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  1. #1

    Question What factors into Alliance losing in BGs more often than Horde?

    I've only been playing end-game content since Ulduar was new, up to that point I'd just been leveling separate toons since vanilla, maybe 4 months out of each year.
    One thing that has never really changed though is Alliance always losing to Horde in Battlegrounds. Now, I'm using the word 'Always' lightly. Clearly there are times when Alliance prevail, but they are few and far between.

    I've PvP'd on two separate battlegroups, one as alliance and the other as Horde. Same Story. Horde win 85% (guess) of the Battles. The only differences I have been able to detect are that alliance are used to losing and therefore accept it easier and when someone decides to take charge in a BG and spout out strategies, Horde listen and alliance all dilly-dally around the map doing nothing that actually counts towards winning the game.

    What do you guys think are the reasons for alliance losing so often? Is it really a case of Alliance being comprised of more children than Horde who are unable to listen and appreciate the importance of strategy?

    I am absolutely biased towards horde and am Transferring all of my alliance toons higher than level 60 to Horde, so although I want to hear opinions from both sides, Im a little more interested in what hardcore alliance fans have to say for themselves.

  2. #2
    Blademaster Pie Lord's Avatar
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    I will agree that the Horde tend to win more with random groups than the Alliance do. But 85%? Please, that statistic is pure and utter Bullshit. At the most, we're talking about a 60/40 ratio in favor of the Horde.
    “Where books are burned in the end people will burn.”
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  3. #3
    Field Marshal Soady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Lord View Post
    I will agree that the Horde tend to win more with random groups than the Alliance do. But 85%? Please, that statistic is pure and utter Bullshit. At the most, we're talking about a 60/40 ratio in favor of the Horde.
    This

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Lord View Post
    I will agree that the Horde tend to win more with random groups than the Alliance do. But 85%? Please, that statistic is pure and utter Bullshit. At the most, we're talking about a 60/40 ratio in favor of the Horde.
    ^ This ^

  5. #5
    from what i see they try to be heroes, going into a group of 2-4 horde thinking they can solo them going one at a time endlessly thinking "heheh ill save this game", granted i have seen it done.

    example (playing horde) played an AB last night and gold mine was being taken so from blacksmith i parachuted down to gm thinking i could interrupt the flag taker for long enough that it would take for more reinforcements to show up. there had to be at least 7 alliance there and i died in seconds, did i go back and try again?
    lol no, i went back to defending bs

    edit: more details my mains are horde but i do have a few alliance characters(80 dk 60/22 warrior and 37 priest) that i don't really pay much attention to

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Lord View Post
    I will agree that the Horde tend to win more with random groups than the Alliance do. But 85%? Please, that statistic is pure and utter Bullshit. At the most, we're talking about a 60/40 ratio in favor of the Horde.
    Thank you for pointing out that the percentage I admittedly (or at least hinted at with the guess in parentheses) made up is, well, made up. Good job making your comment on this thread completely irrelevant to what Im asking of everyone. Same goes to the 2nd and third posters who decided one word responses are helpful, especially when you do not punctuate.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Pie Lord View Post
    I will agree that the Horde tend to win more with random groups than the Alliance do. But 85%? Please, that statistic is pure and utter Bullshit. At the most, we're talking about a 60/40 ratio in favor of the Horde.
    I wouldn't really even agree to that. It's almost 50/50 across all battlegroups. You may be in a crap battlegroup for your side, but overall it's just not true. I didn't think the OP could fit so many cliched misconceptions into a post as he did, but somehow he did. The alliance isn't full of a bunch of children more so than the horde, and the horde isn't full of more macho college student neckbeards than the alliance, especially with battlegroups smoothing out the population disparities. It's the same group of people, despite what people like to think.

    For the record, I play horde for the most part, with a couple of alliance toons here and there.

    Edit: http://www.warcraftrealms.com/bg_list.php

    Take a look at some actual statistics. The differences are negligible at best between the sides, especially if you total everything up in order to see the overall picture.
    Last edited by SobeBauxite; 2010-10-28 at 09:29 PM.

  8. #8
    On my battlegroup they don't win more than alliance... it's extremely balanced except in Warsong Gulch where Horde win a lot more.

    The reason they win a lot more in WSG is usually the simple fact that they normally have 2-3 healers and are able to succeed when both teams are turtled up as they try and return the 1st flag. Alliance are lucky if there's 1 healer in a WSG game. The question from my experience would be, why do horde always seem to have more healers in WSG?

    If horde really do succeed in BG's more overall maybe it's just because somewhere along the line people began to believe the whole "alliance are kids, horde are more mature" stuff and so over time a lot of alliance players who were more determined to win went horde and gradually horde began to win more than alliance. I seriously doubt it's anywhere close to even 75% win ratio to horde though let alone 85% on all but 1 or 2 battlegroups and even then I bet there are battlegroups where alliance win more than horde.

    It's slightly off topic but after my guild rolled horde alts and started raiding horde side, we were universally agreed that the horde on our battlegroup has far more bad players than Alliance in terms of PVE. There are bad players on both sides but in our random dungeons and pug raids we met far far more bad players horde side than we ever did alliance side. I only mention this because it goes counter to the whole "alliance are kids, horde are pros" type feeling some people have for no apparent reason.
    Last edited by Paulosio; 2010-10-28 at 09:28 PM.

