Currently Searing Totem self-destructs vs damage shields

[arcangel1337]

keep in mind that none of these changes for any class/spec are balanced properly for lvl 80, how about everyone wait until cataclysm actually comes out and see how it goes at lvl 85.

I see your quote and raise you another: "Some of those numbers have already come down. If you recall, Fury dps was low with the patch, so we buffed it, knowing that we would have to nerf it again to keep it under control at 85, especially with Colossus Smash and Deep Wounds. Ret had a similar issue with Inquisition"

From the front page

Basically, we are told "everything balances at 85, we don't care about 80" Yet warriors and rets get buffs for level 80 just to be balanced again at 85

[Shamslam]

Except that Rogue combo points are also target-specific, and they've learned to cope.

Except rogues don't rely on some stupid mechanic and it doesn't take nearly 10 seconds to get to 5 points. It maybe takes me 3 GCDs to get 5 points, then after that it usually takes 2. This is ten times better than some HerpDerp Totem that can't figure out what's going on.

I see your quote and raise you another: "Some of those numbers have already come down. If you recall, Fury dps was low with the patch, so we buffed it, knowing that we would have to nerf it again to keep it under control at 85, especially with Colossus Smash and Deep Wounds. Ret had a similar issue with Inquisition"

From the front page

Basically, we are told "everything balances at 85, we don't care about 80" Yet warriors and rets get buffs for level 80 just to be balanced again at 85

Because ungodly amounts of QQ from the most popular classes would have 0 effect on Blizzard throwing them a crutch. None at all. But really, they got insanely nerfed because of their 80+ moves. Whereas most classes gain a buff or a decent move in their rotation, warriors/pallys use Colossal/Inqu as one of their biggest moves, kind of forcing them to be gimped now. It's just Blizzard caving to people who couldn't wait 2 months.

Any anyway, the guy you quoted is stupidly wrong. Anyone who says Searing Flames is balanced around 85 obviously isn't smart enough to figure out that mechanics don't change as you level, numbers do.

[Omanley]

I haven't played a rogue in a long time, but I remember that the combo system from them works more or less the same, the combo points are tied to the mob, not them.

I know that they have some CDs that allows them to put combo points faster, but that is all

1.) as you said, you're knowledge of rogue is lacking, still, you pointed out exactly why rg has it better:
2.) rogues have direct control of their point, but they also are able to stack it MUCH faster

just opening with gives you one or two cp's, depending on what you use, but there are many talents that assist cp stacking through additional procced cp's when critting, unleashing a finisher and similar.

also, the whole rogue system is build around this mechanic, while ours is not. if you make rogue cp stacking even easier, they will screw everyone all over the place, while isn't made to fit with such a stupid mechanic at all.

mutilate stacks 2 cp, both mutilate and combat have enegery procs

searing totem doesn't even scale with haste. and about your argument that you cant take cd with you on next mob: wrong. they get a small cooldown to allow them exactly that. in accord killing they wont be able to use it as often as they want, yes, but it's still there.

also mutilate has a talent to make armor debuff cost no cp, and to make evis/envenom refresh s&d

so yes, rogues have it much easier with their system, and that's good for them and all. but i simply dont want this shitty thing they call a talent, especially not when they expect us to invest 5 talent points for the whole mechanic.

[Endus]

Except rogues don't rely on some stupid mechanic and it doesn't take nearly 10 seconds to get to 5 points. It maybe takes me 3 GCDs to get 5 points, then after that it usually takes 2. This is ten times better than some HerpDerp Totem that can't figure out what's going on.

The difference is precisely that rogues rely on combo points. Without them, you can't use finishers.

Shaman can still Lava Lash for decent damage even with zero stacks of Searing Flames. Lava Lash is significantly better now than it was pre-4.0.1, and that's without considering Searing Flames.

So of course Rogues have better control and faster generation. You're based on combo points. Enhancement shaman aren't.


This mechanic is not what is causing Enhancement shaman's issues currently. If you don't LIKE the mechanic, there's two other specs your Shaman can use.

[Skogtrollet]

The difference is precisely that rogues rely on combo points. Without them, you can't use finishers.

