5. #45
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zookii View Post
    Sorry I guess when I login to the game and the system hasn't loaded up anything and I sit at 5 FPS that's my minimal frame rate? I'm be facetious. However you're being rather dense to believe that in an uncommon situation where the system is pushed beyond what was programmed to be done and stating that's the minimal frame rate as an uncommon circumstance that's what the system is rated as. I bet you'd even say that while standing an the middle of the zone of Icecrown where a lot of systems can push 80+ and your virus program starts running and drops you to 10 FPS so thats your minimal frame rate. There are exceptions and uncommon circumstances in programming. Stop being naive.
    There are exceptions. The AV example is a good one. Pulling mobs and killing them isn't an exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zookii View Post
    Oh and yes a Q9550 with a GTS 250 CAN in fact get 30FPS minimum. Have you even thought about the concept of not running on ultra settings? Turn up the settings that you need and keep the rest turned down. Makes your system provide best FPS in all situations.
    Except that turning down those settings reduces load on the GPU, not CPU, and therefore doesn't increase minimum framerate. Your CPU still has to deal with the same amount of raid information coming at it and feels the same level of stress, which lowers your framerate just as much.

    You are arguing against something that the smartest minds in this forum have debated for months. I'm not voicing this out of my own opinion. I'm voicing this out of months of debate. You are wrong. Get over it.

  6. #46
    High Overlord Zookii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
    There are exceptions. The AV example is a good one. Pulling mobs and killing them isn't an exception.



    Except that turning down those settings reduces load on the GPU, not CPU, and therefore doesn't increase minimum framerate. Your CPU still has to deal with the same amount of raid information coming at it and feels the same level of stress, which lowers your framerate just as much.

    You are arguing against something that the smartest minds in this forum have debated for months. I'm not voicing this out of my own opinion. I'm voicing this out of months of debate. You are wrong. Get over it.
    Pulling mobs in an unconventional isn't an exception? You mean that Blizzard intended for us to pull two groups together that where not programmed to be tied together? Really? You're going to go with that argument and think you're right? Think again. Pulling mobs in a way that was not intended by design is an exception.

    Turning down settings provides less work for the CPU not just GPU. You can't tell me that when you put it all on lower settings and leave up what is needed to see like spell detail that your minimal frame rate doesn't go up in practically all situations.

  7. #47
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zookii View Post
    Pulling mobs in an unconventional isn't an exception? You mean that Blizzard intended for us to pull two groups together that where not programmed to be tied together? Really? You're going to go with that argument and think you're right? Think again. Pulling mobs in a way that was not intended by design is an exception.
    Pulling two side-by-side packs has been a staple of WotLK. There's no outside influence here, like in your AV example. If your computer's framerate drops at this spot, then this spot is where your minimum framerate is incurred. What next? Should we discount Marrowgar's Bone Storm, since the fluff on the floor causes framerate to drop? If we discount those two spots, my minimum framerate jumps to about 30 with my settings at ultra minus half shadows. I guess I could lie to myself to make myself feel better about my system.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zookii View Post
    Turning down settings provides less work for the CPU not just GPU. You can't tell me that when you put it all on lower settings and leave up what is needed to see like spell detail that your minimal frame rate doesn't go up in practically all situations.
    The one setting that can be lowered that actually lowers stress on the CPU is view distance. Lowering view distance doesn't really do much inside an instance, since you've already got a limited view distance just by virtue of the instance being closed. Perhaps in RS it may help alleviate a small amount of CPU stress, but even there it would be minimal at best. For a better example of lowering view distance helping alleviate CPU stress, you'd have to go back at least an expansion to Zul'Aman. Then again, this was before the engine changes that put the extra stress on the CPU in the first place.
    Last edited by Cilraaz; 2010-10-29 at 02:35 PM.

  8. #48
    High Overlord Zookii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cilraaz View Post
    Pulling two side-by-side packs has been a staple of WotLK. There's no outside influence here, like in your AV example. If your computer's framerate drops at this spot, then this spot is where your minimum framerate is incurred. What next? Should we discount Marrowgar's Bone Storm, since the fluff on the floor causes framerate to drop? If we discount those two spots, my minimum framerate jumps to about 30 with my settings at ultra minus half shadows. I guess I could lie to myself to make myself feel better about my system.



    The one setting that can be lowered that actually lowers stress on the CPU is view distance. Lowering view distance doesn't really do much inside an instance, since you've already got a limited view distance just by virtue of the instance being closed. Perhaps in RS it may help alleviate a small amount of CPU stress, but even there it would be minimal at best. For a better example of lowering view distance helping alleviate CPU stress, you'd have to go back at least an expansion to Zul'Aman. Then again, this was before the engine changes that put the extra stress on the CPU in the first place.
    Sorry your system can't handle Marrowgar. I never have that problem personally. You saying pulling side-by-side packs as a staple of WOTLK as if Blizzard designed it that way. You would think the designers or programmers would have tied the packs together if they wanted that. Usually when you hit one mob and a group follows its intended but when you have to go out of your way to hit another to get them to come it wasn't intended. I fail to see where you think it was intended to be programmed that way.

    Again sorry you're system can't handle what others can. I guess knowing how to manipulate my computer to perform optimally over yours is just me knowing my system and you not knowing my system at all. Thus meaning not all computers behave similarly now does it?

  9. #49
    Moderator Cilraaz's Avatar
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    I held the belief the entire time that this argument has been intended to elicit a reaction from me. Now it has. Others have stated that you were wrong. You ignore them and continue to argue with me. Now you insult me with your sarcastic comments. I'm done arguing. You've disrupted this forum long enough. Congratulations on another ban.

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