  9. #9
    Warchief Szemere's Avatar
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    On some battlegroups it is worse than on others, and it also depends on time of day. Do i lose 5 random BGs in a row and i keep encountering the same people? I stop playing for a few hours or do other stuff. There is always the small 20% of people in the battleground that go over tactics a bit, and communicate, but the biggest point i totally hate, is that the other 80% does not communicate at all, and just runs to whenever they see a hordie, and think they can win. What i also notice, is that some battlegrounds are far worse than the others. Take Strand of the Ancients. I happen to only have won that one like 5 times out of the at least 50 times i have been there. Why? I guess it is all about defending points, alliance seems to suck at it. Take Arathi Basin, how often have you seen people capping a flag and running on without defending it? (as alliance) They often only care about killing hordes. While 1 vs 1 they might do okay, they suck at teamplay. This is why it only requires 5 hordes to capture ANY base there. Other battlegrounds like Alterac Valley, when horde is not defending that much, alliance DOES know what to do. Blitzing. But as soon as the 5 people defending Iceblood Tower get defeated, it will take at least 10 minutes for a decent group to show up and try to recapture it, because everyone is hanging at Drek's place, pulling him out over and over.
    Who am i? I am the only Szemere of the EU servers, I am a Gnome, and I'm proud of it. I am also looking forward to rated battlegrounds, and I am looking for people that have brains to do that with.

    TLDR: Alliance sucks at BG's because they lack the will of listening to other people, ordering them to do something they don't like, with one of the biggest things being defending.

  10. #10
    Immortal Schattenlied's Avatar
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    I (As Alliance) have won approximately 54% of the BGs I have played across all my 80s (9 80s, over 4k games played)


    It's either your battlegroup, or its all in your head.
    Last edited by Schattenlied; 2010-10-28 at 09:56 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinyknight View Post
    Having PvPed as both Horde and Alliance, on the same battlegroup, I have to say there is little or no difference between the win rates. Its mainly a psychological thing, people tend to forget wins and exaggerate losses, probably because the time investment is the same for both but the rewards are much lower for losing, making you angry.

    My win rate for both is 50-60%, so either I am simultaneously so awesome I can single handedly win BGs for Alliance and so terrible I drag the Horde down or the win rate is about the same and my efforts are making a positive impact for both.
    This.

  12. #12
    Horde tend to have more healers on average, but this is not a critical factor. i have wont every BG at least once with no healers. WSG being the hardest. Having played both sides on the same battle group, my experience suggests its the overall skill level of the players. both sides complain about teammates not calling incs or providing information. if i had to point at one thing specifically i would say Alliance tend to be more lazy. They are not proactive and make poor decisions about what node to attack next.

    All this being said, Alliance usually have the ultimate trump card. Queue times. I wouldn't trade my 60% lose rate and my 15-40 second queue times for 75% win rate with 6-12 minute queues. fuck alllllll that.

  13. #13
    I think the point of the OP is that in his perception, Horde wins a statistically significantly large number of BG's than Alliance. Obviously this may not hold true for everyone individually, as individual skillsets vary as to groupings, but it is worth noting that for all the new threads commenting on how Horde generally outperforms Alliance, I cannot recall a single new thread commenting on the reverse.

    While select Battlegroups may offer different experience, it seems the norm is for Horde to outperform Alliance. I've noticed the same trending in three Battlegroups within which I've participated. I'd like to be able to chalk it up to simply poor communications / strategy / play on part of Alliance, but it doesn't seem likely that there's that much of a difference between those playing Horde versus those playing Alliance that would generate the level of disparity evidenced by forum commentary.

    On the positive note.... Rated BG's coming soon

    BG's should ideally be right at a 50/50 split. Obviously that will never happen, but even at a 60/40 split it is a concern.

  14. #14
    to me personally it always looks like horde wins 70% or more (i play alliance) but when i check statistics on my armory i see that it's pretty much 50/50(and i never leave bg's, since leaving compromises these statistics)

  15. #15
    my win/loss on my hunter is currently 604/826 or 73.1% win rate HOWEVER 91 of those 222 losses are AV(57/148 38.5%)

    take out av 547/678 80.7% win rate

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulosio View Post
    On my battlegroup they don't win more than alliance... it's extremely balanced except in Warsong Gulch where Horde win a lot more.
    Do you by chance, play on the Ruin Battlegroup? Because it's like that for us.

  17. #17
    i keep a writting log of my bg's outcome. playing resto druid in pvp (ally). on average i lose 7/10. depending a bit on time of the day. one of the biggestest reasons i think is the lack of healers, i'm usealy the only one in wsg, and in ab/eos there might be 1 or 2 more, wile horde always has more.

  18. #18
    Deleted
    played both horde and alliance on the same group (same server even) on the same day.
    lost most bgs on both sides. it depends sooo much on luck.

    the warcraftrealms stats vastly favor the horde, though, i fail to understand how one cannot see that.

  19. #19
    I'd certainly say for my battlegroup that the horde winning 85% of the time is rather accurate. It always seems that almost every horde group is made up of a majority of healers, so you'll have 4-5 healers and 2-3 dps (usually mages and shammies) going around wrecking everyone. Alliance in my battlegroup can barely handle taking down one healer, let alone a group of healers healing each other. Add to it the massive fights that tend to break out on alliance side between the south american and u.s. servers during a bg. Sadly, on my hunter I end up being 2nd in heals in a good amount of bg's too, I really don't think alliance play healers. For example, my rogue has 360 eots battles with 117 wins, 328 wsg battles with 109 wins. AV and isle are about 50/50 with me. Of course this doesn't add up to 85%, but when you have to play for 3 or more hours everyday usually just to win your random bg it sure feels like 85%.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Texaswarrior View Post
    played both horde and alliance on the same group (same server even) on the same day.
    lost most bgs on both sides. it depends sooo much on luck.

    the warcraftrealms stats vastly favor the horde, though, i fail to understand how one cannot see that.

    You would be lucky if there are 100 contributing members from your battle group on that site. those stats are so broken due to no one providing details.

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