Shaman can still Lava Lash for decent damage even with zero stacks of Searing Flames. Lava Lash is significantly better now than it was pre-4.0.1, and that's without considering Searing Flames.

So of course Rogues have better control and faster generation. You're based on combo points. Enhancement shaman aren't.


This mechanic is not what is causing Enhancement shaman's issues currently. If you don't LIKE the mechanic, there's two other specs your Shaman can use.

This.

[Gray_Matter]

This mechanic is not what is causing Enhancement shaman's issues currently. If you don't LIKE the mechanic, there's two other specs your Shaman can use.

So, I like melee DPS but must switch spec to ranged DPS or healing (which both require brand new gear because there is no commonality between enh gear and the other two) because bliz added a convoluted mechanic and made the spec boring to enh?

[Enkshar]

Rogues now can use combopoints left on dead mobs with recuperate and SnD and with redirect (lvl 81) they can just switch their cojmbo points from one mob to another. This is clearly a way to fix the down time of having to build combos points with every new target, and not waist existing ones. So if blizz saw this mecanic has its flaws and designed a way to solve it, its not crazy to ask they do something like this with ST stacks as they build in a slower way and affects the main skill of enh.

OT: It would be nice to see a complet list of which skills are causing this problem. Imo its probably a bug as not all of damaging shield are killing the totem. If it was intended, all similar effect should do it.

[woopytywoop]

I don't know if warriors still have a damage shield since blizz removed most passive threat talents.
I do know that warriors however have a spell reflect and if talented they gain rage when a succesfull spell reflect happens.

I would be happy if my searing gets eaten by it in stead of getting a lava lash (luckily not with the added ST stack damage) reflected back in my face or even a hex/shock/lb. And I have seen this happening already that my ST destroys itself due to spell reflect (or gettting a ll back in my face).

You always can also use a (glyphed) stoneclaw, maybe your ST will last a little longer, but against a warrior I can imagine you want tremor down until he used his fear.

As for thorns/molten armor mages/retri aura etc, haven't noticed this yet. I purge the crap out of droods before i even attempt to take them down (thorns, barkskin, possible hot's). But have duelled retri's with their retribution aura up and I always managed to get 5 stacks on them without replanting ST unless they destroyed it actively.

[bliston78]

i think it's a little off the OP topic here.. wasn't this about the totem dying to things like thorns / ret aura etc.

and yes blizz has said they are working on the AI, and i honestly hate the idea to have to use a totem for part of my rotaion / priority que, i'd rahter have an idea i put up on a blizz forum but never really saw anything from it

lower the CD for Lava lash and let it build up like the searing totem does now, also putting a dot on the target same as the searing totem, then when you get to the 5 stacks, 5 stacks being the max, you use a lava burst, seeing as how we're a melee class only makes logical sense to use a melee attack to help build up our dps rather than a stick in the ground that has AI problems, that way blizz could just say it's your problem deal with it instead of have to add that AI in on a totem that dps' for us

P.S. i know that's off of the MW now(would have worked if it stayed with the maelstorm weapon proc)

[Endus]

So, I like melee DPS but must switch spec to ranged DPS or healing (which both require brand new gear because there is no commonality between enh gear and the other two) because bliz added a convoluted mechanic and made the spec boring to enh?

Or roll a new character of a different melee class, whose mechanics you enjoy.

I've loved Enhancement since TBC, when it was vastly worse than even the current situation, mechanics, rotation, and relative DPS performance.

I'm now main specced Elemental, because I don't like the new direction. This new direction came up precisely because many Enhancement shaman were complaining that the rotation was too frantic and "busy", and that we didn't have a single target totem solution and thus ended up using Magma Totem because it was better DPS, even single target, than Searing Totem.

The new Searing Flames mechanic, and CD changes, answers both of those complaints. It's a move away from what I prefer, but that's because the majority of their players wanted the change. If they decide to abandon this mechanic, it will likely be to introduce a new one. And frankly, I'd rather they take some time to try and make this new one work, rather than switching to an entirely new concept that will bring entirely new and unforeseen issues.

