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  1. #1

    Windfury Weapon no longer has a 3-second internal cooldown.

    I'll be very curious to see how this plays out.

    I'm guessing it will let daggers be slightly more viable, but still not ideal (since our specials are all based off of weapon damage, and I presume that slow weapons will continue to have a higher weapon damage than ilvl-equivalent fast weapons).

    Also, if flurry continues to proc off of crits, the lack of an internal CD on windfury procs may make crit jump significantly in importance for us, especially considering that we'll never be able to diminish the 17% hit reduction from dual-wielding.

  2. #2
    Stood in the Fire Ilir's Avatar
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    The only thing I want them to do with Windfury is to give it his old animation back ! >.<

    But yeah, I like the change.
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  3. #3
    They need to fix the damage before they fix the cd! in the past few expansion wf has been losing its luster, I used to be excited when it proced but now it feels like rogue poisons or pally SoT. But none the less I love the change. Maybe double wf might be used again

  4. #4
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    I want old 2H WF back... and procs proccing off procs.
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  5. #5
    Without an ICD multistrike becomes stat #1.

    But I won't play enhance again until double windfury comes back. Flametongue and lava lash are the lamest additions to any class ever in the history of WoW. They ruined enhancement completely.
    .

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by seasawl0l View Post
    They need to fix the damage before they fix the cd! in the past few expansion wf has been losing its luster, I used to be excited when it proced but now it feels like rogue poisons or pally SoT. But none the less I love the change. Maybe double wf might be used again
    Take a read in the (very long) WoD Alpha patch notes (blue post). You'll be very pleased to note that Blizz has recognized the problem that enhancement has far too many damage sources, and so each ability feels "meh" on it's own. They intend to prune the number of damage sources, and buff individual abilities, accordingly.

  7. #7
    The Lightbringer Alceus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LookingGlass View Post
    Without an ICD multistrike becomes stat #1.

    But I won't play enhance again until double windfury comes back. Flametongue and lava lash are the lamest additions to any class ever in the history of WoW. They ruined enhancement completely.
    Yeah, I quit playing enhancement and switched to elemental. I guess I was having too much fun with my elemental and blizzard is looking to ruin that spec too.
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by LookingGlass View Post
    Without an ICD multistrike becomes stat #1.

    But I won't play enhance again until double windfury comes back. Flametongue and lava lash are the lamest additions to any class ever in the history of WoW. They ruined enhancement completely.
    Multistrike doesn't necessarily automatically jump to #1 stat. I can see where you'd think that, but keep in mind the interaction between crit and flurry. Also, haste leads to more opportunities to cause crits, which indirectly benefits flurry, and hence more windfury procs. I can see every secondary stat being of benefit. Plus, with reforging gone, it's not like we'll be able to reforge-stack into any stat.

    Also, I strongly disagree on your opinion of FT and LL. I've played enhancement since early-BC, and I've enjoyed it more and more, with every expansion - especially after the introduction of both maelstrom weapon and lava lash.

  9. #9
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    Multistrike doesn't necessarily automatically jump to #1 stat. I can see where you'd think that, but keep in mind the interaction between crit and flurry. Also, haste leads to more opportunities to cause crits, which indirectly benefits flurry, and hence more windfury procs. I can see every secondary stat being of benefit. Plus, with reforging gone, it's not like we'll be able to reforge-stack into any stat.

    Also, I strongly disagree on your opinion of FT and LL. I've played enhancement since early-BC, and I've enjoyed it more and more, with every expansion - especially after the introduction of both maelstrom weapon and lava lash.
    Flurry usually has a 90%+ uptime anyway which isn't going to noticeably change from a tiny bit more crit or haste

    My opinion on lava lash becoming important in cata: it sucked and was part of the "making enhance slower" changes I despise. I much preferred 4 second cd filler LL to this flametongue nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Flurry usually has a 90%+ uptime anyway which isn't going to noticeably change from a tiny bit more crit or haste

    My opinion on lava lash becoming important in cata: it sucked and was part of the "making enhance slower" changes I despise. I much preferred 4 second cd filler LL to this flametongue nonsense.
    On the flurry uptime, I think you're referring to late-xpac. I don't think it's anywhere near 90% early in the expansion. Could be wrong, though.

    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "making enhancement slower." Are you referring to how, in wrath, you were always hitting some button, and never had a break, versus how we (occasionally) now have a gap where everything is on CD?

  11. #11
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Embermoon View Post
    On the flurry uptime, I think you're referring to late-xpac. I don't think it's anywhere near 90% early in the expansion. Could be wrong, though.

    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "making enhancement slower." Are you referring to how, in wrath, you were always hitting some button, and never had a break, versus how we (occasionally) now have a gap where everything is on CD?
    Yes, how we seem to be repeatedly losing buttons - now with no hardcasting Maelstroms we will be sitting around even more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Flurry usually has a 90%+ uptime anyway which isn't going to noticeably change from a tiny bit more crit or haste.
    Keep in mind the changes to agility though. Enhancement is an agility class, so our crit is naturally higher than average without any crit chance. Now that Agility won't be granting crit chance...

