Haste vs Mastery - Destro

[Deleted]

Although this has been debated before, i would just like to give my 2 cents on it and see what people actually have experienced (not just done the math to). I do appreciated all the math that has been put in coming up with the optimal solution, but my recount doesn't really agree with it.
What I mean is the fact that I have tried reforging to get 1200 Haste, and less mastery, or going to 1001 haste and the rest into mastery and for me personally there's a 2-3k dps difference (in favor of less haste and more mastery). This has been tested on ICC25 bosses and not on dummies since everybody seems to claim that their level of reliability is somewhat weak.
Could somebody explain to me why less haste and more mastery is working out in my favor? Im not one to focus on the math that has been done, rather just try out different options (but i have read the math).
What Im really looking for is math vs experience in-game opinions.. and an explain as to why the math doesn't match what I see.
thanks and please don't flame if you consider this has already been discussed, rather you just don't answer

[Joetrue]

Actually its pretty simpel..

Between 852 and 1406 haste, mastery is worth more then haste.. But when u hit either 852 og 1406 haste u gain an extra tick with your immolate and your dmg increases alot. I would read some of the many guides in here that explains it in more detail. Cause tbh i wont bother when its bin posted so many times..

[Joetrue]

Dathkoil that is just wrong.. 1269 was the old haste cap(50%) with haste raid buffs.. GCD has always bin at 50 % haste and currently 1406 haste with 5 % haste buff from shaman/priest is 50% haste..

852 is a immolate tick soft cap.. Meaning if u cant get 1406 haste then you should reforge haste to mastery until you reduce your haste to 852 or slightly over it.. 851 or 1405 haste means u wont get the additional immolate tick, so that would be really stupid.. TJeck EJ or many of the other posts in here for confirmation.. I can also post the math but TBH its bin posted so many times..

[Joetrue]

I have not posted enough to be able to post links..

But check the post: 4.01 haste info on the second page..

It clearly states that gcd haste cap is 1406 (1405,3).. 1405 is not 1405,3 in blizz math.. So 1406 is the cap u wanna aim for..

For reaching the 1.0 second incinerate with backdraft you need 1640 haste..

So 1268 is currently not giving you anything, other then faster normal incinerates. And if this is the case, mastery is worth more according to simcraft..

Personel experience:

I have a 1415 warlock and under backdraft i dont hit the 1 second incinerate cast times.. I only waste casting time under imp sf or bloodlust, when my inc is under 1 sec.

[Deleted]

I made this thread for personal experience, that's what i'm more interested in because it seems that there's so much aruging over the math that there are a couple of different versions. And as stated before, with only 1001 Haste and all crit/hit/spirit reforged into mastery, im doing a lot more dps then with 1400 haste...
Im interested more in what you observe without including the math

[Cusco]

Without Backdraft - Yes 1405 (not 1406) with 5% haste raid buff is 50% haste. 1406 (one more than the cap) gives you one extra tick of Immolate.

With Backdraft, the haste cap shouldn't have changed, 1268 haste + Backdraft + raid haste buff would reduce the cast time of Incinerate to 1 second. If this is no longer true, I encourage someone to correct me.

The difference between 3.3.5 and 4.0.1 is that we no longer have the 3% haste buff.

GCD Cap (50% Haste (32.79*50))
5% Buff
3% Buff
GCD Cap with both buffs

1639.5-(1639.5-1405)-(((1639.5-1405)/5)*3) = 1 264.3

It's not precise and it's not the optimal way to calculate this, but it's a simple way to show why it's now 1405 haste instead of 1268 haste. Because if you now remove the last part, the 3% buff, you'll end up at 1405 haste, obviously.

[Joetrue]

If u only had 1400 haste then yes, u would see an increase in your dmg by reforging to mastery.. BUT if u could get the 1406 haste u would see a big increase in the dmg done by your immolate and conflag..

In my guild we have 2 warlocks, me at 1415 haste and our former demo warlock with only 1100 haste.. Around same item level, but the former demo lock waste a loft of is stats budget on spirit.. Even though he got more SP and Mastery then me, my immolate and conflag does more dmg.. Our incinerate dmg is about the same, his hitting harder, but im able to get a couple more away.. If u dont want the math then there is so many variables that can play in, so any information based on peoples observations is not really essentiel. U need the math to backup your observations.

I would still sugest u focused on the math. The game is based on spreadsheets, and im sure the EJ boys know a thing or two about spreadsheets..

[Deleted]

If u only had 1400 haste then yes, u would see an increase in your dmg by reforging to mastery.. BUT if u could get the 1406 haste u would see a big increase in the dmg done by your immolate and conflag..

In my guild we have 2 warlocks, me at 1415 haste and our former demo warlock with only 1100 haste.. Around same item level, but the former demo lock waste a loft of is stats budget on spirit.. Even though he got more SP and Mastery then me, my immolate and conflag does more dmg.. Our incinerate dmg is about the same, his hitting harder, but im able to get a couple more away.. If u dont want the math then there is so many variables that can play in, so any information based on peoples observations is not really essentiel. U need the math to backup your observations.

I would still sugest u focused on the math. The game is based on spreadsheets, and im sure the EJ boys know a thing or two about spreadsheets..

Thanks for the answer - only question that really remains how in my head is something like.. more haste = faster casting + more ticks.. but more mastery = hitting for more damage... and tbh, for my personal experience, it just seems that it balances out

[Joetrue]

Its a tough question..

The recommendation from the math boys currently is that IF you can get the extra tick from immolate, then go for it. IF not, then you should focus on reforging for mastery..

[Deleted]

thanks for the help

[harky]

Because of the threshold for new ticks, you should always be going for Haste if you can get to the next tick. Otherwise Mastery is better. Going from 1405 to 1406 Haste is a ~5-6% DPS gain for 1 point of Haste. Going from 851 to 852 is closer to a 10% DPS gain for 1 point of Haste.

If you're not getting another DoT tick then: Hit (to cap) > Int > Mastery > SP > Haste = Crit
If you are getting another DoT tick then: Haste > Hit (to cap) > Int > Mastery > Crit