The biggest issue with Searing Totem is its AI. Searing Flames is working as intended. Lava Lash doesn't require you to wait till it's fully stacked; use it before the enemy dies and move on.

Seriously, I can understand complaining about bad Searing Totem AI. I don't understand complaints about this mechanic, which by all accounts is working exactly as designed. The only complaints I've seen are that it's hard to stack up to 5 on easy mobs that die too fast, or in PvP where other players are avoiding letting you get a huge burst on them. That sure looks like "working as intended", to me.

[Burnwild]

Give the totems LEGS! They must embrace evolution into little tiki-men!

[Oneleg]

the debuff needs to change into a buff that is applied to the shaman, and as long as the fire totem is active we get the damage bonus applied to LL. No more waiting for 5 stacks which OMG just happens to be the same amount of time that it takes for LL to refresh. No more issues with changing targets, seeing as you still have to wait for the LL cooldown anyway.

I played a rogue for several years when I first started playing WoW, we had that neat thing where the combo points didnt go away when you changed targets, then they made it so that they were removed when you changed, now guess what, they are going back afaik.

Enhance needs the same thing, where ST is our combo point builder, and LL is our evis, we just need our combo points to not drop off until used.

[Cimento]

Seriously, if someone wants to make a point and discuss an enhancement's issue, you can't say:"reroll to another class" ... A Permanent ban would be very welcome in these cases.
Searing flames is a bugged talent and a pointless attempt from Blizzard to pull down our throats Lava Lash. Lava lash it's OK, but make it a 25% of our total dmg??? WTF!
I will put it simple and clean, gimme Lava Lash for MAIN HAND AND SCALE WF FOR 2H. I WILL NEVER POST AGAIN IF BLIZZARD DO THAT!

[Omanley]

You're still arguing that Enhancement mechanics "suck" because mobs die too fast to stack your Lava Lash to full potential.

kay, explaining (again). we're pretty much doing less damage if we're waiting for the full charges. because of this, we use it at the beginning of fighting a mob. the mob dies before before 2nd ll is up. if you had the stacks on yourself, you could unleash them at the beginning and kill the 2nd mob much faster. enh mechanics do not suck because mobs die to fast, because they do not die to fast for other classes, which are able to take their procs to the next mob. it's not about mob hp being to low, but enh mechanic being retarded.

Except that Rogue combo points are also target-specific, and they've learned to cope.

yes they are, but a rogue can rack up 4-5 cp's with 2 mutilates, that's 2 gcd's compared to 9 second+ rack up time for searing totem, you're not seriously trying to compare the two, are you?

You seem to be focused on PvP. Perhaps you should realize that stacking a debuff for a single ability isn't how any class typically works in PvP, regardless of how they work in PvE. Rogues, for instance, often launch finishers without 5 combo points. Maybe you should consider hitting Lava Lash and burning off the few charges you've got, rather than insisting you need to have that charged-up strength at all times.

Wrong. I took every aspect of the game into account, totem range happens to be more of a concern in pvp than in pve, hence my example of casters kiting you in pvp. and fact is: searing totem shows flaws in every aspect. Again you talk about rogues, but fact is: not every finisher deals damage. a kidney shot with 4cp instead of 5? who cares? it's 1 goddamn second stun less. but having a hard time to stack sf charges is the very core of our burst capability. a rogue still deals nice damage spamming mutilate and using cd for stun/s&d or w/e, we deal the greatest part of our pvp damage in ll now. And as i said: we're not designed around cp mechanics, rogues are. you can only bring rogues up and feral cats, cause no one except enh else has to put up with this shit. you have to admit both rg and feral have much more utility than enh, which makes it, again, much harder for us to stack those cp.

There is no problem. It's like a Shadow Priest having to pick between Mind Sear or single target DPS; Mind Sear isn't optimal unless there's at least 4-5 enemies in the pack.

yes there is. mind sear does retardedly high damage. fn/mt does NOT. just spamming this one spell will result in awesome aoe damage, but enh has to throw out his most powerful ability synergy out of the window, for which he has spend 5 talent points. also, you are comparing a caster with a melee. what the hell? why dont you take a warrior/ret/dk instead? do they have to sacrifice the biggest part of their single target damage just to aoe? NO! And rogues/ferals just spam one powerful ability, so they dont have to care about single target loss.