    Granted, yes crit is being normalized for the agility classes. But I think we'll see a lot more benefit from Crit in the next expansion as well. I'm actually really excited to see what happens with Enhancement in the future.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2014-04-04 at 03:41 PM.
    About the WoD storyline:
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheld View Post
    It would be like if Harry Potter and the half blood prince, now that we're 100% certain the return of Valdemort is inevitable, were about Draco Malfoy going back in time and creating the Iron Slitherins ... so then Harry Potter and friends had to go through the portal to the alternate dimension and then send an army of fanboys to take a shit on anybody who was like "WELL WAIT A MINUTE, WHAT ABOUT THE RETURN OF VALDEMORT?".

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    now with no hardcasting Maelstroms we will be sitting around even more.
    Well, it isn't quite that cut-and-dry. It definitely changes the "maelstrom math," and we'll probably have to recheck some assumptions, but there's no guarantee that our behavior will end up changing too significantly.

    Imagine you have 20 maelstrom charges to spend over some period of time. If you cast each lightning bolt at 5 stacks, you'd get 4x LB damage in MoP, or 8x LB damage in WoD. If you cast each lightning bolt at 4 stacks instead, you'd get 5x LB damage in MoP, or 9x LB damage in WoD. So, just examining that change, you might feel that the value of hardcasting has declined (from 1.25x LBs to 1.125x LBs), but this analysis ignores the efficiency gains (you waste less charges by hardcasting, and those charges will be more valuable in WoD), and it also ignores the opportunity cost of hardcasting, which may* be changing (in MoP, it's basically clipped auto-attacks plus less ability uses for anything below a hard-casted LB in the priority (which, today, is really just earth shock some of the time)).

    * It's hard to say whether that opportunity cost will be changing, since we don't know how significantly our priority will be changing (if at all) or how valuable auto-attacks will be relative to today. We can estimate the 2nd one based on information we have available, but that information might not be complete: agi->ap is cut in half from 2 to 1, but ap to weapon damage conversion is quadrupled (from 1 wd every 14 AP to 1 wd every 3.5 AP); weapon damage on weapons is being reduced by approximately 20% relative to other stats, and we'll be critting significantly less often with melee abilities/auto-attacks, unless we devote a larger portion of our secondary stat budget into crit rating.
    Last edited by Nitwit; 2014-04-04 at 09:25 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Flurry usually has a 90%+ uptime anyway which isn't going to noticeably change from a tiny bit more crit or haste

    My opinion on lava lash becoming important in cata: it sucked and was part of the "making enhance slower" changes I despise. I much preferred 4 second cd filler LL to this flametongue nonsense.
    Dont know if you red all patch notes but agi/int are change in WoD no longer give extra crit , but agi users get extra 10% crit so 5% crit for st/int users 15% crit for agi users, so Flurry will no longer have 90% up time if you will ignore crit,

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kubuntu View Post
    Dont know if you red all patch notes but agi/int are change in WoD no longer give extra crit , but agi users get extra 10% crit so 5% crit for st/int users 15% crit for agi users, so Flurry will no longer have 90% up time if you will ignore crit,
    I've read patch notes, I can't see it making a huge difference considering I was being very conservative with this 90% - in raid gear it will most likely be true again depending on how we are with haste and other stats.

    Even if it's 80%, it doesn't change the point. Crit's benefit to flurry is largely diminished by the such high uptime already existing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  16. #16
    Brewmaster Darksoldierr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    I want old 2H WF back... and procs proccing off procs.
    and procs on procs proccing off procs of procs in an eternal cycle of proccing
    Time is on our side
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by LookingGlass View Post
    Without an ICD multistrike becomes stat #1.

    But I won't play enhance again until double windfury comes back. Flametongue and lava lash are the lamest additions to any class ever in the history of WoW. They ruined enhancement completely.
    There will probably be a 0.25s ICD so that it will not proc off of itself. This is the easy Blizzard way of "fixing". However, even a 0.25s ICD would diminish Multistrike values by not allowing WF to proc on each Multistrike hit.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Yes, how we seem to be repeatedly losing buttons - now with no hardcasting Maelstroms we will be sitting around even more.
    **IF** the datamined perks make it through to live, where each FS tick will have a 15% chance to reset LL, then I think you'll see quite a bit of that fill time filled with LL procs. Also, I think some of it will be filled with weaving frost shocks in, since they'll (datamined) be off the shared shock CD.

    Then, if the "LL spreads FS to SIX targets" change goes through, then I think your AoE rotation will have all the LL procs that we were hoping the T16 4-set bonus was supposed to have.

    Personally, (again, presuming alpha changes make it to live) I prefer a design that has fewer, but stronger-hitting damage sources.

  19. #19
    On the sitting around matter, if the new EotE makes it to live, then that's another thing to fill in any gaps.

    FS ticks proccing an extra LL and EotE not causing a cd

  20. #20
    Windfury's damage is being adjusted to deal 3 additional attacks for 70% weapon damage (no bonus AP). Uhh lemme find that source real quick..

    http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=8232#modified-by
    Last edited by Terminal Lance; 2014-04-05 at 08:40 PM.

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