unsure about the "haste cap formula"

[Badpaladin]

I've got the feeling, that haste not only affects the CD of CS, but also the GCD of it.

The time gap between my filler attacks and CS coming off cd just feels way too long => I believe the haste cap may be even higher than 1k.

That doesn't make any sense, I assume you're talking about judgment and TV right? Because what you're describing is expected with the other fillers.

[Nillo]

That doesn't make any sense, I assume you're talking about judgment and TV right? Because what you're describing is expected with the other fillers.

What else would it be? Once heroism runs out I really have the feeling, that I'm waiting about half a second for CS to come off cd (and even more if I use Exo/HW)

[Badpaladin]

Dunno, go over your logs and see how many you fit in during hero. /shrug

[Nillo]

Just tried it on a target dummy: CS cd at ~ 3.17 seconds and with cs-tv spam I still have about 1 sec left on my cs cd.

[Sagittaron]

I was wondering about this, too. If you have enough haste to make crusader strike 3s cooldown, then you probably have enough so that your GCD is under 1.5 seconds, which means your filler isn't taking up the entire timeslot in between crusader strikes.

[Badpaladin]

Nay melee gcd's aren't supposed to be affected by haste, including cs. Hmm, that sort of sucks.

[epie]

Nay melee gcd's aren't supposed to be affected by haste, including cs. Hmm, that sort of sucks.

Melee abilities no, but melee have spells whose gcd's are affected by haste.

[Nillo]

Melee abilities no, but melee have spells whose gcd's are affected by haste.

We're not talking about spells here, we are talking about CS, Judgement, TV - all of them aremelee abilities, that shouldn't have their gcd reduced by haste. But for some reason a 3 sec cd on cs still leaves a gap when using cs-tv-cs-tv.

[Deleted]

I've tested different amounts of haste, and i found out, that a 3sec CS colldown is needed for an optimal rotation.
No adjustement to latency, 3 sec in my spellbook.
(usually have about 35 latency, but if i drop to something like 920, I have a noticeable time to wait)

Just accept that the formula at elitist jerks was not the end of the discussion, they even removed statweighting for now.

I strongly believe CS-Cooldown is at, least to some degree, client based.
So if you CS, you have to wait 3 sec under all conditions to activate CS again.
Together with the new spellqueueing it works out as follows:

For easy math i'll assume a latency of 100ms.
Press CS, CS goes of 100ms later, cooldown timer begins to run. (Clientside)
1,3 sec passed, you activate Templars Verdict for example.
TV is queued and executed on 1,5sec after CS serverside, 1,6sec after you hit button on client.
Now if you have exactely 3sec CD on CS, or around 1016 haste (personally i run with 1015), you can activate and queu CS exactly 3 sec after first buttonpush.
Serverside the GCD from TV is still running 0,1 of course, but with latency and spellqueueing, the command works at the right time.

Actions on client side: 0->CS, 1,5->TV 3->CS
Actions on server side with 100 latency: 0,1->CS, 1,6->TV, 3,1->CS.

Of course the delay created by latency will never be gone entirely, but now its just a delay in execution, and not in gaps between attacks.
Serverside you can have the perfect rotation... just (put your latency here) ms later.
This works as long as your latency is not > spellqueueing system. Around 0,3-0,4 sec is my best guess.

Now whatever your latency is, if you base your gear on it, you have a problem.
Since you cant queue CS until your CD is up, with a "latency-based" CS-CD of 3,1 the following will happen:

Actions on client side: 0->CS, 1,5->TV, 3,1->CS.
Actions on server side: 0,1->CS, 1,6->TV, 3,2->CS

You intentionally created a gap... both felt on clientside, and executed serverside. Good luck on your rotations

Conclusion:
Whatever your latency, stack haste to 1018 for 3sec CS CD.
Even a little bit more doesnt harm, as is lets you queu CS a little bit earlier. Of cause GCD from your previous attack gets in the way, but this way you can be sure there's no delay from human reaction.

I run exactly with 1015 haste, and its working fine.
But even i have to push CS acactly as it comes of CD, and cannot queu it like my other abilities.
I reforged everything i could without losing hit or expertisecap, and believe me.. i'd get around 100 more haste if i could for better gameplay.
Dont know if my math and assumptions about the machanics are 100% correct, but atleast for me, IT WORKS.
No need for a theory looking wonderful on papar, but doesnt work in actual gameplay. (like gearing for less haste then you need to play fluently)

Try it out, you WILL notice significant improvements on time to wait.

[Kenjji]

I'm sitting on 1060 haste and still wait for it to come off CD, if possible i'd reforge more haste but i doubt its possible to get more then 1.1k unbuffed

[Sinister Knight]

This pretty much seems to reinforce Blizz's "design" that we are now to be Rogues in plate, with Holy damage filling in for Poison Nature damage, and playing the waiting game for Sinister Str-I mean Crusader Strike.
This will inevitably lead to the following:
Build up Combo Power with Crusinister Strike, finish with Templar's Evisceration, for aoe use Divine Storm of Knives, blow cooldowns Avenging Rush and Killing Zealotspree, keep up Slice and Dicequisition...behold, the Palassassin Hero Class! Oh and don't forget to properly utilize your Manergy resource for optimum dps!

[BDF]

This pretty much seems to reinforce Blizz's "design" that we are now to be Rogues in plate, with Holy damage filling in for Poison Nature damage, and playing the waiting game for Sinister Str-I mean Crusader Strike.
This will inevitably lead to the following:
Build up Combo Power with Crusinister Strike, finish with Templar's Evisceration, for aoe use Divine Storm of Knives, blow cooldowns Avenging Rush and Killing Zealotspree, keep up Slice and Dicequisition...behold, the Palassassin Hero Class! Oh and don't forget to properly utilize your Manergy resource for optimum dps!

I lol'd kinda hard.

I've been seeing the same thing as the people in this thread, but I thought I was just triggering some kind of client server GCD time-check because I'm mashing CS and it seems to cause some kind of extra gcd if I press it just before it comes off CD. It's really annoying.

[Revolutions]

I DLed an addon called DPStime, it shows the MS between moves used. I suggest anyone who is trying to get a smooth, no delay CS -> filler rotation to use it. I will keep track and tell you the exact MS delay between abilities used.

[Deleted]

Should try this too.
I predict around 1100 haste rating for a really smoth rotation, keep us up to date.

Anyone else having looking forward to cata raiding with mixed feelings?
We're sitting in T10, and reforging for 1000 haste barely have over 25% crit unbuffed.
(I'm noway near BIS, but full 264..)
What will this look like in cata?
Hi/exp- gear, with haste offstat, no mastery, no crit (reforged away if possible)...
Barely at hastecap in T13, sitting on 10% crit?