This isn't exactly unique to Enhancement. Learn when AoE is good, and when it's not.

Other classes: okay, there is three targets now, i'm aoe'ing now. Enh Shaman: okaaaay 10 mobs, i guess i can dumb my searing flame mechanic now.

I played Enhancement all through WotLK. I know the spec perfectly well. You can't make an argument that holds up on its own merits, so you're resorting to ad hominem attacks.

Well, what you wrote yourself "this is about enhance were talking about?" and "i dont see the problem in a mechanic that does not match with enhance at all and has more flaws than blizzard has dollars, 99% of the enhancmeent shaman comunity see it as the shit it is, but i dont get what you're talking about" clearly indicated you either dont know what you're talking about or are just trolling you're way through this thread.

Seriously, take a step back. You don't need 5 stacks of Searing Flames to hit Lava Lash. Just like Elemental Shaman don't need 9 stacks of Lightning Shield to use Fulmination.

Elemental can take fulmination to the next target we cant. Again you are comparing melee to caster, again you refuse to take every flaw into account. If you are unable to stack it to max, why not reduce the number of maximum stacks then? Why dont we give it 300 stacks so you can save it up till the end of the boss, where you are finally unleashing a 9 million lava lash? Do i have to spell it out? To many charges!

In PvP, you're going to be better off taking what increased burst you can get, in both cases. Against easy mobs that die quickly, the same is true. You already have a vastly buffed Lava Lash that already hits fairly hard without the Searing Flames buff. We used Lava Lash before this buff, despite having fewer free GCDs.

/facepalm. Okay. You level your way to lvl 85 from lvl 80. You are unable to make use of 5 stacks while leveling except you are holding of ll for it's 5 stacks, you are often unable to stack it to max in pvp because of permanent totem kiting/stomping, you are unable to stack it to max in heroics because trash dies to fast and you obviously wont have it during aoe' ing. so the 5 stacks pretty much only come into play in raid boss fights. AND YOU STILL DONT GET WHY IT'S THE GREATEST SHIT THEY'VE EVER IMPLEMENTED?!

If you dislike the spec so much, why not change specs? You've got two other options, neither of which revolves around this mechanic.

Why dont you think of an actual argument? This question is as old as the game and has be answered hundereds and thousands of times. I like the enhancement tree, but i dont like it being gimped. I'm a melee shamn and always will stay as one. Some have no problems going ele/resto, i have. It's just not for me. Doesn't mean i dont have the right to complain about a fail mechanic when i see it. And what if as soon as you respec, your new spec gets an shitty mechanic again?

[Endus]

kay, explaining (again). we're pretty much doing less damage if we're waiting for the full charges. because of this, we use it at the beginning of fighting a mob. the mob dies before before 2nd ll is up. if you had the stacks on yourself, you could unleash them at the beginning and kill the 2nd mob much faster. enh mechanics do not suck because mobs die to fast, because they do not die to fast for other classes, which are able to take their procs to the next mob. it's not about mob hp being to low, but enh mechanic being retarded.

This is only an issue if we need those stacks to effectively kill things.

I am disputing that this is in any way the case.

you have to admit both rg and feral have much more utility than enh, which makes it, again, much harder for us to stack those cp.

And their CP are much more critical and necessary to their basic rotation.

Searing Flames isn't absolutely necessary. It's a bonus. Sure, you can't get it off in PvP at full very often. Elemental shaman can't often charge up Fulmination to full, either, since being hit loses a charge. That's what brings in the "outplay your opponent" part of PvP. Part of that is knowing how to stack up charges and prevent them avoiding that, and knowing when to pop them early because you need to.

Well, what you wrote yourself "this is about enhance were talking about?" and "i dont see the problem in a mechanic that does not match with enhance at all and has more flaws than blizzard has dollars, 99% of the enhancmeent shaman comunity see it as the shit it is, but i dont get what you're talking about" clearly indicated you either dont know what you're talking about or are just trolling you're way through this thread.

See, this is why I can't take you seriously. You use hyperbole as if it were punctuation, and you make up statistics as if your imaginary numbers had any basis in reality.

I'm perfectly willing to discuss this like a rational human being, but you need to meet me halfway.

/facepalm. Okay. You level your way to lvl 85 from lvl 80. You are unable to make use of 5 stacks while leveling except you are holding of ll for it's 5 stacks, you are often unable to stack it to max in pvp because of permanent totem kiting/stomping, you are unable to stack it to max in heroics because trash dies to fast and you obviously wont have it during aoe' ing. so the 5 stacks pretty much only come into play in raid boss fights. AND YOU STILL DONT GET WHY IT'S THE GREATEST SHIT THEY'VE EVER IMPLEMENTED?!

The only places DPS matters, really, is PvP and boss fights. You aren't going to convince me you need a massive buff to be able to do solo quests/grinding, or 5-man trash. Beyond the fact that our DPS is lagging behind for reasons entirely unrelated to this issue.

I'm also not seeing why you can't pop it early for a partial damage boost in those situations. You're acting as if anything less than 5 stacks is nothing. That's patently false.

Is the mechanic as awesome as it could be? No. But it's not as broken as you're making it out to be, either. And acting like Searing Flames kicked your puppy and slept with your girlfriend doesn't make your arguments hold greater weight.

[Gray_Matter]

Or roll a new character of a different melee class, whose mechanics you enjoy.

I have, feral druid which is a load of fun.

Seriously, I can understand complaining about bad Searing Totem AI. I don't understand complaints about this mechanic, which by all accounts is working exactly as designed.

Just because something works as intended, it doesn't make the mechanic sound. If they elem a lightning bolt that only hit at 5 yard and it worked as designed, would that make the mechanic sound?

We are complaining because we don't like the design, not the implementation. The mechanic is certainly a contributing factor to our problems at the moment. I contributes to our problems with movement boss fights.

[Omanley]

This is only an issue if we need those stacks to effectively kill things.

I am disputing that this is in any way the case.

maybe not, but still this will cost several seconds per mob, which will ammount to hours when leveling.
especially when leveling from lvl1 to 85, you will spend a lot of time thinking that this mechanic is wasted when leveling, which is a shame and does not have to be.

And their CP are much more critical and necessary to their basic rotation.

Hence no comparison between rg/feral and enh should be made, which you clearly did.

Searing Flames isn't absolutely necessary. It's a bonus.

Rather than a bonus, i'd call it a bother. Ask the majority of the great windfury brotherhood (lol), and see how many think of it as a bonus. Enhancement was totally shackled down by rng overkill (with msw being at the top) and when blizzard finally makes it's move to fix that they give us this pice of sh*t.

Sure, you can't get it off in PvP at full very often. Elemental shaman can't often charge up Fulmination to full, either, since being hit loses a charge.

Unlike enhancement, which did't have one before ll, elemental does not lack burst abilities. overload and lavaburst prove awesome burst abilities long before we heard of fulmination. Having our only really good way of burst damage so clunky isn't comparable to 1/3. Also you are right, fulmination is easily countered (to easily in my opinion) but what does it matter to enhance? Are you really trying to justify our fail by pointing at flaws of other classes' designs?

That's what brings in the "outplay your opponent" part of PvP.

Not nearly correct. Wow pvp is pretty simple if you get down to the core. Casters/Range try to keep their distance through kiting, to not get pummeled by melee and interrupted. Melee try to close the distance to be able to attack and hinder the caster from actually casting with interrupts.
But enhancement is even hindered from being a threat in melee by casters simply perma stomping totems,m instead of kiting them like other melees. This is not outplaying, this is exploiting a crappy design flaw of blizzard. Ever experienced how shamans (especially enhancement and elemental) are the first to be focused in every bg? because they are the by far most easiest countered class. With sf mechanic blizz did nothing to add another reason to make shaman the first victim again.

See, this is why I can't take you seriously. You use hyperbole as if it were punctuation, and you make up statistics as if your imaginary numbers had any basis in reality.

okay, my bad. actually it's less then 1% who likes this mechanic. You are the 2nd (claimed) enhancer who
zhinks this is mechanic is actually a good idea. If you unlike imaginary numbers, just go with 99.xx%, okay? Hyperboling? Yeah i am. And? If that's the only way for people to take notice, i resort to that ocassionally. Doesn't change that my point is correct though.

I'm perfectly willing to discuss this like a rational human being, but you need to meet me halfway.

Halfway where? I've gone with this mechanic through questing, dummy testing, raids, instances, duels and battlegrounds. the only place i haven't had a chance yet to test it in is arenas (where i fear it will come out worst). Are you suggesting i meet you at the only point where this mechanic actually works flawlessly, in a turret fight like saurfang? Look, i'm not trying to make you look like a fool or something, i just dont get how anyone can possibly think of this mechanic of original, or even fun.

The only places DPS matters, really, is PvP and boss fights. You aren't going to convince me you need a massive buff to be able to do solo quests/grinding, or 5-man trash. Beyond the fact that our DPS is lagging behind for reasons entirely unrelated to this issue.

Your's, but not others opinion. Those people going for powerleveling as fast as possible wont use enhancement for that, because it's design is incompatible with leveling efficiency. And dps is not a matter of battle grounds, burst is. And exactly that's the reason we are better of now then before 3.5, because even an unempowered ll can hurt. this is dependable burst we needed and want. still, we are not able to really utilize it. this is not an error in the lava lash ability itself, but sf's role as a stacker. And our dps IS also lagging behind because of this. Needing a long ramp up time will cost you damage. Time and time again. Especially in targets that dont live long, you will always feel it when you are unable to get that stacked ll out before it dies. That is not fun! And what's not fun should be thrown away.

I'm also not seeing why you can't pop it early for a partial damage boost in those situations. You're acting as if anything less than 5 stacks is nothing. That's patently false.

This i dont get. I said several times that were pretty much forced to do exactly that. We are denied to make use of the sf stacking, because we dont have the luxury of thosae 9+ seconds, and that's stupid.

Is the mechanic as awesome as it could be? No. But it's not as broken as you're making it out to be, either. And acting like Searing Flames kicked your puppy and slept with your girlfriend doesn't make your arguments hold greater weight.

I've listed 10 arguments why it is crap. Name me one game mechanic as weak as this and i give in. If you did fail to read my 2nd post in this thread, feel free to do so now.
The previous king of stupid game mechanics was shamans totem system, but as this very new enh core mechanic is tied to one of those sticks, it's the clear winner of the golden crapheap.

[Endus]

We are complaining because we don't like the design, not the implementation. The mechanic is certainly a contributing factor to our problems at the moment. I contributes to our problems with movement boss fights.

It's not that simple, with Searing Totem. It's only a hindrance if the boss needs to get moved out of the totem's range, not if you move.

Most fights, you're moving to avoid AoE and such, but the boss is relatively static. This mechanic would be a benefit, for those fights, since it keeps stacking up while you run.

For example, Rotface, when you get a slime on you; you run out to hand it off, your totem is ticking away on the boss. Or Professor Putricide, it keeps ticking on the Professor while you burn down a slime. Lich King, and spreading out for Defile. Blood Queen, with any of the several mechanics that cause you to move.

I can think of more fights where Searing Totem ticking away is a bonus, than a negative. Sure, it's not useful for, say, Gunship, or chasing after the Blood Princes, and the trash on Valithria dies quickly enough it wouldn't be much of a factor, but overall, it seems like a boost for the majority of boss fights. It's only those where the boss is required to be moved constantly and somewhat randomly that you may have to recast more often.

And even for those, it's still a better mechanic for single target than Magma Totem every 20 seconds was. Assuming they fix its targeting AI, since I freely acknowledge that something IS fubar, with that. Even as Elemental, I'm seeing it decide to not attack bosses I've got Flame Shocked until I recast the totem, or move it slightly.

Also you are right, fulmination is easily countered (to easily in my opinion) but what does it matter to enhance? Are you really trying to justify our fail by pointing at flaws of other classes' designs?

I'm pointing out that every class has weaknesses, by design, because without weaknesses, you're overpowered.

And dps is not a matter of battle grounds, burst is. And exactly that's the reason we are better of now then before 3.5, because even an unempowered ll can hurt. this is dependable burst we needed and want.

Exactly.

In 3.3.5, nobody was claiming that Shaman were completely borked and terrible and ruined. The mechanical changes in 4.0.1 are an improvement, in theory, but the numbers aren't holding up, as Blizzard has acknowledged.

So why are you claiming the mechanics are borked and terrible and ruining the class, when you're also admitting they're an improvement over 3.3.5?

The previous king of stupid game mechanics was shamans totem system, but as this very new enh core mechanic is tied to one of those sticks, it's the clear winner of the golden crapheap.

So . . . you don't like playing a Shaman.

We're based on totems. That's our "thing". Saying they're a stupid game mechanic is like playing a Druid and saying shapeshifting is a dumb way to do things, or complaining that a Hunter has to use a ranged weapon or a pet. If you don't like the core mechanic of the class, why are you playing that class?

Seriously, I'm not saying this in a "GTFO of my class" kind of sense, I'm just baffled as to why you'd confess that you hate the core structure of Shaman and the new paradigm of Enhancement and yet insist that playing an Enhancement Shaman is exactly what you want to do. It's like saying how much you hate pepperoni and you're lactose intolerant, but you really want to eat this pepperoni pizza, and why do they have to put pepperoni and cheese on it?

[Omanley]

It's not that simple, with Searing Totem. It's only a hindrance if the boss needs to get moved out of the totem's range, not if you move.

Most fights, you're moving to avoid AoE and such, but the boss is relatively static. This mechanic would be a benefit, for those fights, since it keeps stacking up while you run.

You actually made a good point here, but what about this?
-Searing flames/LL mechanic removed
-Lava Lash cooldown lowered to compensate for some of the damage lost (6sec)
-Stormstrike Damage buffed a little to compensate for some of the damage lost
-Maelstrom ppm buffed to compensate for some of the damage lost

there you have it, dps rotations closed up, stupid sf gone, no op burst in pvp because we still cant unleash fully empowered ll on target (as empowerment is gone), no need for a totem stacking charges while we move.

easy sollution to many design flaws, satisfied players. i rather have good overall damage with several good damage abilities and playstyle than a once every 10 seconds oooooh moment and sucky dps or balancing issues.

I'm pointing out that every class has weaknesses, by design, because without weaknesses, you're overpowered.

Like frost mages? hunters? rogues? warlocks? non priest healers?
Dude, overpoweredness were always present and always will be. Blizzard equalizes overpoweredness with balance nowadays, didn't you know that? I remember a saying of a blizz dev (was it gc?) before wotlk launch that every class should feel OP when they reach 80. They will continue to design in that direction in cataclysm. Just not with shaman. It's actually hilarious that you're pulling elemental into it, because shamans are are the only ones having to steadily stack their shit up (fulmination, maelstrom weapons, searing flames). What's this about? Why do only we have to steadily stack stuff?

Exactly.

In 3.3.5, nobody was claiming that Shaman were completely borked and terrible and ruined. The mechanical changes in 4.0.1 are an improvement, in theory, but the numbers aren't holding up, as Blizzard has acknowledged.

Wrong. wrong. wrong. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3y3QoFnqZc wrong. There were many complains. Many were about why we weren't allowed to do warrior/feral/dk/ret like dps, although they were melee dps hybridclass specs just like us. Enhancement were at the bottom of the dps barrel in raids, and one of THE underdog specs in arenas throughout wotlk, because it was retardedly hard to find teammates good enough to make up for your own lacking pvp viability. Also, i will not claim that being gcd locked was good. Changes like static shock not consuming ls orbs were among the things i wished for, because it was retarded to have to refresh a buff that is supposed to last 10 minutes very second you have nothing to do because the robs are consumed so fast. Howeve,r there is a difference between changing our rng-locked playstyle to a filled rotation than to a halffull rotation with nothing left to do for the other half.

So why are you claiming the mechanics are borked and terrible and ruining the class, when you're also admitting they're an improvement over 3.3.5?

I NEVER said the mechanics were an improvement. I said it was good that lava lash does actually hurt now and that our dmg is not as clustered as it was is all. Dont put words in my mouth.

So . . . you don't like playing a Shaman.

I like it and hate it, like most shamans. Never had something you liked and hated at the same time?
Enhancement is like a veeeeeery bad beer which you grew up with as a teenager and cannot leave alone. But you'll eventually have enough of it and start to barf ( or, in our case, complain first, and do the barfing later, at blue posts )

We're based on totems. That's our "thing".

It was. It's not anymore. Pve Buff totems were unique which varranted their penalty of being a totem. All of our buffs were transferred to a more convinient format: auras. Every class has those now, only we are still gimped by them. If not for searing totem, i wouldn't even bother putting totems down anymore, true story. Blizzard even goes as far as nerfing/altering/removing our pvp totems in a approximately 6 months rythm to keep them from actually being interesting.
-grounding nerfed in classic to not being left standing after a non dmg spell.
-cleansing removed with 4.0 (reason, it was a totem actually doing something, which isn't apparantly what blizzard wants and likely the reason why they remove tremor/earthbind with the next major patch (i'm taking bets now, who's gonna bet?)
-earthbind =>earthern power talent nerfed, because enhancement started to be really good in arenas. beastmaster, our partner spec in our only viable comp was obviously nerfed as well (god forbid rmp gets beaten)
-stoneclaw. was improved now, but still does not really deserve to be a totem. it's taunting mechanic doesn't match a non tanking class, it's totem shielding cant be used on the totems actually needing protection (earthbind and tremor), and the dmg absorb on the caster could very well be put on a normal selfspell
-fire nova totem changed to a spell, talented stun removed.

- Saying they're a stupid game mechanic is like playing a Druid and saying shapeshifting is a dumb way to do things, or complaining that a Hunter has to use a ranged weapon or a pet. If you don't like the core mechanic of the class, why are you playing that class?

Druids shapeshifting is not nearly as central as you think, because most of the time, you stay in that form the whole time. Also, shapeshifting is veeery powerful, as you can continually switch out of snare/root, are immune to polymorph, it#s instant and no cd. Nothing to actually fix here.
Totems themselves arent bad as a mechanic, but blizzard has left that mechanic alone since vanilla and has never made any real improvements. putting down 4 totems at once is nice and all, but it didn't make them as fun as they were. I'd rather put my totems down on at a time knowing they really have an impact (such as earthern power dispelling snare on my buddies, or tremor breaking roots). This is also a very often heard question. I like shaman and totems as a class and mechanic, but blizzard keeps ruining it more and more. Blizzards intent "may" have been to make totems more exciting again with ll, and that itself is fine, but with linking it with our singe target dps rota they made a big mistake.

[Leki]

Wow this thread kept on moving I see ^_^

Anyway, I must say that at one point Endus made me think more positively about LL, not in PvP though. However now I must admit his posts are becoming more short sighted and irritating. Look shamans are not a combo point type spec... We are not, just no fgs. We have a talent that was just implemented and changed the way we play due to some smart arse in the dev team.

All this talk about rogues is infuriating tbh, rogues rampup time for CP's is way faster than ST and was a class (CLASS) mechanic since day one. Shamans mechanics are not... NOT THE SAME! Why?

a) We depend on a static 5hp totem for ramp up.

b) The stupid totem does it's own thing.

c) Regarding PvP those "Combo Points" as some of you cool kids like to put it can be dispelled, and god knows how some folk love to dispel (me included).

d) Rogues got redirect, so can place the CP's on another target. Ferals atleast can use a finisher AND instant cast at 5CP (Lol @ MW when you can have that instead).

So what I guess some of you were trying to say is that we should be happy with a mechanic from other classes that is a below par imitation. Also just because we can use LL without the SF stacks that doesn't mean we should be happy with that. It's 100% damage you lose fgs. All that shows is how much blizzard is ramming this crap down our throats.

Although if this was to stay then I have to agree with what someone else posted that the stacking buff to LL should be on us and let the SF DoT do it's thing on the target. Wouldn't hurt to Drastically increase the searing bolt damage to, maybe up it by 100% or so. Then atleast you would feel a little happier about dropping it.

This is just my 10988317487936013 pennies